Deism/ Atheism

Ok atheists tell me if the universe is cyclical, what created the circle?
That's one of the reasons I consider myself a deist, I cant rationalize how something was created out of nothing without a divine figure that willed itself into existence.
I don't believe that divine figure stuck around to govern every action in this universe so its entirely possible it doesn't even know humans exist.
tell me how

>uno posto de este ID

if god is all powerful, could he create a stone that he couldn't lift?
this whole "something from nothing" argument has been debunked ample of times.

Maybe so but it's not been done in this thread.

I don't know.
Do you?
If you do provide evidence.

What makes you think atheists think that time and space are cyclical?

Who crated the divine figure ?

willed itself into existence

then why not just skip a step and call the universe a god

Thomas aquinas' first mover

WE
WUZ
TIME
&
SPACe

If God created the universe what created God?

Circle is not only inaccurate, it is misleading. Circles exist within Euclidean Space in other words they only make sense within a certain context. But what if you look at that context? Does it have to exist within a context? Does Euclidean Space have to exist within some kind of "super-space" and on and on? Mathematically the answer is no, it is a topological space, a self-sufficient and complete algebra. And that is what the current model of the universe is: a topological space. Self-sufficiently standing on its own legs, leaving no loose ends or unresolved threads.

That does not make any sense.
That's like me saying the universe slowly came into being out of nothing.
It's literally a gibberish of ideas.
A audacious misuse of words that appears to make sense until you examine the meaning of the words.

>universe is cyclical
no, universe is open. l2physics

your good at picking nay saying everything how do you explain the universe than?

It's okay to say "I don't know", user. None of us do.

I don't exacting to see the universe to be explained in it's entirety in your lifetime is absurd.
People a few generations ago didn't have a grasp on many of the secrets we've no revealed.
Going for the easy answer ('god did it') because there is no other right now has been proven to be a false approach through experience.
We thought lightnings were gods work, we thought sickness was his wrath. We were wrong.

this meme was old before it began

There is no difference between atheism and deism. If you find the source of everything it must have always existed(it's the only way to solve the problem of causality). The only way for something to always have existed is for it's inexistence to be impossible. Whatever that thing is that can't not exist, it would be indistinguishable from god.

How about, I don't know, not assuming you know jack shit about how it all came to be?
No one fucking knows.

>Ok atheists tell me if the universe is cyclical, what created the circle?

If it's cyclical it created itself

You dumbfuck

No one cares. These meaningless slide threads. This is the politically incorrect board, not a YouTube comment section.

Is everything not a Trump thread just a slide thread now?

>Says universe is a circle
>Posts picture of a torus

>I don't know how this happened so god did it

Athiesm (the lack of belief in the existence of gods) does not require you to have an answer for how the universe came to be.

If you want to know how physically something can come from nothing then read Lawrence Krausses book A Universe from nothing, or watch one of his many talks online. There are plausible physical theories that allow for this and experimental evidence shows us that it's possible we do live in such a universe.

Deism is just a form of god of the gaps, what you're describing is called an argument from ignorance, which follows the form "i can't explain X therefore it must be god"

Instead isn't the rational thing to do is just admit you don't know and remain open to further evidence? Running to god is an intellectually lazy and ultimately dishonest position.

>large monkey rules tribe
>huge monkey rules universe

>plausible physical theories
>untestable
>equally as valid as a homeless mans explanation.
>shouldnt you admit you dont know
it sounds like you cant discuss the concept of faith. the evidence for the existence of god is all around you and easily observed by your conscious living body - on this scortched rock orbiting a star in a sea of blackness.

it's not that i'm unable to ask further questions or wonder why... i do, and i know through faith that god is the reason for all of this. agnosticism is so boring, pick a side.

>Things exist, therefor God!

logically there will have been a creator to everything... and an uncreated creator at the start/end and every aspect in between.

atheists like yourself simply say we evolved from rocks that appeared out of nothing on its own magically along with space/time... dont expect much reasoned logic from someone with an anime reaction folder though.

Logically it's better not to assume
Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean you need to fill it in with GOD

how hard it is to say 'i dont know'? is your ego really that fucking inflated that yo uthink you have to have the answer to everything?

>logical not to assume
you literally can not understand the natural human faith in god. i feel real bad for you, you have a learned atheist response that goes against every fiber of your being, i promise you can snap out of it. there is absolutely no reason to be atheist when all the evidence 99% of humans need fills their eyes and nostrils daily.

So you admit you don't know what you're talking about and just blindly believe because it feels good, got it

is a quest for understanding worthless?

There are no creations, only manipulations. Why assume that creation is necessary for existence when you have witnessed existence but never witnessed creation?

it becomes worthles when you substitute actual evidence and proof for 'well what else could it be' and limit yourself to your own imagination

>we know the shape of the universe

dobkok

>things exist
prove it

Ok, you can't understand something from nothing. So where did this higher power come from? At this point we argue something we can never, ever know. Chances are, the universe always has been and always will be, for no real reason at all.

are you forcing me to admit that i'm not an all knowing person? seriously you choose this as your argument?

blind faith, no, i have strong belief. you should try it, it is a natural human characteristic. by willing it out of your mind in a half-assed manner, you have damaged your mind and personality.

Slava Sverodu

Strong belief is blind belief unless there's hard evidence for it, which there isn't and no, existence isn't evidence

no actual evidence of where everything came from

everything has a creator, except the uncreated creator. there is no need to assume something that is straight forward and logical. it does seem that you take for granted the phenomenon of your own conscious human mind, why do that?

yeah, thats why i say i dont know instead of pretending i do

Universe is infinite and loops through death/rebirth. Has been doing so forever.

Infinity does not need ( And logically speaking, cannot have -otherwise it isn't really infinity ) a cause.

I dont have knowledge, i have belief

You guys latch onto Christianity because you want it to validate your contrived sense of masculinity and you associate believing in God with it.

ok then, believe whatever you want and keep it to yourself, dont pretend that its true and recognise that theres no reason to believe your myth over any other

i see you have not addressed my comment on your lack of faith. it is a very natural and universal human characteristic. dont you think you have damaged your mind by forcefully removing this from your life?

>existence isnt evidence
by this logic science has no evidence for anything. fail. try a different angle, this one makes you seem like a space cadet.

> cyclical
> circular

...Oi...

Secondly, you naturally think cyclical because all NATURAL phenomenon are. Time and matter are not.

Remember: Viri can live forever.... so "god" could have made you libe forever too.... oh, wait, that's 'afterwards'...pffft, right. The perfect god that made an imperfect design while showing he could do better with less.

#NotYourSoulToTake #DeismDescrimination

but how has it existed forever?

In occult and hermetic teachings this is exactly the point. God is all and the all is god. Things make much more sense for people of our kind if you step away from the image of god being a man to thinking of him as being a will.

who is latching on? this is something that normal people know and experience from birth. you have an unnatural mental state that has torn your soul to shreds. a human being needs faith in their lives. to deny the light in one of us is to deny it in all of us. science is great, i've probably had more of it than you, but it isnt a philosophy. the ven diagrams of science and religion dont intersect. one cannot disprove the other. science does not require atheism, dont believe everything black science guy tells you.

I mean i knew /pol had a lot of fedoras but come on. .

>calling someone dumbfuck
>implying that when you draw a circle on a piece of paper the circle has drawn itself

Holland shitposters at it again

It is if one substitutes the observable evidence for their hypothesis or thinks their hypothesis overrules observable evidence.

Because infinity.

One of the flaws of human intellect is most of us have a difficult time grasping what infinity really means.

If it is cyclical, it just it. It doesn't have a "how" it existed forever. There is no cause as there is no beginning. That's how infinite backwards time works.

I "lack faith" because there's no evidence of a God

>by this logic science has no evidence for anything
Science is all about doing millions of tests to see if something is true or not, not bullshit claims like "Existence=God"

>this one makes you seem like a space cadet
What does that even mean?

The universe could effecticely have been in some sort of 0-state after which + and - matter came into existence. An equal negative and positive can add up to being nothing.

How do you rationalize a god then?
Surely he must be even more complex?

There are a large group of people on here that believe in God for the reason I just said.

I didn't say anything about anything else beyond that.

Our mind also projects witches or aliens during sleep paralysis to explain something it doesnt understand.

In your logic this must mean they are just as real as God.

has infinity been observed?
infinity is just a theory

The problem is that it is not logical at all.

It isnt even logical to think about what happened "before" the big bang as time didnt fucking exist.

You need to understand that at this point us humans cant imagine how a universe with no time or space would "act".

Your "logical" "gut feeling" really doesnt apply to physics on a cosmic scale.

>IT'S JUST A THEORY GUYS
Holy shit just stop

This ladies and gentlemen is why the usa is fucked beyond imagination even if trump kicks out the niggers and mexicans.

Fanatic uneducated christians

Gravity is a theory too
A SCIENTIFIC theory

gravity is observable

I drive an infiniti g37 which i have observed.

There, enjoy some retarded shit from someone else.

The more important question is:
What is the nature of reality?
If the universe/multiverse was created by the divine being, then what is universe/multiverse exactly? What is it's nature? Is it a dream? A simulation? Or maybe something "real" in general terms? What might the divine being be like? Does it encompass EVERYTHING there is and ever will be, or does it exist in some kind of medium, be it NOTHINGNESS or SOMETHING. If it is SOMETHING, then we can continue with this logic ad infium.
If the universe/multiverse wasn't created in some divine act and they just pop in/out of existence due to random unlikely fluctuations of SOMETHING way way more elemental/basic over long period of time (or something resembling a series of consecutive events), then what the FUCK this substance is?

As for univserse out of nothing - it's easily explained. The total energy of the universe (counting gravity, dark energy, dark radiation, matter - literally everything) is nullified. It's basically zero and we exist only because imbalances in energy do. Think of matter/antimatter. They exist and posess differently charged potentials, but when they make contact - they cease to exist as a barionic matter and explode into an array of more elemental kinds of mstter.

I go to the degenerate Sup Forums is god real?. i just went shopping and they are they are talking about is god real

is this a sign from god?

Do you even know what scientific theory is?

????????

Taking hollandposting to a whole new level here ladies and gentlemen.

You couldve become a meme with that incoherent nonsense if this was Sup Forums

You can't rationalise how something was created out of nothing, yet you can rationalise something deciding to create itself out of nothing? Do you have any idea how retarded that is?

Nothing has a creator and nothing has ever been created in the sense you wish to use it and the idea that creation is necessary is so unfounded that you can only concede that "it is too straight-forward and logical to assume." I have no idea where you get that I am taking consciousness for granted or how that is even possible on a lexical level. I take nothing for granted, everything IS. I know that most religious people are standing on their head, thinking a necessary a priori starting point is some divine that "has to exist because of convolutions that I can only describe as necessary on an aesthetic level" whereas in fact the a priori starting point is simply one's own consciousness as a matter of fact, but in your case I can't even see the equivalent algebra you're using here. What is this "creation" and why is it necessary? Can you not see how the Earth is not a creation but a culmination of great many elements and mechanics which conglomerate into an abstract whole. In that sense everything is like that, even things that are man-made (a realm in which the word "creation" has actual substantive meaning) are culminations, not creations. So then what is the process of creation by which anything you have ever witnessed has been created that must, too, apply to the sum of everything?

just a hypothesis that;s been sucessfully tested like 1 fuckin time.
infinity is a theory, not fucking observable

>I "lack faith" because there's no evidence of a God
>existence isnt evidence
nothing is evidence for you, even for science. you unironically sweep aside your sentient natural consciousness as nothing of merit. this is not normal friend. you shouldnt belittle yourself like this.

>our existence is bullshit
please show me another instance of sentient life. i'm sure you'd use that as evidence for something if found... yet our existence is irrelevent to you. i think this goes deeper than the obvious mental problems associated with atheist self-loathing, you seem to have woven this narrative into your mind in such a way as to prevent any merit to your life, or any life of any kind. you are a pol-pot waiting to gain power. i really hope you can take the first step and realize you are a very special person and that god loves you uniquely.

Actually my friends gravity is the power of which we know the least and the biggest obstacle keeping us from creating a universal law.

Its not because you land back on earth after jumping that gravity as described in current theory is real. It just means there is some power which results in you landing back on the ground.

>hurr I don't understand something
>must be God hurr

yeah i know i fucked up did not want to bother to change it

>Implying Sup Forums did not become Sup Forums 2.0 without porn

>universe already exists
>already has a zero state
there's your problem right there. please use that algerian brain of yours for something else besides tarnishing the flemish name.

why are atheists so fuckin edgy xd xD rawr

God is just a hypothesis that has been tested successfully 0 times

>very large group of people
i dont believe you

Nothing creates the circle, it is eternal? Just because we're linear, this doesn't apply to everything.

A circle, whose centre is everywhere, and whose circumference is nowhere.

yupp thats why its a belief

you are confusing the situation with history and story time. you clearly do not understand the natural state of prayer. instead of discussing/debating, you are conflating the argument and misdirecting. perhaps i was like this once upon a time, you wish to ridicule that which you have rejected (mom and dads christianity)

>Logic dictates that everything that exists must have been created
>logic dictates an uncreated creator must exist

It's mind bogglingly faulty logic like this that is why religion even exists

>Ok atheists tell me if the universe is cyclical

[[citation needed]]

entropy suggests against any type of universe which repeats itself in a cycle for an infinite amount of time

>that's like saying that the universe came slowly from nothing

But user that's exactly /thread.

First: there was "nothing" but dark matter. It was in a basic state. It, after what we would only measure as "forever", finally combined to make anti-quarks and so on, first the anti- basic building blocks of matter was made, and then once actual matter was created....it exploded outwards, creating an uncontrollable chain of events that's lead to our present day universe.

Thanks to the wonders of science, we can prove with fact that this is how the universe was created. We will not become cyclonic unless we somehow are able to reverse the Big Push aka expansion, so it then creates the supposed Big Crunch instead of the inevitable Heat Death of the universe.

user, cap this. I am right.
Using the definition of words, I am correct.

>As for univserse out of nothing - it's easily explained. The total energy of the universe (counting gravity, dark energy, dark radiation, matter - literally everything) is nullified. It's basically zero and we exist only because imbalances in energy do.

Buddy, I agree with you, but gravity is the only snarl to that idea. We've never found any anti-mass, only anti-matter, which destroys matter because of the electrical charges. Gravity is still a weird mystery of nature, for now

I never said the universe already existed as it depends on how you define 'exist'. Existing requires a certain moment in time and an observation (unless you want to go full philosophic and talk about the winds in the trees when no one is there to hear it).

In short: we have no clue on how to imagine a universe with no time and space so we cant judge whether or not this zero state universe can be seen as an existing something.

I am not an atheist as im not excluding a god but the existence of a god does not solve the question of what was there "before" everything, including said god.

>We've never found any anti-mass
Dark energy which accelerates the expansion of the universe and counters gravity.

you are venturing into an area science has zero understanding of. find a homeless guy with piss all over himself and ask him what happend, it is probably more right than what you just said.

>your logical gut feeling doesnt appy to physics
who said it did? faith and science are unrelated subjects. you cant inject one into the other.

>us humans
>algerian invader
ok

Again I havent rejected the possibility of a "god" as in a creator of the universe as we know it but this doesnt provide us with any answers to how this god came into existence and pretty much leaves us with the same problem.

And no, gut feeling and natural state of insanity doesnt prove that theres a god any more than dreaming about aliens.

>show me another instance of sentient life
Show me an instance of God without saying "look around you"

What shape is a open universe?

Are you being retarded on purpose?