Let's talk about religion.
The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
Atheism or belief in a god does not stereotype someone into a category of human being or how miserable or great their life will be subsequently.
Dinosaurs were real and there is more evidence that they existed than the story of creation.
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
patheos.com
ucg.org
twitter.com
Religion was just a tool used for people to explain things they couldn't understand, along with simple life lessons based on experience of the author(s). The issue with religion as time went on is the dogma attached to it, and people in power believing that they have the right interpretation and only them. It allows something for people to hide behind and justify their cruel actions at it's worst, and just something to uplift and keep people going at it's best.
As a young fool, I used to despise religion. Now as an older fool, I understand it's a necessary evil.
Belief is a beneficial evolutionary trait.
As long as that trait is with us, we need religion. Abandon one, and people will create another, usually even more retarded than the first.
How about belief in facts?
Daily reminder, anti-religion (specifically anti-Christianity) is the tool of Zionism and Communism used specifically to undermine western civilization.
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
Irrelevant
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
False.
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
False.
>Atheism or belief in a god does not stereotype someone into a category of human being or how miserable or great their life will be subsequently.
Obviously.
>Dinosaurs were real and there is more evidence that they existed than the story of creation.
Two unrelated thought in the same sentence.
You don't want to talk about religion, you want to spout shit and rile people up.
Jesus could turn a table, fact.
Facts are only what other people believe to be true.
And how is the age of the planet irrelevant?
There isn't much historical evidence for Jesus. There is some, this is not false.
Dinosaurs and religion are highly related.
Wtf are you smoking? I want some.
Prove Jesus existed, also, not really aiming to rile people up, just speaking facts.
Also atheism is a religion and a belief system, otherwise you're agnostic.
facts are spooks
There are subjective facts and objective facts.
Objective facts are true regardless of what you want to believe.
When discussing religion, would talk about the age of the Earth be a pretty valid and /not/ irrelevant point considering most religions, especially Christianity, consider the Earth to be much younger? The rest of what you said is just so out there, I'll give you a bit to think it through
people will worship some 2000 year old dead jew zombie god, if you say anything against it you're a fedora-wearing autist, apparently.
There's plenty of evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as a human being. Denying it does not make it so. Whether he was the son of God or any sort of prophet is entirely up for debate.
>Also atheism is a religion and a belief system, otherwise you're agnostic.
You're literally just arguing semantics. Atheism is not a religion. There is no organized system of beliefs or worship.
Bringing up the age of the Earth in a discussion about religion is extremely nitpicky to the point of being childish. If you want to pick apart the glaring flaws in Christianity, try picking on something that is part of the core of the belief system and not simply a side note.
>ITT
>Christianity and Islam are the same because they're both "abrahamic" and I'm a fedora lord
>Dinosaurs
You guys I am here to preach to you, as a modern day gatherer in the streets, I will revelate to you wisdom.
Dinosaurs were very strong psychics, and they could see into the future.
Also, ITT I answer all religious questions.
I'm not denying his existence, he could have been real, but there is no proof, certainly not enough to say his existence is a fact. It's unfortunate, but one must prove something exists first before you can claim I'm denying his existence.
All it would take is one group of atheists who get together and worship something (like D&D) to prove you wrong, luckily i actually know a group who do just that.
The age of the Earth is very relevant to religion, understanding how the Earth was formed and it's age fundamentally destroys a majority of modern belief systems outright. It also makes creationism basically impossible to believe in.
If atheists are getting together and worshiping something they aren't atheists. They are theists. Try to not be so retarded, please.
They are same in many parts, the only difference is Christians ignore their commandments while some muslims act upon it. Go try to be gay and/or Atheist in 6th century Roman Empire or belong to a wrong sect in 16-17th century europe.
Thank """"god""" christians began to ignore them, but then again I have seen christians who said they agree with ISIS on methodology and only disagree in ideology,so there's that. I just hope islam will have a kind of reformation you had (or have it again, as it was less radical few decades ago)
i fuckin love dinosaurs
a theist believes in a god or god(s), worship of something isn't relegated to only a god.
A flaw is a flaw irregardless, and when it comes to Christians denying Evolution, the age of the Earth is one of the first points brought up.
As for you thinking that Atheism as a religion is just semantics, you are aware that people get together in large groups (like congregation) and talk about their belief in there being no God. That's about as close as getting to a religion as you can get.
Evidence or real world truths are irrelevant
In the case of christianity the bible is merely a collection of stories by different author using recurring characters some stories being historical occurances with rather out of proportion embellishments as well as complete works of fiction with an underlying theme or message.
I don't believe in any of it but I have a respect for the christian faith as western civilization has been founded upon christian ideals and if you disagree you can at the very least agree that christianity has played a large role in shaping western civilization.
Prove to me your great great grandfather existed.
Did Buddha exist?
It is a logical fallacy to assume that because a religion is wrong about one thing it is wrong about everything. The age of the Earth is irrelevant. You cannot point to the age of the Earth and say "See, because this is wrong your entire argument falls apart" because their argument (religion) has no basis on the age of the earth.
Arguing about the age of the Earth is childish, pointless, and irrelevant.
preach
I believe the Roman Empire had a bigger influence in Western civilization than Christianity did overall, and especially in American culture, but i do appreciate its influence as major.
The Adam and Eve story is not correct. Somebody made it up. God doesn't work like that, he makes reasonable conceptions.
If you want to know the real story, I'll tell you.
Does anybody have that pic comparing protestants vs christians, with the catholic quote describing the earth being built in 7 days as a metaphor and it being in fancy font, while the protestant quote was the earth was built in 7 days and dinosaurs didn't exist etc etc and was in comic sans
Please respond, pic unrelated
Sure, he has remains, and there are plenty of records like his social security number and death certificate.
Find me one hard piece of evidence that Jesus existed. Even something he actually wrote would be a start.
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
How can anyone be this stupid.
Actually the age of the Earth is massively relevant. I don't know what you're doing saying it's not relevant, expand on that please.
How can anyone be this ignorant.
It's really just understanding where lies begin and the truth starts, most of what we know about Jesus are accounts written 200 years after his death, hard proof of his existence has actually been a serious endeavor for at least the last 500 years, and nothing has been found. He is about as real as mithra at this this point.
You guys I have visions of the past, I can tell you more of the bible and it's stories.
What about Muslims? They believe in him.
Show me them. Show me real proof,like something he actually wrote.
Was Buddha real?
Atheism is the rejection of God and religion.
So how the fuck is it a religion?
if someone want push that 2+2=5 is a fact and they push it real hard, it maybe become a fact
I don't know how much more you could possibly want expanded.
Name me a single religion in which the age of the Earth is part of the core belief system and disproving their claims about the age thus disproves the entire religion.
You could prove that Jesus did not exist and disprove Christianity. You could somehow prove that Mohamed was not a prophet of Allah and disprove Islam. You could prove many things about different religions to disprove that particular religion, but proving something about the age of the Earth is utterly irrelevant.
It's a massive false equivalence to compare my great grandfather to a 2000 year old legend whom nobody has been able to find hard proof existed for over 500 years.
Also, i don't know, i have not studied Buddhism enough to claim either way. I know woefully little about southeast asian culture and religion.
Paul was real, James was real, Pontius Pilot was real, Josephus was real. Few other people who were real and all wrote about Jesus.
Protip: what the disciples wrote did not come 200 years after Jesus was crucified, unless you want to believe they lived for hundreds of years.
The Egyptian Coptic Church was founded in 39 A.D. I believe, only a few years after Jesus was crucified.
You would have to call all of these people liars to justify your position.
lol
I don't think so.
>feign ignorance so I don't expose my retardation
I didn't expect anything more from you.
im talking about tranys and all that leftist shit, maybe you are one of them, and i get you man, fuck up the world as hard as you can
>Name me a single religion in which the age of the Earth is part of the core belief system and disproving their claims about the age thus disproves the entire religion.
Christianity's creation theory, and a good core of it's beliefs therin. It's not really childish, it's axiomatic how old the earth is and that we evolved, if this isn't what you believe then that statement wasn't addressing you.
You don't have to believe in facts, they're facts.
If I'm standing in my driveway looking at my truck, I don't need to believe it's there, I can see it.
Right now, I can't see my truck, but I believe it's still there.
Belief is a part of being human; religion is group belief.
You're not making sense. Try logic.
If you can't see how people have made it a primary belief with the same severity as Christians or whomever, then there's no point in trying to explain it to you.
Prove Jesus was real, that is all i ask. Written accounts after his death are not evidence to the scientific community.
He might have been, but he also might be just a story as well.
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
which is like saying not voting is a political party
You don't have to believe in facts, they don't really care.
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
There is plenty of evidence of the HISTORICAL Jesus of Nazareth and his life being very real. The Bible is not upheld by the faith of the believer but by external credibility.
The cities, towns, roads, and historical figures in those places were all real. Pontius Pilate, Herod Antipas, Tiberus Ceasar, the Jewish Pharisees and Saducees, were all real.
Take this verse for example
> Luke 3:1 -In the fifteenth year of the reign of Ti·be′ri·us Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Ju·de′a, and Herod was district ruler of Gal′i·lee, but Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of It·u·rae′a and Trach·o·ni′tis, and Ly·sa′ni·as was district ruler of Ab·i·le′ne, 2in the days of chief priest An′nas and of Ca′ia·phas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zech·a·ri′ah in the wilderness.
That's incredibly detailed and matches archeology perfect and secular chronology and geopolitical history perfectly.
This is just a fraction of the evidence and credibility that leads to Jesus.
False equivalence.
There's more factual evidence for Jesus existing than for someone like aristotle desu
Evidence, not hearsay please. And the bible is not evidence for anything. It's a collection of fables.
I want real evidence, not faith.
What do you consider as proof of Jesus? As far as I'm concerned, according to what i think your standards of "proof" are, your grandpa wasn't real. Just prove to me your grandpa was real, that is all I ask.
Do you really not understand his point? You have people arrogantly laughing in that same manner you laugh at "2+2=5", only they do so at people who claim that your genitals determine your sex because they've been taught otherwise by society. 'Facts' are a dodgy area once neoliberalism deconstructs concepts and exaggerates outliers to the point that nothing matters.
That being said religion is no different in this regard: globalism, liberalism, etc. can be forced via Christian narratives.
Creationism isn't a core belief of Christianity, though. Christianity is about the life of Christ and how not to be a terrible human being. The age of the Earth is not relevant. Christians everwhere could decide to rewrite the bible without Genesis, the Pope could come out and say "Yeah, we were wrong about creationism", and the entire rest of the religion would be utterly unaffected.
How in the fuck can you possibly claim that the age of the Earth has any sort of significant effect on anything religious? Please, enlighten me. I've been doing my best to explain why I think you're wrong; I want to understand why you think you're right.
Unlike Jesus, nobody cares if Aristotle was real or not, because the teachings surrounding the idea of him are what actually matter, unlike with Jesus and zealots.
Also, you are not part of the scientific community, and the scientific community is not one person.
en.wikipedia.org
My standards of proof align with the scientific community and i would even be willing to drop it to the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt"
You can't provide either for the existence of Jesus, so i admit it was loaded.
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
Probably.
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
Wrong.
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
Yes. Most do tend to start worshipping the state or base hedonism.
>Atheism or belief in a god does not stereotype someone into a category of human being or how miserable or great their life will be subsequently.
Religious engagement and well-being have a positive correlation though, mainly for the sense of community involvement one can also find in nationalism. If you want to practice lip-service faith, that's not a horrible thing.
>Dinosaurs were real and there is more evidence that they existed than the story of creation.
Nobody thinks the "days" in the story of creation were literally 24 actual hours. 2 Peter says that time has no meaning in the celestial plane.
2+2=4
2+2=/=5
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I don't care if you use black magic.
Your biology book is not evidence for anything. It's a collection of fables.
>a collection of fables.
Considering it talks about nothing but real people, and real places in the NT, I'm gonna have to stop you there.
...
You want jewish historical sources that Jesus existed? Read josephus' works. Want Roman sources? Read tacitus' works. It's pretty much universally agreed that Jesus existed, the debate is on whether or not he actually did spooky religion shit
If the bible can be rewritten so easily then it is not a reliable source of information for anyone.
The Earths age is relevant to modern day religion because nobody is going to rewrite the bible just to say "oh, it doesn't matter, we fixed it" And if that does happen, it makes Christianity uncredible.
So basically Jesus showing up and telling you "HEY! I'm real." is the only thing which constitutes as proof?
Do you believe in Dinosaurs?
so are history books useless now too
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old
>Dating surface rock is an accurate and definitive measure of the entire planet's age
If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it, really there is no such thing as subjective reality.
You have no way of proving that anything exists other than showing that it behaves in such a way that humans have deemed to be proof of it's existence. Why exactly does being able to touch something mean it's real?
There's no way for you to definitively prove to yourself that everything you have ever experienced is anything more than your imagination.
The scientific community is a conglomeration of many different people with many different beliefs. I do research at a university, i understand science and the scientific method, and while i do not speak for the scientific community whatsoever, i do participate and know what is required for proof.
I believe in Dinosaurs, and no, even something he wrote would be enough.
History books?
History books go out of date every year with new discoveries, and they would not argue history from a religious standpoint, but a scientific one (at least most of them anyway).
The fuck are you talking about? The bible was never meant to be a "reliable source of information". The bible is nothing more than a collection of letters and stories written by a dozen different people.
I think you have a fundamentally flawed perception of what the bible is. If Jesus wanted us to have a flawless recollection of his life, he would have written it himself. If God wanted us to have a strict set of rules to follow, he could have carved them in to the side of a mountain. Instead we have the bible.
The god of the gap argument is a flawed understanding of quantum mechanics.
Good luck!
That is because of your values. You value mathematic truth and you've been taught addition in what I as well would consider to be the proper manner. For all intents and purposes, your assumption is right. You are, however, assuming that everyone taught 'facts' will then come to reasonable, similar conclusions. This can't be further from the truth, because in a belief system based upon fact where academia is the church, fact and opinion can be intermixed freely.
Have you ever seen a dinosaur?
How would we know he actually wrote it? You don't even believe people who wrote about him, do you really expect any of us to believe that if we had something Jesus did write and we said, "Hey, here it is, something Jesus wrote." that you would believe that?
>religion gives humans an evolutionary advantage.
>Religion is a coping mechanism to help deal with the harsh world.
Ever notice how at peace religions people are and how hateful self-proclaimed atheists are? Humans evolved to need religion/spirituality.
So you admit the bible is just a collection of legends, not based in truth?
Science answers way more questions about our existence, philosophy can help you with morality. Jesus was a philosopher, he never needed a church or the old testament sticked onto him.
You can't argue God's motives without proving him first, best of luck.
I believe in facts with evidence, i do not believe in nonsense, this is correct.
I've seen dinosaur fossils which is far more than what exists for evidence of Jesus, also, dinosaurs disprove your creation theory, Best of luck with your next claim.
>Atheism is not a religion. There is no organized system of beliefs or worship.
Bullshit.
Those who call themselves Athiests have very distinct manners of dress and appearance.
They most often believe that everyone is exactly the same, that anthropogenic climate change is holy truth, that white people are evil, and that everyone who thinks otherwise is a heathen.
Self proclaimed athiests have even started their own churches, where they gather to compare clothing and talk shit about other religions, just like every other religion does.
As I said earlier, belief is an evolutionary trait, and religion is the way it's expressed in a group.
See also, scientology and mormonism.
>Evidence, not hearsay please.
>I want real evidence, not faith.
Archeology, written historical events, and geopolitics IS evidence. You can find the names of those people written in ancient relics and buildings in archeological finds. Jesus interacted with Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Ceasar. Listen to this Roman historian who was not a fan of Jesus said.
Roman historian Tacitus, who was no friend of Christianity. Writing soon after 100C.E., he tells of Nero’s cruel persecution of the Christians and adds:
>“Christus(Christ), the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious superstition was checked for a moment, only to break out once more, not merely in Judaea, the home of the disease, but in the capital [Rome] itself.”
Look how he calls Christianity a "disease." This historian was no fan of Jesus, Christians, and Jews. However, he has no choice but to acknowledge their existence.
How do you know those fossils are real? Were you there when they were excavated?
You're telling me there is Archaeological evidence that Jesus exists? please show me.
It's just allegory.
You mean like all those people killed in the name of religion? Even recently? Try harder.
>So you admit the bible is just a collection of legends, not based in truth?
Yes, of course. I've never once denied it.
>Science answers way more questions about our existence
Sure, but science didn't exist 2000 years ago.
>philosophy can help you with morality
Philosophy has existed then and exists now, and only helps a very few, very introspective people. The vast majority of people will never once stop to think even one second about philosophy.
>You can't argue God's motives without proving him first, best of luck.
I've never once sought to. For what its worth, I'm just an atheist who thinks you're retarded.
What do you consider evidence is nonsense
It seems you're misunderstanding his regard for religion as a necessary evil. The concern isn't with an individual, but with a society.
Years studying science and fact checking.
Go to sleep child, Dinosaurs believe in you.
So what exactly is your argument? You're all over the place.
Also, god has no place in a scientific debate, stop it.
How do you know those facts weren't just made up to convince you the fossils are real and not man made?
Science are just fallible measures and arbirtary thresholds, they don't really have any value.
You're taking the actions of a few individuals and making claims about all of them. There are, by some estimates, nearly a billion atheists and these crazy fucks account for a few hundred thousand, at best.
