Why was Darth Vader taking orders from officers when he was second to only the Emperor?

Why was Darth Vader taking orders from officers when he was second to only the Emperor?

Because he wasn't in charge of the Desu Star.

Tarkin outranks him. Vader isn't part of the military really. He's more of a personal messenger/weapon of the emperor. Tarkin is still in charge of the Death Star station

He was outside of the chain command. Also to not undermine the leadership of Tarkin in front of his men.

In the first movie Vader didn't have rank in the Empire. He was just a dog who went around and fucked shit up when shit needed to be fucked up.

The writers kinda forgot about this in the subsequent films.

The Death Star operation wasn't his show to run so while it's going on he's an observer, adviser and liaison at best. Once it's destroyed he's the Emperor's sole big stick again while the second one is being built.

Because Tarkin out ranked him in the Empire. And for good reason.
Vader showed no political skills at all, he basically just some space wizard who killed people who made mistakes and was able to swing a sword on a battleship that could multiple fire lasers miles away.

Once Tarkin died though, and all the other Moffs, Vader became number 2.

This is like asking why james bond has to take orders from a British General.

Vader was an agent and a tool. he wasn't a politician nor a particularly capable commander.

His role was dealing with more esoteric threats to the empire

Why would they give him such unique character design if they didn't plan on him becoming the main villain of the OT?

>all the other Moffs

Other Moffs were busy ruling their own parts of the Empire.

Also, Vader was number two from the get go, Tarkin got the Death Star because it was his idea, he was best chums with the Emperor and Vader didn't want it as is evident by his contempt for its engineers.

It wasn't supposed to be a trilogy at first.

>Episode IV
>Vader respects chain of command
>answers to Tarkin
>only chokes a nigga when he directly insults him
>lets him go when told to

>Episode V
>Vader only answers to the Emperor
>kills every grey uniform in fucking sight for literally no reason

People like to say that the prequel trilogy is where the Mary Sue-ing of Vader started. NOPE.

That's not what Mary Sue means, you retard.

Also what is the chain of command? Where does Vader fall in?

Even in the alternate sequel, Splinter of the Minds Eye, Vader is the main villain. Lucas always wanted to make sequels, it's just that he made stuff up as he went along so it doesn't fit together in hindsight.

Darth Vader is basically a Warhammer 40k Commissar :
>Commissars are tasked with the duty to maintain the morale of the troops during their massive campaigns, often in the face of staggering casualties. The Commissar is empowered to use any means necessary to ensure the loyalty and moral purity of his or her charges, including overriding or even executing a regiment's commanding officer if necessary, and so is regarded with a mixture of fear and admiration by rank-and-file Guardsmen -- and not a few of their officers.

Vader is second only to the Emperor in ESB.

Grand Muff Tarkin pulled so much tail the Emperor wouldn't fuck with his game. Actually he was modeled after the third reich's federal governorship program. Grand Moff would be like a Riechslieter in Nazi Germany and they all report directly to Hitler.

After the Death Star's destruction, the Emperor obviously saw that drastic measures would need to be taken to crush the rebellion, so he let Vader off the proverbial leash. Ironically, this would lead to his death and the end of the Empire.

I believe the official explanation is that Tarkin was in charge of the Death Star and Vader respected his authority there.

Keep in mind that he is still called "Lord Vader" by high-ranking generals even in ANH so he obviously held a high rank.

>He was just a dog who went around and fucked shit up when shit needed to be fucked up.
>The writers kinda forgot about this in the subsequent films.

autistic head canon

he obviously ranked very high in the empire

>Vader showed no political skills at all,

what political skills tarkin showed???

Dude, Tarkin blew up a planet just because he felt like being an asshole that day. He's even less diplomatic than Vader.

The feeling I got from IV was that Vader was just an oppurtunistic military officer who distinguished himself in battle or something and was and was allowed to part of administrative affairs.

In the infamous choking scene, its made clear that the officers only tolerate his presence there. "Oh look its that brutish soldier that alledgedly can do shit with his mind. Look at him sitting their in his bulky armor among us clean cut bureaucrats"

At the end of IV, he is even right down there in the trenches fighting alongside his men.

But as the series goes on, and Luke and the crew are rising through the ranks of the rebels and becoming more famous, Vader himself was rising through the ranks of the empire. He goes from being insulted in boardroom meetings in the first movie, to answering directly to the emperor in the second, to the very last film, where he is standing right at the emperors side. It was escalating on both sides, Luke growing as a hero and Vader growing as a villain until the final clash.

But then the prequels came along and made it so Vader and Sheev were just always best pals.

You guys know that Nazi Germany was a competing duality, right? You had the traditional wehrmacht of professional, lifelong soldiers and the SS who were political idealists bent on making Hitler Emperor.

This is the model you need to understand going in to Star Wars.

There's a general rank but Tarkin was in charge of this mission as the death star was under his command ever since he took it from do you feel in charge man. I'm more confused as to why he didn't leave the death star when the rebels were attacking, given he knew they had the plans to the death star and were attacking the same spot in an organised formation.

>it was his idea

How could Darth Vader in the presence of his child and torture her and not know?

Nah, the original screenplay mentions the sith lord stuff.

he was high in the way a captain is to a general. He could probably order troopers around but it would explain why he was still able to choke someone with the force without everyone throwing him in a brig. plus in the original they made it seem like the force is still really powerful despite people in tune with it being rare so the rest of the guys in the room seemed cool with it. Plus the older ones also knew about it

>But then the prequels came along and made it so Vader and Sheev were just always best pals.

That was already established in the OT.
"Raise, my friend."

darth vader is *not* anakin

Rise*

You dipshits are utterly ignorant of history. George Lucas created nothing. He stole everything he wrote and you fucking people are simple enough to ignore that.

is this one of those jewish 'you don't own nothing goyim!' tricks, JJ?

I like it. It's better than the whole 'many Jedi but only two Sith' thing they have going as well.

The entire Star Wars canon is built on Nazi Germany and you fucking ignorant assholes fail to realize it. THAT is what I'm saying. You're too stupid to realize how stupid you are. You're meta-stupid.

Because in rought draft Vader was degrated officer into stormtrooper that's why he was supposed to wear armor(stormtrooper captain armor). They changed it during the production.

>If I keep calling them stupid then I'll be the smart one

Yes. Nobody in this thread has used the structure of Nazi Germany to explain how Vader fits in. Absolutely nobody.

>fictional universes have a lot of similarities to real life ones
Damn bro you are blowing my mind. Did you know Game of Thrones is based off medieval england?

There was also that officer on tantive IV that argued with him.

Seems more like the American Revolution. The Empire are all British-sounding imperialists which exert their strength with the strongest navies in the galaxy. The Rebels are young American-sounding men from farms and peasant backgrounds who band together for independence.

do any of you assholes know the difference between military authority and government?

He was second to Emperor in Sith hierarchy but not Imperial military.

Geprge Lucas said the empire was america and the rebels were the vietnamese uniting to fight them off

I don't know how young you idiots are, should I just guess? You're all dull people, I'm just acting like the history channel for the lower curve.

Sheev was JFK and Vader was Lee Harvey Oswald.

I get the feeling that the Emperor wasn't as reliant on Vader to lead the Imperial Navy and Army when the Rebels were still a minor threat. When the Rebels proved that they could destroy assets like the Death Star, he decided that people like Tarkin and Krennic were too caught up in politics and bureaucracy to get things done right. Vader cuts through the red tape and makes the Imperial war machine more efficient as a result. Effective commanders like Piett were unlikely to rise up the ladder as fast as they did if it wasn't for Vader killing every disappointment he ran into.

That's all headcanon, though.

Now you're just those people who live in Alabama. America looks at you like you're in Africa.

This same statement can be made for Darth Maul, George Lucas dont give a fuck

People need to remember that not everything is animal farm.
Works of fiction do not usually have a 1:1 correspondence to any real life event.

Elements from nazi germany, the soviet union, the american revolution, the samurai era, the knight errents were all mixed together to create something new without any reguard for consistancy.


Although, everyone seems to be forgetting a major event that probably influenced the storyline.
The trilogy was written around the time that the soviets were moving into the middle east. Images of desert landscapes, robed rebels, and the red army dominated the news at that time.
The idea of desert rebels fighting off an evil empire would have struck a chord with audiences at that time.

Go watch Charlie Wilson's War like an asshole. Why do you people exist.

This. There was no Nazi Vader.

Chris Weitz disagrees with you.

I dont think you know what that word means contrarian

Yeah but that cuck got btfo'd by disney

>darth vader is *not* anakin
yes he is

>white supremacists
>ginger as their leader

If the Emperor is literally Hitler, then who was Vader? Tarkin is obviously Wilhelm Keitel, as he was the highest ranking military officer in the German military.

>Politics with Rebel scum
To what end?
He did what he had to, Leia forced his hand.
Spare a planet and spoil the people.

Did the Jews just confirm that whites are the only real humans?

Vader is obviously Hermann Goring.
>Fighter Ace
>In control of Luftwaffe
>Wanted to assume control of the Reich
>Died

Vader's authority is derived entirely from the Emperor. It's a method of control the Emperor uses over him as without him Vader is nothing.

There's an arc in the comics where after the death star blows up the Emperor decides that Vader no longer has any power, so all the other Imperial generals start bossing him around and abusing him. Some even conspire to kill him.

On the death star, the emperor stipulated that Vader was lower in rank to Tarkin who was in command of all affairs regarding the station.

This chaotic, contextual method of chain of command is actually something the Nazi's did, particularly in the SS, as everyone was so untrustworthy and self-serving that Hitler could only ensure loyalty by tying individual projects to your authority and rank.

For instance in 1941, Ukraine SS boss SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Richard Hildebrandt was above Ukraine Reich Governor Erich Koch in authority. However both were inferior in power/rank to Erich von Manstein who wasn't even a Field Marshal yet but was overseeing military operations there.

I'm off topic here, but this is one of the big reasons Germany had such bad strategic operational decision-making during the war.

Goring was a fat moron who constantly made bad decisions. Also mocked by everyone in the Luftwaffe whereas Vader was feared.

Literally the only reason Goring got anywhere was because he was Hitler's friend and nepotism.

>Literally the only reason Vader got anywhere was because he was Sheev's apprentice and nepotism.
Really made me think.

Sounds just like Vader. Until Hitler made the stupid decision to turn on Russia, Goring was in good favor with the Fuhrer and all of Germany. He knew nothing but success up until that point. It was Hitler's own stupid decision to invade Russia (Endor) that lead to his defeat.

Except Vader was an actual badass that could fuck up anyone in the galaxy except Sheev.

Hitler followed his advice to use the air force to try and destroy the allied forces at dunkirk which was a disaster

Also he showed terrible leadership in the failure that was the battle of britain

>be pure evil
>be emperor's right hand
>literally can kill anyone at will
>accepts orders for anyone but the emperor

Bravo Nolan

Hitler made a lot of bad decisions. That's Hitler's mistake.

Not everything can be 100% allegorical.

He was a peasant in war in every way. Fucked up in france, fucked up in russia. ALL of the generals knew he was an idiot. He was a peasant leading Germany.

That's literally what Soviet Commissars did during the Winter War and WW2.

Hitler was the Trump of Germany.

Soviets were never good at strategy or tactics. The only reason Russia still exists is that they have nothing of value worth taking and they're surrounded by millions of square miles of frozen nothingness.

Somebody ain't heard of the Tarkin doctrine

>
>That's literally what Soviet Commissars did during the Winter War and WW2.
I'm more familiar with 40k lore than our own world's history then.
Point being, Vader does whatever the fuck he wants as long as it fulfils the emperor's will.
He has no problem choking high ranked officers but doesn't bully tarkin because tarkin isn't doing anything that goes against vader's mission

Hitler got shit done. Completely disregarding his genius in politics and his rise to power, he made some good military calls.

When Manstein submitted his proposal for the invasion of France (as a lowly staff officer attached to one of the army groups in the west) it somehow reached Hitler's eyes and changed everything to fit that plan, much to the protest of much of his general staff. Sending Guderian and Rommel's panzer divisions through the Ardenne was an extreme risk but it paid off as it allowed them to drive to the sea and cut off the BEF and trap them in the Arras pocket. France would not have fallen were it not for Hitler's executive decision to go ahead with Case Yellow.

And Barbarossa went astoundingly well in the beginning, though it did bog down towards the first winter.
Actually Hitler is responsible for saving Army Group Center during the Soviet counterattack at Moscow. Hitler ordered that his men hold their positions near the city even though most of his ranking generals in the area wanted to fall back. If they had indeed done that the front would most likely have collapsed and multiple field armies would have been surrounded.
So he may have made some bad decisions, but he also made some good ones as well. I find it funny that he is portrayed as a buffoon by certain (((interests))), when he was much more competent that most would think.

Tell that to the 6th Army in 1942 and all the divisions of Army Group Center stationed in Belarus in 1944.

>he made some good military calls.
Yeah, attacking an ally that had no intention of entering the war was sure a good idea... Hitler lost WW2 because he was stupid as fuck.

Because the series was still being written as it was being made.

Vader started as a no body that looked cool and ended up as a demi god chosen one.

He's like a high ranking CIA operator. He can do whatever the fuck he wants, but when he's on a military base he still has to behave.

Well Stalingrad is universally cited as the reason for Hitler being a poor strategic commander. The battle itself was necessary though not allowing the 6th army to withdraw when it could and attempting to supply it by air was ludicrous.

Bagration is really what broke the Heer's back so honestly by that point nothing would have mattered.

>Yeah, attacking an ally that had no intention of entering the war was sure a good idea
And who would this be?
>inb4 the Soviet Union

What a smug piece of shit.

Because he literally didn't know? I'm not even sure if he even know that he has TWO kids.

Leia wasn't his kid in ANH.
Only with ESB/RotJ was that brought into the picture.
Lucas was flying by the seat of his pants in terms of storyline. There was no solid 4-5-6 storyline beyond the standard hero story.

>forgot about this in the subsequent films
>forgot
retard

>can't best Britain
>invade USSR
>can't beat USSR
>declare war on US

What a genius mind. What could possibly go wrong

Vader respects Tarkin

>fuck your country over with moronic decisions
>use the ((())) scapegoat

This. But the military's overconfidence and ignorance cost them the Death Star so there was zero sense in giving a fuck about the admirals and not choking them when they were fucking up in sequels.

>Conquers almost all of Europe
>Takes the creation of two military superpowers to take him down
>stupid as fuck

Nigga get the fuck outta here.

No he didn't

Vader was the Chief of staff, not the deputy emperor.

Vader respected tarkin, he knew him back from the clone wars, besides if any moff or imperial general would try any shady stuff they would be disposed quickly without any second thought, because in the end the empire is about the sith, the rest are assets nothing more

>second to only the Emperor
he doesn't even has a college degree, why would anyone gave a brute that only knows how to fight the tittle of vice-emperor?

he's an admiral, as in captain of multiple ships.An admiral that can read minds and see the future is quiet the advantage over the rebellion

Cause Star Wars was originally made as fast action flick aimed at a younger audience and was never destined to be overscrutinized, really why aren't you morons not into something worthy of this over analyzing like Dune?

Because they didn't know he was gonna become their breakout character. That's why you see him killing a bunch of officers later on in the sequels.

Nah, I think it's sorta like the SS and the Wehrmacht during WW2. The Army (especially the old type Prussian officers) didn't really like the SS but they were valued for their fanaticism and loyalty.

Darth Vader (and various others in New Canon) are pretty much like the SS: outside of normal military command but have an equivalent to high military rank or at least can assume command of military assets "because the Emprah wills it!"