1. Pelé Didn't Officially Score 1,283 Goals Pelé did score 1,283 goals, but 526 goals came in unofficial friendlies and tour games. He even counted games he played for the Sixth Coast Guard in the military competition. He officially scored 757 goals in 812 games. Also some dickhead will eventually mention that he scored 8 against botafogo. The eight goals Pelé scored against Botafogo didn't come against THE Botafogo. It came against a shitty side from sau paulo bearing the same name.
2. Pelé needs a reality check regarding his FIFA World Cup achievements. Most world cup goals - Miroslav Klose -16. (Pele is 5th with 12) Most world cup goals in one tournament - Just Fontaine - 13 (1958 world cup) Most world cup games - Lothar Matthäus - 25 Most world cup games won - Cafu - 16 He was joint second top goalscorer in 1958 with 6 goals. The other man being German Helmut Rahn. He injured himself in the second game of 1962 while attempting a long-range shot against Czechoslovakia. The team went on to win without him. 1970 world cup top scorer was Gerd Muller with 10, 2nd Jairzinho (Brasil) with 7 goals, 3rd a Peruvian player with 5, Pele was joint 4th with 4 goals.
3. Pele played with historic teammates When Pelé compiled his 125 greatest living footballers list, he didn't include many of his teammates. Regarding the teammates that made the cut: There are two of the greatest right-backs ever Carlos Alberto and Djalma Santos. Then there is one of the greatest left-backs ever Nílton Santos. Here are Pelé's teammates who were ineligible for his list: Garrincha (inspired Brazil to win the 1962 FIFA World Cup), Vavá (scored five in 1958 WC) and Didi (1958 World Cup Golden Ball winner). Pelé shockingly omitted teammates: Gérson, Jairzinho, Gilmar, Tostão, Zito, Bellini and Zagallo. I read into the omissions as Pelé's way of downplaying his teammate's role in his success.
4. His club career It gets even more hilarious when you look at his club record. The only relevant thing he won was the copa libertadores in 1962 and 63. Other than these two tournaments. Uruguayan and Argentinian teams would dominate this championship during pele's career. He also won the intercontinental cup in 62 and 63. These were only two-legged matches between 1 team from Europe and one from South America. Here is a nice read on the 1963 competition.
A long time ago tbqh. Anyone who believes his stats is deluded. He was a great player, no doubt. But those numbers are obviously inflated
Levi Butler
He's like TSU. Not actually a GOAT, but marketing himself very well and skilled in stepping on others' backs to reach as high as possible.
Landon Carter
>marketing himself ??
>skilled in stepping on others' backs to reach as high as possible. Ah yes, everyone knows the might of such legends of the game as Bruno Alves, Nani & Hélder Postiga.
Jack Anderson
You're precisely proving his point. With Bruno Alves and & co. he goes out in group stages to the US. With Modric, Ramos, etc. he wins everything.
Aaron Adams
Are you really this dense? >Plays with shit players MY GOD RONALDO HASN'T SINGLE HANDEDLY WON A WORLD CUP HE IS TERRIBLE
Leo Diaz
Damm that was an unironically good post, Harry. I respect the legends from the past but the overrating of some of them is insane.
Nolan Price
I honestly cannot fathom how stupid you really must be Nigel
Isaac Richardson
You're a retard who thinks football is about dribbling the entire team and scoring like a one man army.
Nolan Cooper
Ronaldo Ronaldinho Zico Romário Garrincha Rivaldo And now Neymar
All those are brazilians better than Pelé. If we start listing players from other countries, the list would be huge.
Carter Allen
Wew what a comeback!
Tyler Morgan
Europeans don't realize how insane the Monkey League was back in the days.
You had players on Zidane's level, like Ademir da Guia, who couldn't even make it in the NT.
Pelé won the league 5 times, with a team not as good as Palmeiras' 1st or 2nd academy GOAT squads.
Sebastian Sanchez
Because it's hard to argue with someone too retarded to understand an argument
Stay mad customer
Brody Young
Ok I'll give him credit for that.
Kevin Cox
You didn't even have a national league until like 1967, I thought.
Noah Gutierrez
Sao Paulo championship was basically the league.
Palmeiras, Sao Paulo FC, Corinthians, Santos, as well as lesser ones.
Then you had the Sao Paulo - Rio tournament, where these SP teams competed with the Rio teams of Flamengo and Fluminense and Botafogo.
That's 7 incredibly stacked teams with GOATs in most positions.
Austin Garcia
Also the national league started in 1959 (taça Brasil), so you had SP league, Taça, RJ-SP tournament, etc.
Several tough competitions at once.
Isaac Gonzalez
/thread
inb4 bitter paki,mudslime, spic shitskins
Brandon Parker
>taça Brasil That was the cup. Didn't it get expanded in '67 and that was the first national league.
>Sao Paulo championship The Torneio Rio – São Paulo? That was like 7-8 games a season.
Gabriel Cooper
The league got properly consolidated after, because it was unfeasible for some reason for Southern teams to venture deep into the monkey lands for games.
Anyway, my point is, it wasn't a team of part-time plumbers in BR as opposed to elite players in Europe.
Also the reason these players didn't go to Europe is because at the time the salaries were good in BR, and life was pleasant (military dictatorship did not let dindus chimp out and shoot everyone, was pretty safe to live in).
This is a footy thread, what are you doing here Tyrone.
Austin Gomez
>le no argument monkey Can you explain why "teams full of GOATs" always lost to Argentinian and Uruguayan teams
Easton Sanchez
Sure. Uruguay and Argentina also had many top players. Libertadores was not as important as domestic competitions.
Argentina and Uruguay had their best players concentrated in less teams than Brazil where they were scattered.
Maybe some choking as well, probably match fixing too.
BR won 5 world cups senpai, if other countries were better then people would know.
Jose Rivera
Watch the old tapes - there was literally no defense. It's absurd.
Maradonna is another case of myth and reality being far apart.
Dominic White
>Libertadores was not as important as domestic competitions. >intercontinental was not as important as
Sebastian Martin
Because Argentina and Uruguay were also forces in those days. Brazilians are deluded as fuck for anything from their shithole or their ancestral home moortugal
Carson Robinson
>t. Argentiniger with proxy
Caleb Morales
World Cup and Champion's league are the only international competition people give a shit about desu
William Moore
>Libertadores was not as important as domestic competitions. >intercontinental was not as important as the European cup So we can all agree that those Pele matches against Euro teams were an absolute meme? I am just using your logic
Wyatt Sanders
not as important =/= absolute meme
John Jackson
So Argentinian teams were better than Huezilian teams? Glad that we can agree
Leo Hernandez
who knows
what matters is, when stakes were high (world cup), BR>ARG
Isaiah Green
Brazil has 200M people. No wonder that thry beat Argentina(40M people) in WCs. Still the Brazilian leagur was shit and Pele's WCs were in the fluky meme format
Joshua Bailey
i don't get why you think your opinion has any value
unless you're mexican and acting in spic solidarity
you have to go back pablo
Cameron Howard
yeah, same goes for Maradonna, also not that impressive really. both of them look pretty pale compared to Messi and Ronaldo.
but the thing is that messi and ronaldo are breeded footballers, who both are concentrating 100% on their footballing careers since before they hit puberty and since then they have all sorts of experts around them all trying to develop them as perfectly as possible. Then when their career starts both dedicate their life 100% to football to squeeze out the last bit of performance out of them.
Back in the day guys like Johann Cruyff used to smoke in the halftime brake and players got shitfaced the night before important matches. Obviously, they were also not breeded for optimal performance since they are 8.
So there is really no point in comparing players from different eras. You dont know how good Pele would do if he was born 20 years ago, and you dont know how good Messi would if he was born 80 years ago.
William Martinez
...
Isaac Myers
So Freddy Adu WAS the next Pele after all!
Adam Morris
Not him but you are spic, you shitskin monkey
Nicholas Wood
>You dont know how good Pele would do if he was born 20 years ago, and you dont know how good Messi would if he was born 80 years ago. Pele would have a hard time making it past the age of 14. Messi on the other hand would still style all over the league since he relies on raw talent rather than actual training. Unfortunately he would have to participate in the midget league because no HGH. Plus, sprite wasnt invented back then so he might have thrown a tantrum
John Baker
>Uma delicia >Flag baiting Oh the irony. I am not even a burger
Jordan White
Actually, libertadores back then was quite irrelevant. Brazilian teams used to sent their bench to play these things.
757/812 is pretty impressive ratio. Almost 1 goal per game
Levi Jones
How many times are you fags gonna make this thread, fuck off
Brandon Reyes
(((THEY))) succeeded in their plans to make sure a black fraud was regarded the best player ever to play the game.
~Oy Vey~
Tyler Lewis
Go watch Kangoroo Boxe, Abonigger.
Grayson Martinez
Pretty much this. Socrates managed to play for Corinthians/BrNT while he was cruising through med school.
I was reading a book about the shits CBF did along the years and it told that Havelange was the first one to develop a support scheme actually oriented to football in the late 50s/early 60s. He was criticized as fuck for hiring masseurs and calisthenics teachers to get the players fit for game and after it worked, all the clubs followed him through.
Nathan Smith
People overrate old athletes in general. Think about it this way: 10 enter a tournament 10 times. they are part time at their sport. one player wins 7 tournament. the sport becomes yuuge and now tournaments are with 1000s of players and yet more 10000s in qualifying. one player wins 3 of those tournaments. Now who are the best player?
Football sucked dick when pele played. I remember seeing a progream were guys was sitting and hyping this goal as one of the greatest goals of all time. youtube.com/watch?v=QPzNStFGgno
Adam Robinson
Wtf I hate Pele now
Isaac Perry
Fat Ronaldo is GOAT.
Nathaniel Scott
>Just Fontaine
so he didn't have a first name?
Henry Wood
There's a reason people think Maradona is the GOAT
Benjamin Walker
This, he also had a patrician haircut.
Jack Murphy
Plus you had guys like Gascoigne who were literally alcoholics while still maintaining a fairly successful career.
Benjamin Watson
If Pele is a fraud, wtf is Maradona?
>Flop at Barcelona >pathetic in 82 world cup >only good at Napoli where people forget that team had some amazing players >actually GOAT at 86 WC >mediocre in 90 WC, only managed to get to the final thanks to their goalkeeper and drugging the opposition >shit at Sevilla >couldn't even play in the 94 WC because >drugs
Juan Wilson
Literally the Brazilian TSUnaldo. There is a reason he is a nigger, that he is shown in Los Simpsons taking money from doing retarded ads and that he is the bigger statpadder ever
Henry Robinson
I was also very impressed when I knew this. In Mexico, back in those days, teams only trained twice a week until Renato Cesarini arrived and turned a shity team into a competitive team only by changing the training regime
Ian Lee
A fraud too, the true Ronaldo is the GOAT
Jonathan Carter
He wasn't a forward, and no one gave a fuck about the libertadores in Brazil until the late 80s. It was known for rigged matches, coked up argies, and violent fans invading the pitch. BRs unironically considered their state tournaments more prestigious.
Camden Smith
>You dont know how good Pele would do if he was born 20 years ago, and you dont know how good Messi would if he was born 80 years ago. But they weren't, so you're really not saying anything here.
Andrew Young
also this. People need to understand the phenomenon went to three WC finals in a row by the age of 25. If his knees weren't made of glass, he would be the undisputed best of all time. Zidane, Zlatan, and Mou agree.
Chase Martinez
>Cutting out the sentencse with the essential message. >Complain that nothing really is beind said
Fucking britbongs.
Jeremiah Morales
Always hated fabricated GOATs from the past in all sports. >pele the greatest huehue Watch vids of him play, literally playing @ 5km/h against walking cones with no agility balance or tackling skills. He was "inventor, had shit gear/ball/fields but still, success wouldn't translate to current year at all. >some random highlight meme like romario Holy fucking shit is Messi his untalented son, literally the best finisher I've seen with godlike composure. How that doesn't compute in customers """heads""" is beyond me. They're doing exact same thing and watch same utube vids.
Samuel Ross
It's not hard to believe, senpai, since in England we had the same attitude. The league was the important thing, the European cups were just an afterthought.
Daniel Gutierrez
nice one
Nathaniel Nguyen
In the early days, Brazil's league was mostly comprised of regional tournaments because the country's infrastructure back then was too shitty to make cross-country travel affordable enough to the clubs. The "Brasileirão" was comprised by the winners of those regional cups and wasn't acknowledged as a national championship by the fans and media.
The situation only changed after the '70 WC title, when the military dictatorship understood that they could use footy as a regime product for the masses and pushed CBF for a more "professional" approach. Only then, clubs started to demand full-time commitment from the players.
Even if football was at a much lower level back then, players like Pele, Maradona and Cruyff still deserve credit for moving the game forwards. If being a good football player back then was so easy, why didn't more players do it? Calling Pele a fraud is like calling Pythagoras a fraud because working out the length of a hypotenuse is something children can do easily these days.
Justin Taylor
Gazza said he played best drunk
Easton Lewis
This is absolutely true. Brazilians only started to care about libertadores in the 90's. Palmeiras, for example, played a Libertadores final with a squad full of bench players.
And you know why? So the starting line up could rest to the PAULISTA FINAL.
