That moment when you realize the Enterprise could take down the entire imperial navy because their weapons cant even...

that moment when you realize the Enterprise could take down the entire imperial navy because their weapons cant even scratch the star trek shields and their own shields are useless

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=4SK0cUNMnMM&pbjreload=10
youtube.com/watch?v=RgHhUZt8j98
stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

>that moment you realize the imperials span the entire galaxy and have faster engines

>inb4 star wars galaxy is smaller than milky way

faster engines?

Until Vader throws a Death Star at the Enterprise.

In Star Trek, it still takes them decades at max warp to cross the galaxy. Entire plot of Voyager centers around this.

In Star Wars, you can cross the galaxy in a few days max.

Hyperspace is way faster than warp drive

In Star Trek they have a more basic warp travel that while relatively fast to us, is extremely limited compared to Star Wars hyperlanes that let them cross the galaxy at most in a few days

is he on the Death Star during this or just floating beside it?

That moment when you realize Slave I's cannons are more powerful than every single weapon in the Enterprise's armory.

Niggers...

Star trek """"action""""

youtube.com/watch?v=4SK0cUNMnMM&pbjreload=10

Space Marines > Jedi

>lel spaceships ramming each other
>lel ridiculous
>R1

Mmm...

its funny how everything in the movies indicate the ships are pretty weak, their shields don't work well etc etc

but then you look at the EU and the say shit like the empire has 100k star destroyers and other bullshit.

the enterprise-d could take out the death star easily

SW is consistently the most inconsistent popular space opera, leaving behind even Star Trek in this regard.

Yes, but Starfleet's impulse engines are faster. And their targetting systems makes all the dogfighting ships from Star Wars useless too.

So yeah, the Empire can run away faster, but they'll never take a fight or hold any strategic or important planets/systems.

>target photon torpedos at the giant weakpoint
>the end

star wars is p consistent if you ignore the EU like anyone who isnt an autistic manchild

for years people told star wars fans the EU wasnt canon after the prequels ignored it entirely

then disney came in and just completely ignored it

the people wh o make the movies do not read the books or any of that shit

youtube.com/watch?v=RgHhUZt8j98

How would they know of the weakpoint on DS-1, and if it was DS-2 how would they be able to take out the planetary shield and do serious damage to it before going kaput

Is it still safe to assume that Westworld was built there after the Federation found this planet?

there is an entire website that shows how fucking powerful the star wars ships are, the fucking falcon could destroy an entire enterprise fleet or someshit.

star wars numbers are retarded high.

stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

>would they be able to take out the planetary shield and do serious damage to it before going kaput

They'd send all their bridge officers down with a phaser and tricoder and get rekt by storm troopers

fire torpedoes at the planet

>eu
>canon

the problem is every movie shows these ships as shitty as hell and rogue one hasnt helped

>the problem is every movie shows these ships as shitty as hell and rogue one hasnt helped
fair enough, the eu is not canon but i don't think the numbers have changed.
They do look shitty when you compare them to ships with equal numbers as them, its like saying abrahams tanks look like shit against current leopard 2 tanks when they are similar.
But put a current abrahams tank vs a tiger 2 and we'll see who wins.

An ISD with shield down can be taken out by ONE A-WING. Using nothing but it's mass.

star destroyers get taken down by small stunt fighters

they get taken out by asteroids

they struggle to take out or disable a small freighter like the falcon

they get fucking RAMMED and their shields are completely ineffective

the numbers make no sense and neither does EU when you watch the movies. if they have that kind of power, there is no point in even having a death star.

so what about Stargate ships vs trek and wars ships?

>Westworld
this was a good thread but then you had to fag out and shit it up

It doesn't matter how it looks, the numbers said otherwise, unless we get an actual enterprise fighting a destroyer we will never know.

Now the numbers might not be canon so we will actually never know and cannot really speculate.

But that's more because they're the baddies and have to be completely inept/have contrived weaknesses.
Just like how battle droids in the prequels had the mental capacity of a fucking kindergartner.

>New Hope
>Tantive IV is grabbed with a tractor beam.

>R1
>Tantive IV shiggadiggles right from under an ISD and VADER PERSONALLY. Tractor beams? Vat?

What I would give for some quality CGI animation (longer trailler tier, nothing big) of small Imperial Armada BTFOing Empire's Star Destroyers along with a scene of Space Muhreens boarding one of them via torpedoes and absolutelu wrecking everything by laughter as blasters are scratching their armor.

Everything would end with a bit of hope for empire (or let's say palpatine's republic) as 2 jedi would enter the fray, but as soon as they are spotted one of them has his mind fried by librarian, while the other one has his neck broken in surprise by marine who's arm he just cut off thinking that's enough to get him down.

...

Star Trek is set a long time in the future and Star wars was set a long time ago. It's like Ancient Egypt verse America.

They can move from planet to planet faster than Starfleet can react

They might not be able to beat them in ship to ship combat but a star destroyer could completely glass a starfleet world and retreat into the void of space before anyone knows what hit them

>WH4K literally Mary sue: the franchise

He's in his tie fighter of course

>tfw this debate has spaned almost fourty years and multiple generations
Society is coming up on top baby.

>EU numbers

Star Trek also has time travel and literal gods (Sisko, Q) as allies who would destroy the empire with ease.

Numerous races within the Star Trek universe that the Federation has repelled would dominate the Empire. Changelings, Borg, etc.

Star Wars also uses manually aimed lasers for some reason which even assuming they would do damage to the Enterprise, would be almost impossible to hit it while traveling around at even impulse speed.

Also, teleporters give the Enterprise a huge advantage.

They would teleport weapons onto Imperial ships the same way the SGC did with the Goold

...

>star destroyers don't have shields
Why are trekfags so autistic?

>But that's more because they're the baddies and have to be completely inept/have contrived weaknesses.
This is what killed most of the R1 action for me. Empire is painfully nonthreatening. Stormtroopers standing tall run out into flanking fire and drop dead when someone gently taps them on a shoulder. X-Wings take down gazzilions of TIEs with a threatening look in their general direction. They fucking get taken out by a BLIND MAN WITH A LASER WALKING STICK. AT-ATs are now cardboard models. Presence of multiple ISDs is mildly annoying for the rebel fleet. Empire's military industrial complex consists entirely of paper-thin defense and secrecy facilities that all might as well have a "Kick me!" orbital sign flying above them.

That's fucking not how you do your antagonists. This makes Power Rangers look grim and tense in comparison. Empire Strikes Back worked, among other things, because it made Empire a force to be reckoned with. Even one ISD is some serious fucking shit. AT-ATs are unstoppable juggernauts of rape. Stormtroopers are actually better trained and organized force that has an advantage fighting a ragtag bunch of misfits. Imperials are everywhere. They know everything. They have everyone you trusted by the balls. You can't hide from them. They get shit done, and today the honorary shit is you. This is how you do an antagonist. This creates tension. This raiss stakes. This makes heroes the lovable underdogs who have to struggle to overcome a superior force.

R1s imperial forces had me like "oh, more cannon fodder to the slaughter. Wake me up when next 30 bunches are jumpcutted to death"

>How would they know of the weakpoint on DS-1

Remember how primitive and virtually worthless the targeting system was on Luke's X-Wing? That was about the only reason why the Deathstar's weak point seemed like a huge obstacle. However, when you consider the fact that the scanners on a standard Starfleet vessel are easily 50x more advanced, they would have no trouble locating the weak point.

Not to mention that when it comes to Starfleet vs the Empire, most of the Empire's strength was in numbers, they had millions of expendable stormtroopers at their beck and call, so they never cared to prepare them beyond basic training because entire army was comprised of pawns, save for a few officers, Darth Vader, and the Emperor. Starfleet would have a massive tactical advantage due to the fact that no one is considered entirely expendable, because most officers filled a specific role. Therefore, Starfleet captains make far greater strides to protect their own, which demands a vast amount of experience and tactical knowledge. So, the best chance the Empire would have at winning is if Starfleet only sent one or two ships after the Deathstar, in which case they would be easily overrun by tie fighters, like a pitbull against a swarm of bees.

However, with the Deathstar being able to destroy entire planets with their primary cannon is obviously a massive threat to countless civilizations. Therefore, Starfleet would not hesitate to send dozens of ships after the Empire, this would result in the Empire being outsmarted and overtaken by Starfleet's finest.

tl;dr Trek is smarter, Trek wins.

Teleporters don't work through shields normally in Star Trek though, no?

You literally don't know what mary sue means.

If 40k was made to compete with SW or ST in naval battles then yes.

Also, while power level is bigger, nothing in 40k even got onto level of marysueism presented in SW tbqhwym8.

In that case the best one would be ST where there are mary sues but now even close to those other franchises.

The Tantive IV isn't attached to an ISD, nigger. It unlatches from a rebel capital ship.

I always loved this sequence in context

>we can't nuke the wraith because their fighter screen is too dense
>fuck it lets launch all the nukes, atleast one will make it through

Give me ships which can actually detect, target and hit stuff outside direct visual range. Starfleet and the Empire might have bigger ships but even the Corvette and Patcom ships from independence War games were mounting 250km long range missiles.

No, that would be the Culture. It's one of the best pretenders for "it rapes EVERRRRYTHING EVER".

40k is just one of the few popular space operas wholly and entirely centered on warfare, and thus fighting is really ramped up a bit compared to what usually pops up.

>The Tantive IV isn't attached to an ISD, nigger.
I know, nigger. I meant that it was really close for a plenty of time, and Imperials knew that the plans were there since >Vader. Why the fuck didn't they catch it with a tractor beam?

Star Wars shields are so incompetently used they might as well not even be there.

They do stupid things like putting shield generators outside of the shield's protection, let large physical objects (like ships) fly extremely close to their ships, etc.

A CHALLENGER APPEARS

Are you 40kfag? how would those ships compare to empire/federation? They seem overdesigned, but not that deadly

Don't see the Empire or Starfleet building Orbitals and Ringworlds for fun. Reminder that a Culture ship displaced matter from a star to destroy one of their own pic related in the Idiran War.

It's stuff like that + Effectors (forcefields used as weapons) and Collapsed Anti-Matter (CAM) which make turbolasrer and phasers look like peashooters.

Advanced targeting computers

Ion Torpedos against already inferior shields

[picrelated]

Yeah in Star Wars they could travel the galaxy in a few days in minutes.

star wars shields don't even appear to be able to stop physical objects so how the fuck would they be able to adapt to transporters

like in empire when theyre chasing the falcon they dont even have the shields raised and even after they do the falcon just flies through the shields

star wars travel makes no sense

how did the falcon get to bespin without hyperdrive? they went from tatooine to alderaan in about 2 minutes too.

the star wars universe could just be a small galaxy.

that said the star trek warp drive might be slower but they don't have to spend 5 minutes charting a path so they dont crash into blackholes

They don't have shields. Not anymore anyways. It was the EU that explained that their ships have shields and that they're not actually firing lasers. But Disney did away with the EU, so the ships no longer have shields and they fire lasers again.

They do you idiot watch the next movie

marines of the dead emperor get killed plenty by chaos though

Canon has the SW galaxy as being in the area of 100k light years across apparently, which is the same as the milky way.

lol, Star Wars has big ships, don't make me laugh.

They dont. They have Deflector Arrays. Only the Death Star and planetary defense systems are actually shielded

If a borg cube was able to destroy a large portion of starfleet including sister ships of the enterprise then a death star can defeat the enterprise.

if what is shown on screen (canon) invalidates the EU, then the EU loses

what we know is that the ships are very brittle and all the number this fanboy threw out there is meaningless if it doesn't support what's shown on screen

>stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html
quotes retarded "technical manuals" for fanbois written by mathematically illiterate "authors"

Slave 1 could easily whoop the Enterprise, yet small Star Wars ships shooting other ships making them blow up with explosions the size of a 2 story house. Ya, that's a near-nuclear powered blast all right!

Disney invalidated the EU by outright stating it's no longer canon.

Borg Cube would wreck the Empire too. Assuming LASERs could even do any damage, the borg would adapt and regenerate.

The reason the Borg fucked up the Federation is because they have the ability to near instantly work around and regenerate damaged areas

To be fair the Borg cube should have destroyed the federation. Star Trek was dumb in creating an enemy that was too powerful.

What the borg try once or twice to assimilate earth... then give up? They would have continued to try until they succeeded.

Oh, and deflectors shielding only "bounces" energy rays off. They cannot however, survive sustained energy beams, as it drains the reactor too quickly. A 20 second pulse beam from the Enterprise would drain the reactor or a Super Star Destroyer completely

Here's the final answer. Size means everything in stories. Star Wars ships are way bigger, and therefore would win.

Nothing else matters. There's a reason the Borg cubes and the many-lightbulb ship from TOS are giants compared to the Enterprises. Higher tech = much bigger ships, and more powerful guts to boot. That's the general rule.


inb4 but the double-sized Romulan battleship!

They're waiting for Picard to die naturally so they can take over.

even if the empire had more powerful weapons, it wouldnt matter

theyre the bad guys and bad guys always lose to the good guys

That's not true at all. Tech trumps size.

Aside from FTL traveling, Trek beats Star Wars in all tech.

Both universes invalidate your post.

The rebels were smaller than the Empire in numbers and ship size
The federation is smaller than the borg in ship size

>discussing the science behind star wars ships
wew
it hasn't made sense from the start
>measuring speed in parsecs
sMh

So youre saying the Empire would be able to run away faster.

they literally travel through hell every time the warp jump. something like 50% of the crew dies or goes insane everytime they do it. it seems like a few minutes but to them its months. thats the kind of shit their ships are prepared for, they sometimes have to fight literal gods just to get to the battle ffs.

This is comparing apples and oranges. One is science fiction and other is fantasy.

No kidding. The biggest SW ship is literally 10 miles long

if that were true it wouldn't make a very good strategy game, now would it?

If we're talking about the late-era Tau'ri ships with giant Asgard death lasers, Stargate ships probably rek both SW and ST.

In Stargate, they can travel between galaxies within the space of a month. Traveling within one takes them days.

They're TURBO lasers. I don't know what a turbo laser is, but it's not a plain old laser!

Also, a laser is energy. Enough energy breaks anything, Riker's "Lasers!?!?!?" not withstanding. We already have theoretical ideas for a nuclear bomb-pumped X-ray laser (and a continent-busting cobalt bomb, for that matter) both of which would make quick work of either universe's ships.

They...probably don't wanna go up against the Troy from the Troy Rising series, either.

do star wars ships have structual integrity fields? what keeps them from folding like an acordian when they punch up the engines?

>Implying
SW has weapons that defy physical law, such as a plasma beam that can travel warp space at ftl speeds and hit AND destroy planets that are several star systems away

the force

And no doubt like every SW ship has one massive flaw that when destroyed takes out the entirety of the ship.

And as it's already been established their weak points are easily destroyed.

>stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

>200 Gigatons converts to 200,000 megatons.
>If Earth detonated the estimated global cache of 30,000 nuclear weapons, enough to turn the Earth into a smoking rock three times over, it would release 7,000 megatons of force.
>The second a Star Destroyer fires the heavy gun they are engulfed in a planet killing explosion that kills everyone.

We have seen Star Destroyers orbitally bombard planets. To do the kind of damage that comes close to baking to bedrock, they have to bombard a planet for hours, and this comes in the form of a fleet. So this is why Star Trek fans get so annoyed when the numbers get brought up by people who are all 'ITZ STAR WARS CANON, SOME DUDE WROTE IT DOWN ONCE SO THAT'S WHAT IT IS LOL'. These numbers have to be way off. If we follow these numbers, a star destroyer only needs one shot fired from far away to destroy a planet that would probably destroy their own ship when they fired it. Cuz A-Wings can crack their hull.

By contrast, a Star Trek Photon torpedo does 64 megatons. The Tsar Bomba, the world's most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated, had a yield of 50 megatons. So more powerful, can be fired and detonated with accuracy during space flight, but not crazy in the context of future technology.

The Force.

They don't measure speed in parsecs and never have though.

Data + Picard used a trick to beat one cube, and Picard a trick to beat another, both heavily dependent on Picard knowing the Borg cubes inside and out. Had nothing to do with their ship tech.

In other words.. retarded shit written by a hack.

Star Trek has had it's fair as well... fucking red matter.

Like ramming a corvette ship into a star destroyer to push it, for that matter?

>They seem overdesigned
That's part of the stylee.

>how would those ships compare to empire/federation
Taking an actual look from the viewpoint of realistic void combat - DUNNO. Effective fire distance is the most crucial part, and it's all over the place for every one of them. From what distance can an Imperium vessel's targeting cogitator land a reliable hit on an ISD? Can a Fed starship give a Retribution a facefull of proton torpedoes without dipping int it's lance batteries range? Fuck if i know.

40k mainly rides out on Battlefleet Gothic - a tabletop (and eventually a recent vidya) about voidcraft combat.Elements that get actual consistent mechanical representation get fleshed out better. From it, we know that at least 40k voidships actually maneuver strategically through the entire combat, and struggle for survival ability is a major factor. In a likeness with actual ships, 40k vessels don't just go boom when their healthbar is empty - specific damages take out specific systems and functionality, and a half-devastated Imperial ship is only a half less dangerous - it still keeps fighting thanks to numerous bulkheads, deck hands' restorative efforts, multiple redundant systems and the like. That's something we only barely see in Empire at War for SW, and with "Engineering! Technobabble our engines back into working condition!" for ST.

If comparing pure numbers, 40k battleships are waaaaaaaay over the top of everything. They are massive, INSANELY armored with bullshitium plating, can deliver an Enterprise's mass in what is effectively nukes in one broadside, have a small star's worth of energy keeping up the void shields, posses teleportation capabilities and orders of magnitude larger crews. However, at the same time it can be argued that they are much lower on tech efficiency, and both SWEU and ST can certainly provide a dozen examples of ships dealing with similar threats with no effort. 40k can't.

Fucking writes can't do math.

A Worf-captained Defiant would run rings around any SW ship and you know it.

Full spread of photon torpedoes.

i just watched an episode of star trek where they blew up a sun on accident

if the feddies were evil everyone would be fucked