Bash Rogue One for too many nostalgic references and nods to the original trilogy

>bash Rogue One for too many nostalgic references and nods to the original trilogy
>loved TFA

I can't understand this argument

that's because it doesn't make sense. Nobody understands it, disregard the RLM shills

TFA had characters to care about, I think that was the main point.

>tfa
>good characters
choose one

Characters were weaker in RO but almost everything else was better.

I cared more about K-2SO then I did the entire cast of TFA.

their review of the film was down the middle

he even said, your damned if you and damned if you dont

like a DC movie, if you like it, you like it
if you dont then you dont

the only thing that really bothered me was the score
i was hoping they mentioned it

they're called opinions

Thats because TFA came first duh

rouge one sucked

face it shills

This

How can people think
>Luke but now it's a girl!
>Vader but now he's a lil bitch!
>Han Solo but now he's spanish!
>whatever the fuck Finn was supposed to be!

were better characters than what we got in rogue one? Jyn's relationship with her dad was the first time I actually felt some serious drama actually worked in Star Wars. Both the scene of his message and his death were great imo.

I disagree with their opinion.
They're still my bestest internet friends.
We don't always have to agree you know.

>Jyn's relationship with her dad was the first time I actually felt some serious drama actually worked in Star Wars

Whether that is true or not, it is better than TFA.

The references to the OT were way better done in Rogue One, it got most of the little details down and felt very connected to the others, TFA was fucking shit and shallow at just about everything

they didn't love the force awakens because of nostalgia. they liked TFA because it was a competent movie.

in fact the thing they said was the weakest point was that it banked too much on nostalgia

Rouge 1 is only good to people who like the prequels

The music in Rogue One was 100 times better than TFA, John Williams is a fucking hack now

>b..but TFA sucked

quit being a fucking contrarian you fucking plebs

Why is rogue one good only for those who like the prequels?

> Vader on screen was like being in a porn theatre

The force awakens like that easy girl you banged in during the summer break after a dry spell.

Yeah you into her at the time, but when you run back into her next year you realised you were just fucking desperate at the time.

prequel lovers love the prequels because
>nostalgia for original star wars
>they actually think that star wars is a good dramatic film despite the drama being forced and the writing shit
>they need that nostalgia for lightsabers and other star wars things
>shitty dialouge and zero characterization

Rouge 1
>nostalgia for original star wars
>they actually think that star wars is a good dramatic film despite the drama being forced and the writing shit
>they need that nostalgia for lightsabers and other star wars things
>shitty dialouge and zero characterization

TFA's biggest flaw was the fact that it was terribly unoriginal. This was well documented and has been the general consensus since launch. Now that the hype has worn off and the dust has settled, people aren't afraid to give TFA the criticism it deserves.

The fact that TFA is ANH 2.0 hurts its lasting appeal.

No contrarian, TFA is bad, it's a shitty shallow marvel movie with star wars characters

>movies can't be fun or entertaining
>they need to super sophisticated like my dark and deep movies that are for my superior intellect

what a loser!

I don't get the hate for TFA. They were playing it safe, but it works as the start of the new trilogy.

>I can't understand this argument

RLM by and large is not made up of Star Wars fans, they appreciate the original trilogy as great fun movies, they made their name off of nitpicking and critiquing the prequels on a film basis, and they generally view the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm has a purely cold-heated corporate thing (fair). But they never approach the movies from the perspective of people that love the universe.

Rogue One is almost purpose built as a movie for fans, when RLM says something like "Oh and there's AT-AT's in this movie just to pander to nostalgia" They really don't care that in terms of the in-universe setting it makes perfect sense to have AT-AT's around and that a lot of star wars fans love that kind of shared universe continuity, same with seeing those Episode IV pilots, or star destroyers, or nebulon-B frigates or a whole host of other things.

To them Rogue One seems like just a string of references and callbacks and nostalgia nods because they really don't care about the shared universe being built, which is fine, that is one valid perspective. But it's confusing the shit out of a lot of people like OP because if you even kinda like Star Wars most of that shit in Rogue One feels pretty natural and fun.

but Rogue One had the least amount of lightsaber screentime of any Star Wars film.

In fact, it only had 1 force sensitive person featured in the entire movie, which was Darth Vader. The force was also a focus, but served as more of a background plot point rather than the main plot.

why though

With that logic wouldn't prequel lovers love TFA more than RO because it is basically a copy of ANH

>Only one force sensitive
Ahh, the blind chinese guy?

I know right? Both are 2/10 fanservice bullshit

>Jyn and her Papa
>Stick man and Gun man
>Cassian and QuipBot5000

There was more going on between these shit one dimensional characters in this one movie than most of the shit going on in the 7 saga films we have. I felt genuinely bad for most of these people even if I hardly knew them.

He was not force sensitive. He simply believed in the force. He was a Zealot, not a Jedi.

In the end, his faith in the force paid off.

This, although it's pure KINO compared to TFA

R1 had the worst characters by far lol.
even the shitty TCW series had better characters and that series sucks.
My dad is dying and they couldnt even pull any of my heartstrings on that.
Kung fu panda on the other hand.
jesus.

TFA only banked off of nostalgia so they could get fanservice shit. but had a plot and character that were competent

rouge 1's plot is literally nostalgia fanservice with no competent plot or characters

which is more of a crime
>nostalgia with a plot and characters
or
>nostalgia

R! is garbage, TFA is better

>Both the scene of his message and his death were great imo.

I didn't say that the characters weren't shit, I was saying that I could clearly understand the relationships between them and those relationships weren't that shit. Over the course of 3 prequels Lucas couldn't convince me that Anakin and ObiWan were "good friends". In 5 minutes I got that stick man and gun man had been good friends for decades and when stick man died (spoilers) I felt bad for gun-man because it was obvious how much he was hurting. I knew nothing about either of them because they were shit characters, but I could still feel bad.

Really I doubt Williams did much in terms of the soundtrack for VII.
The only remotely memorable tracks were Kylo's theme, and the March of the Resistance.

>competent plot
well yeah, not hard to do when you copy paste ANH's. I bet you think Eragon had a great plot too.

>Competent characters
Yeah when you write them to be perfect with no flaws

The plot of TFA was a copy of ANH and the only character that was good was finn since he wasn't a copy replacement for the old cast like rey was for luke and poe was for han

subtlety is lost on you friendo

He was force sensitive. Force sensitive people are born all over the galaxy. He just happened to be one of the ones that was never recruited by the Jedi temple, but rather did some informal training by himself. He literally says he feels a dark presence in the force around Cassian when he's about to snipe Jyn's dad. The dude was clearly force sensitive.

That's just it, they played it way too safe. That's the whole problem with TFA.

Instead of world building and showing how things have progressed over 30 years, they repeat ANH's plot, but with most of the plot being a shitter version of ANH's

Rey is a less likable version of Luke who didn't have to work for it as hard as Luke
Kylo is a shittier version of Vader
Snoke is a shittier version of Palpatine
Han is a much, much, much shittier version of Obi-wan
Poe is a shittier version of Han
Starkiller base is a shittier version of the Death Star
Maz is a shittier version of Yoda
The trench run is boring and anti-climactic

I honestly like Finn the best, because he was the most unique part of TFA. I'm staying optimistic about Episode VIII, but i'm expecting big changes. I hope its not just ESB 2.0.

Aaaaand you just prove their point

The Rogue One review is what I was expecting from their Force Awakens review, an honest look at the movie based solely on its own merit, not blinded by nostalgia pandering. I was really surprised how suckered-in they were last year with TFA.

What the fuck are you babbling about? I can't stand the prequels and thought R1 was great. They're very, very, very different.

Nice b8

Is there an argument that Rogue One isn't a movie blatantly made for fans? The better argument would be if it's a good idea for Disney to make films for the fans or not. All that I was saying is that if you are a Star Wars fan you likely enjoyed the movie, if you're an outsider it probably just looks like a conveyor belt of recycled shit.

Rey's character is fundamentally different from Luke's on basically every aspect. Luke was really just an average Joe who grew up living a boring, but relatively comfortable life. Rey is immediately presented as this badass suvivor girl.

I think Kylo's character is actually different from Vader. I think he's the only character I found interesting. Vader was intimidating and feared for the most part. Kylo is a poser. He's a tryhard. He doesn't need this black knockoff Vader suit, but he wears it cause he's insecure and he's compensating. I feel like he was the only character with anywhere left to go.

Poe is kind of similar to Han Solo. He's handsome and a good pilot, but seems to have more character traits to Luke honestly in the way that he seems to be a goody goody type of guy.

Finn had potential, but they botched it. He was the only character who had flaws and went through an arc. On the other hand, him being so ready to murder all his old Stormtrooper pals, despite him seeing a Stormtrooper dying being a major reason he turns, was confusing. Sloppy writing, if it was fine tuned he could have been a lot more interesting.

Not b8 fight me

The bar was set way the fuck lower for TFA than it was for Rogue One. All TFA had to do was be better than the Prequels. Rogue One had to match TFA's execution quality, be original, and satisfy the very diverse set of expectations that people had for the first "standalone" star wars movie.

I think most people were impressed by TFA because it was competently made kind of? and also because it was a carbon copy of the ANH. First reviews show that feeling. Then after a few months and maybe a rewatch or two, they all realized it was absolute derivative nostalgia pandering fanservice fucking nothing shit flick, and now with R1, arguably better although still pretty awful, they are reviewing it the way TFA should have been.

I am a Star Wars fan, but I have to admit that Star Wars is dead as shit, it will never be great again. The license will now be lifeless and saturated with all these movies being pumped out EVERY year

Where do you live?

I get what you're getting at. To put it more simply though, and maybe add a slightly more positive spin to it, prequel fans really value lore over story for the most part. They love what the prequels introduce moreso than they love the story the prequels tell. Rogue One is like Star Wars porn, it's jampacked with cool ships, weapons, troopers. It's story is very light but the movie expands on how the death star was built and how the rebel alliance and the empire function. On top of that this movie makes tons of reference to deeper cut Star Wars lore such as the animated television shows and the novels. I think what I learned about the Star Wars universe was more interesting than whatever the fuck was going on with Jyn Erso.

That escalated quickly

nice reddit meme dude i upvotted you and bookmarked your account, you're really moving up in the ranks kid...

Star Wars is the new Marvel, praised just because of being safe, ridden with comedic relief to cover how boring they actually are

Thanks mane

>listening to youtube critics
that was your first mistake

I think this is the point where it really sunk in that there's going to be a new Star Wars movie every year. It's hard not to get cynical.

Curious what they could have done to make it no "safe". I mean they already killed off all the characters they introduced. Safe would be them somehow making it off the planet. What did you want in R1? Torture scenes? Gore?

It did? Name some

what?

How does this make them shills? Both movies are disney.

Colorado, I have the high ground

Giacchino was on autopilot. One of his weakest scores.

TFA is the worst thing to happen to star wars ever

>Make decades-worth of EU content and lore completely meaningless because you want to do your own Shit in episode 7
>Proceed to just make a literal copy of episode 4

Not him but...

>BB-8

That's about it

>SHOUT STUFF IRONICALLY FOR MEMES AND UPBOATDS

Rogue One despite its flaws felt more like a Star Wars movie than anything we've had since the special editions in the late 90's. The designs were right, the costumes were right, the locations were right, it just failed a bit in the writing and had 2-3 "YO MAN CHECK OUT THIS EASTER EGG" moments too many. It's far from the catastrophe that were the prequels, and it was certainly a risky movie compared to TFA. I hope Disney keeps taking risks and maybe with one of those risks they'll land on something good.

i thought so too but i listened to it independent of the film and found it better than i'd thought. i don't think the score gelled/meshed with the film as it needed to. still for something written in like 4 weeks it could have been worse i suppose

>i like EU

wookipedia faggot please go

K2 > BB8

It's hilarious that you seem to think the EU "content" served any other purpose than selling shit to clueless nerds. Of course they don't want to touch that garbage when billions are on the line

your expectations for TFA were shit.

this movie sold itself as some spy thriller with antiheroes and provided none of that. its just the same star wars story told from a boring perspective

Not that user but the dozen or so times the old EU was actually good it was some of the best Star Wars content ever made, sadly there were about 900 times when it wasn't good at all in comparison.

I'd fucking kill for a tv series based on the x-wing novels.

Give it a few weeks, all you faggots will feel the same once your nostalgia goggles fall off.

>claim target audience is 35-39 year old bearded fat guys

>Sup Forums gets triggered

like pottery

>It's hilarious that you seem to think the STAR WARS served any other purpose than selling shit to clueless nerds.

The movie was originally promoted at comic con in the mid 70's, it's a film made by a flash gordon fan-fic writer for and audience of fucking nerds.

Probably because TFA actually built an interesting narrative with totally leaning on 'members

I feel like it's mostly due to them reviewing TFA right after they got out of the theater. They were still exhilarated where as they took a whole weekend for Rogue One to set in.

This has to be a shoop.

Jay never got this ripped.

Both movies were shit.

One movie had the Ip Man.

Yeah because at the time that was the one crowd that would be interested in a space adventure flick. But that was decades ago. The EU exists because they wanted more money from hardcore fans once the OT ended. Now it's much more bigger than that and there's absolutely no reason to appease EUfags because they'll pay to see the movies anyway because it says Star Wars on the box.

>watch Rogue One
>think eh...it's okay i would never watch it again...too much exposition
>see how all the people on here say R1 is the best star wars movie and better than TFA which was shit
>hmm i dont remember TFA that well and i thought it was okay too but maybe i got nostalgia goggles and it was horrific
>watch TFA
>holy shit this movie was better than i thought and way better than Rogue One.

Thanks for making me like Episode 7 now you fucking Rogue One faggots.

I think if Rogue One had better music and didn't have that pointless C-3PO + R2D2 cameo it would be much less polarizing. There was a lot of fan service in the movie but that one little cameo seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back for most people. And the lack of a memorable score makes the film feel a lot less engaging.

TFA was also the first new star wars in a long while, so there was a lot of hype going into it. Now its yearly and you can see it as just a movie.

same

i thought tfa was just ok but after watching rogue one, i realize i didn't give it nearly enough credit.

Reverse for me. Made me realize how stupidly OP Rey was. At least RO had the decency to make the ending realistic but TFA just had to let Rey win. I have no idea why they couldn't let Kylo win.

I liked Rogue One better because the British girl with bad acting fucking died in that one.

>"I don't want to see a war movie"
Look Rogue One was a boring piece of shit. If it was a war movie it'd be fucking great. Saving Private Ryan or Full Metal Jacket. Either would be kino. It needs racism and a male lead though. Sorry, these british chicks aren't proving they're badass or motivators.

TFA having a 92% on RT isn't the result of Disney shilling, it's a genuinely good movie

Yes I too loved Episode 4.

I think Rich is totally spot-on when he says that the "infinite story possibilities of the Star Wars universe" is total horseshit. Star Wars is not a superhero universe where you can write any kind of story that catches your fancy. Star Wars is a very specific thing, a fucking space opera. Not a war movie or whatever the fuck Rogue One was supposed to be.

Honestly, what defines Star Wars if not its pulp adventure roots? X-Wings and lightsabers?

If ANH was released today by a non-Mouse studio it'd probably have a lower score, prove me wrong

>interesting narrative
>who is rey? why was she left on not-tatooine? why does she speak wookiee? how did a 6 year old girl survive in the desert on her own, despite the fact that most 15 year olds can't feed themselves? why is she a pilot better than not-empire special forces pilots? why does she know how to perform a jedi mind trick? we're not allowed to know
>why does from-birth-brainwashed soldier finn suddenly betray the not-empire? guess it's not important
>who is snoke? we're not allowed to know
>who is lor-san tekka and how does he know kylo and leia? we're not allowed to know
>why did kylo ren betray luke? we're not allowed to know
>why did luke run away and hide, something completely out of character and inconsistent with the preceding 3 films? we're not allowed to know
>why does not-yoda have luke's lightsaber? we're not allowed to know
>why does the new republic oppose doing something about the rise of the not-empire? why is there a "resistance"? guess it's not important
>why does the not-empire oppose the republic? because it "acquiesces to disorder"? what does that mean? guess it's not important
>how did the not-empire build another, much larger death star? guess it's not important
>why was the destruction of not-coruscant visible from not-naboo? guess it's not important
>why does silver stormtrooper agree to disable the death star's shield? as a brainwashed, fanatically loyal soldier, shouldn't she have instead alerted the base to the rebels' presence, even if it meant sacrificing herself? guess it's not important
>why another death star at all? roj's use of the death star ii had been criticised for 30 years. whose idea was this?
>why does leia suddenly hug and admire rey despite having no idea who she is and having never seen her even once before in her life?
>why does rey friendzone finn? does she not like black guys? is she a lesbian?
>interesting narrative

Because they're fucking stupid. The only reason they give TFA a pass is because it came out first. After the prequels, Which Mike seems to think raped him, a halfway competent movie in the Star Wars universe came out. It pandered to Mike's love for the OT, and did it in a bland and inoffensive way.

TFA has much worse pandering. RLM went off about "AT-ATs REMEMBER THOSE? STAAAAAR DESTROYERS!" ehat the fuck do you expect in a movie set at the height of the Empire? Of course you're gonna see their spacecraft and weaponry.

A geriatric Han Solo regressing back to being a smuggler is far more pandering than all the AT-ATs in Rogue One.

Nah if an indie studio made it then it would get 100% on RT and every oscar

Exactly, if you make a Star Wars universe movie then it's never "Star Wars" faithful.

It's a fucking shit IP to be honest. Every movie needs to be a rehash of the previous. there's no endless possibility.