Who here prefers return of the jedi over empire?

Who here prefers return of the jedi over empire?

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ANH>ESB>ROTJ>RO>ROTS>TPM>TFA>AOC

Aye

I'll admit, empire is more consistently good throughout, and ROTJ has the weakest moments of the 2, but it also has the best moments in the whole saga. The opening plays to the fun adventurous side of the first film and all the stuff with the lukes journey appeals to the darker parts of 5. Also I like the fact that Luke got to show some of his deeper emotional side in this and we got to see him grow

The first half of Jedi involving Jabba's Palace and Han's rescue is my favorite Star Wars movie.

Everything after that is just kind of okay.

I love the tone and the setting, when I was a kid I used to look at the Jabba's Palace cross-section every day and imagine all the horrible things happening inside. I loved that vindictive robot that tortured the gonk droids for no reason (though I wonder how they could even feel pain).

Me, just because of Luke though. Watching him just be so confident and strong strolling into Jabbas palace in the all black was great, and then of course the green lightsaber he had which is still my favorite and the first time I saw a non blue or red one. We got to see him progress and evolve so much since episode 4. He kills so many people in this one and his beat down of vadar was so intense.

>being that contrarian
what, you must also think Jackie Brown is GOAT Tarantino movie and that sort of crap.

Not OP but Jackie Brown is probably the only Tarantino work besides Inglorious Basterds that deserves its praise

ROTJ>ESB>ANH>ROTS>RO>TPM>AOTC>TFA

Jackie Brown is so good that I refuse to believe Tarantino had anything to do with the script.

My 12 year old self.

Return of the Jedi is the most rewatchable film of the OT by far

Luke/Vader/Emperor is my favorite segment of the entire series but I just can't bring myself to enjoy the entire film more than Empire

I think Empire is the better made film but I enjoy watching Jedi more then Empire.

>ANH: favorite
>ESB: best
>ROJ: one I always want to watch
It has some amazing parts and now that I'm older I love Luke and his arc. I hope they don't fuck his character up more than they did in TFA.

It's my favorite Star Wars film.

I'm a sucker for series that end on a perfect note.
ROTJ did that for the saga. So I do actually enjoy it more than ESB even if V is objectively better.
Then TFA had to fuck it all up.

I do.

I liked it over Empire Strikes Back as a kid just because it's more exciting. Then, for years, I was told how Empire was the best film of the OT and how it was so dark and so deep and how Return of the Jedi was just for kids, so I kind of wavered.

But ultimately, I would much rather watch Return of the Jedi over Empire Strikes Back. It's not even close. The space portions of the Battle of Endor are probably the most exciting thing in the OT besides the trench run.

>Luke/Vader/Emperor is my favorite segment of the entire series

I just can't enjoy this part of the movie as much as I'd like because all of the switching to and from the action on th

It was A New Hope but with ewoks. Even the Vader/Luke duel was shittier than Empire's.
If you liked Jedi the best, you're probably a prequel apologist.

Not gonna be many. It's nowhere near as good on any objective scale. You have to be a literal child or complete idiot to honestly prefer it.

Luke's plan to save Solo is so retarded and far-fetched it turned me off for the rest of the movie.l

Absolutely. Empire is just a fucking bore honestly. I take ROTS over it too.

IV>VI>VII>RO>III>V>II>I

me
empire bored the hell out of me as a kid. the space stuff is great but cloud city is just one big snoozefest, especially after the first time you've seen it. Sure, it elevated the characters, but it's not fucking Hamlet or something, there's not THAT much depth.

b8

The Ewok on Stormtrooper kills just look lame, but the numbers are pretty realistic since the ewoks always swarm. Their kills on the AT-ST's are legit though.

>Empire is just a fucking bore

Really? Do you REALLY think that? Have you actually compared the two? Empire has more action and excitement than Jedi by far. Jedi literally has two exciting sequences before the final battle/s. It takes like 30 some minutes to get to jabba's sail barge. And then you get the speeder bike chase when they first get to Endor. That's fucking it. The rest is mindlessly wandering around jabba's palace, hanging with the rebels or watching teddy bears speak gibberish. No fucking thanks.

Empire takes less time to get to the battle of hoth and follows it up directly with the asteroid field chase. And then it's back and forth between luke being trained and Han and Leia being chased around space non stop with little breaks here and there. Also the best saber battle and the escape from Bespin.

Not to mention the dialogue and banter in Empire is the only good writing in the whole franchise. The characters suck in Jedi.

jedi builds tension and defused it through action scenes. empire builds tension and defuses it in a battle lost by the hero. it's not a complete movie, there is no satisfying catharsis. jedi is the happy ending.

None of that makes it a less exciting film. Not everyone is just looking for a happy ending to tie shit together m8.

pretty much this

powergap after ROTS

>there is no satisfying catharsis

Better writing, better direction, better acting and better pacing. Pretty satisfying to me compared to boring teddy bear scenes and a rehash of the death star.

I'd take ESB over ANH but otherwise this is accurate.

see that's the thing, people have been tood empire is the good one for so long at they agree because they're SUPPOSED to. what's the point of a fucking star wars movie? I'll take rewatchable entertainment over character drama any day.

This. I know so many people, myself included, who preferred ROTJ until some time in middle school and it suddenly clicked that Empire was superior.

Jedi is a snoozefest. The best part is the confrontation with Vader, The Emperor and Luke and even then The Emperor does nothing to tempt Luke. The only thing he hangs over his head is to use his anger and this will supposedly turn him evil. Then Luke snaps and uses his anger... but just says "no" to The Emperor in the end. Bravo Lucas.

it's not exciting after the first watch
literally the only time I think "I'd sure like to watch empire" is between watching ANH and Jedi
I'll give you the other three, but the pacing is not that great. the movie drags, if it had such great pacing people would rewatch it more

ESB=>ROTJ>ANG>>>>ROTS>>>>>>>>>>TFA>>>AOC>>RO>>>>>>>>>TPM

TPM is the best of the prequels

I do.

Empire is more of "accomplishment" as a film perhaps, but people play up the significance of the Yoda scenes and the Darth Vader duel. Both are atmospheric as hell, and the DV duel is fantastically tense too, but the Dagobah section functions as character-establishment for Luke and world-building for the Jedi, and builds up the significance of the "final battle", it's not some "philosophical treatise", it's mumbo-jumbo about space magic, and it's not "kino" either, given that it's a grey foggy swamp set. Then the battle with Darth Vader pulls the rug out from under the sense of "ending", and the story's catharsis only comes in ROTJ, which is ultimately very satisfying thanks to what was established in ESB.

So in that sense ROTJ could be said to be "leaning" on ESB, but I don't think that's something that undermines either film, more of a point in both their favours, perhaps, since ESB maximises tension and ROTJ maximises catharsis.

I'd say the least
the whole movie is basically hype up to the final Throne Room scene
ESB is most rewatchable, since it jumps right into action kinda, and ANH is second most rewatchable
i'd say ROTS is also rewatchable, but it's a shit movie
i'd only say that TPM is completely unwatchable

>but the pacing is not that great. the movie drags

Like I said before, Empire balances out the excitement better. Having the battle of hoth lead right into the asteroid field chase and then having Han and Leia being pursued for a long time after that. It allows for them to cut to something exciting when the Dagobah scenes star to get slow. And then when the Han and Leia stuff slows down you get deeper into Luke's training and stuff like Luke facing Vader in the cave. Then the twist of Lando working with the Empire.

In Jedi it's pretty dry on Endor after the speeder chase and there's not much to balance it out with.

ESB > ROTJ > ANH > RO > TFA > prequels can suck a dick.

HAHA YEAH! Fag probably doesn't think boot camp is the best part of Full Metal Jacket either!

ANH is the only good OT movie

fuck yeah. i thought i was the only one who prefers ROTJ over ESB. mainly cuz childhood but still, its a fuckin amazing conclusion.

you can use the exact same argument to claim that TPM is a masterwork of pacing. and I'm not claiming that RotJ has masterful pacing, but it does build and release tension twice. in empire there aren't any really rewarding action high points. the rope trick on hoth is bland and impersonal. the vader reveal at cloud city is too abrupt, the vader fight is gross and depressing. when luke is on dagoba you practically forget where all the other characters are.
most of the film is character development, and once you know the characters you don't need to see it again. you want to see them doing cool stuff. and that's not empire, it's a very expositional movie.

PATRICIAN TASTE HERE

V > RO > IV > VI > VII> III > I > II

>you can use the exact same argument to claim that TPM is a masterwork of pacing

No you can't. TPM doesn't do what Empire did by cutting to and from exciting stuff. Once you get to Tatooine it's boring as fuck except perhaps the pod race which IMO is dull as hell as well.

There's also the Coruscant segment which is perhaps the dullest and most out of place segment in any movie ever even remotely aimed at kids.

>most of the film is character development, and once you know the characters you don't need to see it again. you want to see them doing cool stuff.

Holy shit you sound like a kid. Also, I'd argue the characters do cooler stuff in Empire than they do in Jedi.

>the rope trick on hoth is bland and impersonal.
nigga wut the fuck

anybody who takes empire as a serious film seems like a kid to me tbph. it's a pulpy scifi serial. the only worth it has to me is entertainment. and empire is simply not very entertaining.
>cooler stuff in empire
the speedbike scene in jedi is cooler than anything in empire
but now you're making exactly the same argument I made about empire. it doesn't matter whether you like the exciting stuff, the point is just switching between exposition and small action set pieces is not inherently good pacing.

his copilot on hoth is literally not a character. some schlub we don't know or care about. there are no stakes and we don't care about luke anymore because he's already died and been resurrected. so it's an escort mission with no real tension. yawn.

>anybody who takes empire as a serious film seems like a kid to me tbph

Serious film? All I'm saying is that it's better than Jedi. I enjoy both. No need to get butthurt.

>the speedbike scene in jedi is cooler than anything in empire
Once again, it would be nice for you to give reasons for your opinions. Kinda like how I elaborated on why the pacing and amount of action in Empire helps the film flow better.

>but now you're making exactly the same argument I made about empire. it doesn't matter whether you like the exciting stuff, the point is just switching between exposition and small action set pieces is not inherently good pacing.

But it's certainly not bad pacing. Obviously you don't have to change your mind about this but I think most would agree that keeping a nice balance between building characters, continuing the plot and throwing in a nice dose of excitement is better than just long drawn out segments that do little to further the story and have little to no excitement.

You bringing up TPM shows you clearly miss the point since TPM doesn't do that either. So I really have to question if you even understand what we're talking about here.

Well, it was based on an Elmore Leonard book, and parts of the dialogue are unchanged. I feel like Tarantino was trying to progress at that point, and was embracing adulthood. Then he wound up regressing later.

Empire is the best.
But i prefer it to New hope for sure.

Empire is the more consistent movie, but the Luke and Vader scenes in Jedi beat out any single scenes in Empire for me. Even the Luke/Vader duel/reveal.

Not sure why but ESB never sat well with me.

Right off the bat Luke is almost killed by some random animal, then Han randomly saves him and everyone hangs around in a base for a bit.
Even when imperials attack Luke gets shot down almost right away and apart from that no main character participates in the combat, they just exit the situation and from then on it gets worse.

Han and Leia are stuck in some asteroid (which btw has normal gravity, even when they're walking outside of the falcon and they just sit there for a bit doing nothing.

Luke drops onto a swamp planet and meets Yoda and the passage of time now gets screwy since it's not clear how long he "trains" there. Feels like it's maybe a couple of days but it could be more.
Meanwhile Han and co. reach the Cloud city for no clear reason since they must know about 500+ other rebel hideouts they might want to check out sooner, but okay. I can't remember if they were given a reason to go there at all or it's just plot contrivance.

Luke conveniently has to go meet them there and we get the iconic Luke vs Vader scene.

Apart from that there's little else happening in the entire movie. Sure we get a lot of characterization for Vader and we see how imperials conduct their business but it feels very small.

Han's "arc" in particular feels frustating to me.
He escapes Hoth, hangs around in an asteroid a bit then arrives at Cloud city and gets captured. That's it.
Luke escapes Hoth, goes to a swamp, trains a bit and then he loses to Vader. That's it.

idk, the whole thing just doesn't feel enough.

Return Of The Jedi is the best Star Wars movie, and it's all because of this shot with the score when Luke and Darth Vader finally fight at 3:32
youtube.com/watch?v=jDs2UGCP2Fk

I'm really not butthurt buttbuddy, it's just I find the idea of you calling another star wars fan a kid amusing. these are not grownup movies. they're light escapist fantasies. to enjoy them is to let yourself be a kid again.
TPM jumps between different plotlines more than empire. so does rotj for that matter. I find your justification for empire's supposedly good pacing insubstantial.
the action sequences in rotj are directed ina much more exciting way. there's a reason people remember the luke/vader fight from VI more than V. the jabba cruiser scene is like a rube goldberg machine, it's beautiful and complex and also very clear in its presentation. empire has nothing to compare with this. I mean look, I LIKE the way it looks. the lighting is far superior, and the elevation of tone from ANH is amazing. but kirsher was obviously not into big action sequences and spectacles of the type that put star wars on the map.

>I find the idea of you calling another star wars fan a kid amusing.

I said you sound LIKE a kid because you stated that Empire is hurt by too much character development and not enough cool stuff. That's typically how kids think about movies.

For me it's the spicy chicken sandwich

>when you watch the plinkett reviews once

Nice try bubs.

I'm trying to explain the mentality to you. but congratulations for demonstrating the mentality of empire fans who think they are elite film scholars for noticing dark themes and a smattering of passable dialogue.
piss off

Like I said. You're butthurt after a life time of feeling inferior for preferring the film that's considering "less great" that empire.

The irony is that I've actually given reasoning for why I think Empire has superior pacing and dialogue whereas you just say you think it's better. Oh and you said Empire has too much character development and not enough cool stuff.

Also I never said anything about "dark themes" which proves your issues here run deeper than just my opinions.

Buddy, you know it's ok for people to have different opinions right? You're literally trashing Empire and it's fans in order to stick up for Jedi. At least the other poster said he's cool with both, he just explained why.

you just trying to troll me now? boy, what a sucker I am for thinking you were actually going to back up your opinions and maybe even say something worthwhile. whatever

Since Sup Forums is full of retards, probably a lot of people do.

I was four when it released and I hated the shit out of it.

>what a sucker I am for thinking you were actually going to back up your opinions

Why would I back my opinions up when you didn't refute any of them?

this
/thread

How about explain what makes Jedi a better film than Empire so you two can actually have a discussion about the movies instead of insulting each other.

This actually.

it has the best empire-related scenes as well. right at the start or when the emperor arrives (plus that music) or the final space battle. I still think it's the best space battle of all time, can't think of any other movie at all that comes even close.

Apart from the Endor scenes it's a stellar movie.
>Han's rescue
>Emperor tempting Luke
>Rebel fleet getting BTFO
>Best lightsaber duel in the series
>Vader's redemption

Gr8 b8 m8, r8 10/10.

>Right off the bat Luke is almost killed by some random animal, then Han randomly saves him and everyone hangs around in a base for a bit.
>Even when imperials attack Luke gets shot down almost right away and apart from that no main character participates in the combat, they just exit the situation and from then on it gets worse.

Finally someone explained why the OT characters are well written and feel human and why the prequel mary sue super battle warrior wizard tank jedi characters are garbage

>with the asteroid field chase

That is one of the absolute worst part of the whole franchise.

>>Best lightsaber duel in the series
Oh God no. That fight has the best soundtrack but that's it.

Lukes right foot forward shuffling and baseball bat swings are fucking awful.

>RO below AOC
Do you want to know how I know you're retarded?

>tfw you are the only one who likes TPM

Where you born around or after it's release?

I like it also. I just appreciate it's nowhere near as good as much of the rest of the series. That and AOC, Lucas dropped a bollock big time.

Anyway the true list is.

V > IV > RO = ROTJ > ROTS > TFA > TPM > AOC

I like it as was born in 88. I do find though the most part, those who like it tend to be born in the 90s and later.

RotJ is my favourite SW film. I also enjoyed the prequels more than any of the Disney films.

It pains me to know Lucas got shafted by the world so hard when all he wanted to make were pulpy art films like Flash Gordon and Barbarella.

V > IV > R1 > VI > VII > III > I > II is the only objective answer.

at least he can find solace in all the millions he made out of it.

Billions.

What did he mean by this?

it actually isnt torture, the droid is cooling the hot iron with its coolant exhaust feet.

Out of the 3 movies it's my least favorite overall, but all the stuff involving Luke makes up for the rest of the movie

Putting Rogue 1 above Jedi is very audacious, I'd wait until it's been out longer and you've seen it a couple times before making a statement like that.

Nobody serious
Wrong, the lot of you

>Elder God tier
5
>Fucking amazing tier
4
>Good tier
7>R1
>meh tier
6
>bad tier
1>3
>unwatchable tier
2

>Empire has too much character development and not enough cool stuff.

This is basically the issue. In principle this shouldn't be a problem, but Star Wars is just so much better at doing 'cool stuff' and comparatively weak at providing interesting character motivation that this is actually a meaningful weakness. The plot of Empire is not so compelling that it makes up for how dull so much of it is.

>Lukes right foot forward shuffling and baseball bat swings are fucking awful.

Shhh, you'll trigger people who don't understand swordfighting.

Empire is the most over rated movie in the Star Wars saga.