Isn't a clone army really unethical? I mean they're all essentially slaves/cannon fodder to the republic

Isn't a clone army really unethical? I mean they're all essentially slaves/cannon fodder to the republic

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KYS you mouse shilling kuk

they get paid in fush and chups and they have free counselors who listen to them whine about how much better they are than space australia, it's fine

How's that less ethical than having actual human beings as cannon fodder?

the clones don't have a choice

>taken from their parents at a young age
>forced into a religion they might not agree with
Just like jedi

yes of course its unethical

especially when droids are somewhat similar in terms of efficiency per unit and presumably much cheaper to produce

which is the reason why many Jedi simply deserted during the Clone Wars
they knew their cause was wrong

the way they sacrifice people who have no choice but to be born into servitude and probable death in war

watch the Star Wars Clone Wars - it's actually quite good (season 1 might be weakest but gets better in later seasons)

Yes it is.
You can add that they were basically the violent beasts of a corrupted galacticist government denying people their right to sovereignity and which crushed the planets wanting to divorce from a system they considered rotten, imperialism at best.

The Republic never was the "good side".

Why did nobody investigate where the clones came from?

>galaxy on the brink of war
>Palpatine says he wants to create an army
>Obi-Wan finds an army that's been grown in secret for like a decade, how convenient

Except neither thing you just said applies to clones, idiot.

>speedwatching

Those planets were never just after independence, though. They were led by a bunch of amoral bankers and businessmen interested in long-term profit. And of course the whole thing was being manipulated by a guy who wanted a massive war as part of a convoluted plan to take over the galaxy.

Don't forget that Padme was the one leading the opposition to creating an army, and the bounty hunter that was tasked with assassinating her was the template for the Clone Army. Who also happened to be the right hand man of Count Dooku.

I watched the whole thing, read a bunch of shitty EU books, even played that Jango Fett video game when I was a little kid. I remember the "Master Syfo-Dyas" explanation, but still, that's suspicious as hell. The Kaminoans tell Obi-Wan that another Jedi who died years ago just happened to put in an order for a massive clone army? Where did he get the money? Why is the genetic base of the clones a man who worked for the Sith? Why did Palpatine call for the creation of an army conveniently right after the clones were finished, despite the fact that nobody should have known the army even existed yet?

Yes.
Barris was right.

Damn... really makes me think...

It's not like they had a choice. Either use the army, or lose the war.

Unlike conscripts

You clearly didn't.
It was specifically stated that Master Syfo-Dyas was the one who ordered mass production of clones in secret, user.
The TV show goes into further detail with this showing that Syfo-Dyas and Dooku worked together on it.

>Where did he get the money?
The Republic paid for it when they bought the army.
>Why is the genetic base of the clones a man who worked for the Sith?
Pretty sure it was all part of their plan to lure Obi-Wan to Kamino, trick the senate into buying the clones and begin the clone war.
>Why did Palpatine call for the creation of an army conveniently right after the clones were finished
They knew they were fucked so they had to accept the clone army. Palpatine probably lied about "calling for creation" just so the public won't act suspicious.

They were the good guys?

I just realized that Kojima ripped off the "sped up aging" thing from Attack of the Clones.
MGS1, 2 and 3 were out and Snake was just a normal clone. Then after the star wars prequels, MGS4 came out and Snake had quick aging just like the Jango Fett clones (they grow up twice as fast as normal people)

>The TV show goes into further detail with this showing that Syfo-Dyas and Dooku worked together on it.
I only watched the movies and I figured Syfo-Dyas was an alter ego of Palpatine to hide who really ordered the clone army

>It was specifically stated that Master Syfo-Dyas was the one who ordered mass production of clones in secret, user.

I know, that's why I wrote that in my post. But where the hell did he get the money or the authorization for that?

>The Republic paid for it when they bought the army.

So the cloners embarked on this massive project a decade in advance with nothing but a "the Republic will pay you, honest" from a lone Jedi?

>Pretty sure it was all part of their plan to lure Obi-Wan to Kamino, trick the senate into buying the clones and begin the clone war.

No shit. But why aren't the Jedi more suspicious about this?

>Palpatine probably lied about "calling for creation" just so the public won't act suspicious.

Again, no shit. But surely at least one Jedi would have said something like "isn't it weird how the clone army got finished right when the Chancellor called for an army to be created and the war started"?

That's an actual thing that happens to clones because of the shortened telomeres in their DNA.

Nah, Syfo-Dyas was a real Jedi, killed by Dooku/Tyranus.

>But where the hell did he get the money or the authorization for that?
That was the point. They senate and the jedi council bitched about how he did it without their authorisation. He didn't pay for it, though. He basically ordered it then said don't worry, the Republic will pay for it.
>So the cloners embarked on this massive project a decade in advance with nothing but a "the Republic will pay you, honest" from a lone Jedi?
Pretty much. The guy foreseen the future, though, and knew the Republic would be in dire need for an army. Since he worked with Dooku and it was all part of Palpatine's plan, I assumed Palpatine paid for it in secret.
>No shit. But why aren't the Jedi more suspicious about this?
The jedi were suspicious about it but they had no choice but to fight in the war.
>But surely at least one Jedi would have said something like "isn't it weird how the clone army got finished right when the Chancellor called for an army to be created and the war started"?
They bought the whole facility that was still creating clones. It just happens that a bunch of clones were ready. It's not suspicious all at.

Clones are actual human beings user

Fuck your ethics.
Clones are property.

What if robots are sentinent?

>He basically ordered it then said don't worry, the Republic will pay for it.

Right, but why the hell did they agree to that? If a US Army colonel waltzed into Lockheed Martin's headquarters and said "I'm going need about 200,000 planes, don't worry, the government will pay you when they're done, make sure to build them in secret", do you think they would just do it?

>The guy foreseen the future, though, and knew the Republic would be in dire need for an army.

Lol, first of all, Syfo-Dyas had the shittiest foresight of all time if he saw the future and his conclusion was "we should make a clone army". And second, are Jedi visions valid in business transactions? "Hey, are you going to pay for this?" "Nah, I had a vision that the Republic will need it eventually, just get to work."

>Since he worked with Dooku and it was all part of Palpatine's plan, I assumed Palpatine paid for it in secret.

That would be even more suspicious. You're going to war with a coalition of bankers/investors/merchants led by one of the richest men in the galaxy, and you don't investigate where that big of a payment came from?

>The jedi were suspicious about it but they had no choice but to fight in the war.

Of course, but not all of them. There are more than enough Jedi to investigate and fight a war at the same time.

>They bought the whole facility that was still creating clones. It just happens that a bunch of clones were ready. It's not suspicious all at.

It just happens that an entire army was ready to go, complete with armor, weapons, ships, and training, when the Republic hadn't had an army in centuries? That's incredibly suspicious.

Aren't they actually free to leave if they want to?

I think I remember a couple of clones living normal lives, but I'm not sure.

>Right, but why the hell did they agree to that?
Look, man, Dooku and Palpatine were the most powerful people in the galaxy with god know how much planning went into place.
>And second, are Jedi visions valid in business transactions?
See previous reply.
>You're going to war with a coalition of bankers/investors/merchants led by one of the richest men in the galaxy, and you don't investigate where that big of a payment came from?
That was just my guess, I haven't watched the film in years. I assumed they took out a loan from Dooku or something then the Republic paid for the whole thing later after they bought them.
>That's incredibly suspicious.
Yeah, it was a bit suspicious that it was ready at the right moment but I don't think anyone had a choice to question it.

Not true.
The movement was indeed hijacked by morally questionnable figures (like the Trade Federation) but at the origin they were just a bunch of planets and corporations tired of the Senate oligarchy, their corruption and the high taxations they imposed on everyone, it was basically the Tea party of the Star War universe.
The fact that a totalitarian regime emerged proved they were not wrong, just like the deeply corrupt and incompetent roman Senate allowed the rise of Octavian as Emperor, the galactic senate allowed the rise of Palpatine as Emperor.

In the prelogy the "nice guys" (ie the Jedi Order) don't lose because of the bad guys, they lose because they became morally bankrupt by overstepping their responsibilities, they threw themselves into dirty politics and were defending an exhausted regime against people who had a rational sentiment of anger and revolt.
If you look at the entire plot you can realize that if they had refused to lead the republican army and just have persisted as law enforcement and diplomats (like their doctrine teaches them to do) then the Jedi Order would have remained out of reach from the order 66 and so Sidious, the entire plan revolved around framing them as a militarized force that could threaten the Senate (making them the equivalent of "imperators" during the roman republic).
Noone would have believed that the Jedi could lead a coup against the Republic if they didn't already commanded a large part of the republican army.

I prefer to think of it more along the lines of...

>Hey I'm a Jedi fucking Knight... I know right... anyway I've come to your slave hovel to have a quick word about your son. I'm sure you've noticed by now but essentially he's force sensitive yea and I want to give you the opportunity of securing your kids future in a life that isn't peasant tier or getting entangled in the gangs that run this Galaxy. Sound good?
>He'll have free accommodation and great food guaranteed for life and the medical insurance is second to none. He'll never be short of work and he'll always be surrounded by good friends.

Honestly what wouldve happened if they lost. From what I understand most sepratists just wanted independence and the bankers who were money hungry wouldnt have got shit. Worst case scenario jedi either get killed or exiled to some planet.

Do you actually think the Jedi Council cares about the well being of their people?

Fact: there was no war until the Republic attacked Geonosis.
The army was built at a deterrent force to force the Rebuplic recognize the scission.
You can argue that wanting to execute Obi Wan is a casus belli but you can argue that he illegally present on the planet and here to spy.

I quote Doku:
>"The Republic will agree any demand we make".
youtube.com/watch?v=Ivd7CITbunI

>Right, but why the hell did they agree to that? If a US Army colonel waltzed into Lockheed Martin's headquarters and said "I'm going need about 200,000 planes, don't worry, the government will pay you when they're done, make sure to build them in secret", do you think they would just do it?

If Dick Cheney or some similar figure did so. Yes, I think they would take it on faith they would be getting black slush fund money. If not, that's what lawyers are for.

How old are the clones mentally if their growth is sped up?

About as old as you, m8

...

cannon question: does the empire continue making clones for the imperial army to replace the republic ones or do they phase in normal recruits

>shit I could google but won't: the post

Slowly phase in normal recruits cuz of paranoia over betrayal or bio weapons, or the dna template becoming more corrupt, depending on the writer.

thanks

eat shit

stormtroopers being clones isn't canon

THIS WAS ANSWERED IN A NEW HOPE

LUKE IS SHORTER THAN THE REST OF THE STORMTROOPERS

NONE OF THE OTHER STORMTROOPERS BAT A FUCKING EYE AT SHORTY MCNOTCLONE WALKING DOWN THE HALLWAY

>The army was built at a deterrent force to force the Rebuplic recognize the scission.

And the Republic is supposed to trust them not to use that army to annex star systems by force, because... ?

The Robots were the badies

What about the invasion of Naboo?
First it was just a blockade which can be seen as a peaceful demonstration.
Qui Gon and Obiwan were sent as peaceful negotiators.
Then they tried to murder Qui Gon and Obiwan out of nowhere and invaded the planet, taking the Queen hostage

That was done by the Viceroy of the Trade Federation, officially. Officially it has nothing to do with the Confederation of Independent Systems.

The Trade Federation and the CIS are two different things: the first is a member of a second which is basically a big coalition of systems and planets with its own senate (not all of them are greedy corporation wanting to make money out of a conflict, a large part were just conventionnal systems).
Then you had the council which was more or less the military/executive arm of the CIS (the leaders you see being slaughtered by Anakin at the end of Ep. III).

Anyway afawk the Trade Federation was the only one directly under the order of Sidious (at least until the last stages of the war), for the rest of them they sincerely believed that Count Doku was just an ex-jedi disgruntled with the Republic who decided to lead a political movement that already had pre existing bases.