So, Sup Forums, was there ever a time when Muslims were a respectable people? I just watched Kingdom of Heaven and it left me wondering where all those kinds of Muslims went and where did the shit-stained mongoloid Muslims of today come from.
Help me out
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That was liberal propaganda. They were always barbaric warlords.
This movie was before the bullshit attacks started happening in Europe though
middle eastern people became barabarians when the US started bombing innocent opium farmers, stealing iraqi oil,toppling innocent leaders, and generally destabilizing the whole region by funding terrorist groups
Kingdom of Heaven is slanted to be very pro-Muslim, it's not historical
Makes sense
and how so?
>pro muslim
where the protagonist is a christian fighter
neh
I'm no expert, but check out this series:
Yes, before 1000bc
The only pro-Muslim sentiments I got weren't actually pro-Muslim but a respect for Saladin and his command. The man apparently war honourable for his time, him and Richard had a mutual respect for one another, more than anyone two differing factions should.
Muslims invented the slave trade.
Arabs like the Barbary Pirates practiced the slave trade 700 years before white people practiced the slave trade.
Exactly
>Muslims invented the slave trade.
nope, that'd be blacks themselves, africans were the first ones to enslave each other.
and barbary slave trades were only made to catch POWs during ottoman wars
Slavery predates history itself.
Watch real crusades history on youtube. Some serious red pilling.
Saladin wasn't noble or anything at all, that's a myth
you are right actually
we are getting dumber in every century
Uh, no. Ever heard of ever heard of The Baytle of Tours and the dozen battles before it in the West? And the Byzantine-Arab Wars in the East? This is if we are excluding everthing including and past Yarmouk.
i'm already enlightened on the subject
Yet the Lionhearted spoke kindly of the man.
Obviously you can't know for certain how someone behaved when all you have to go on are medieval writings. I've heard and read throughout my life that he was indeed honourable for a Muslim so that's my take on it. I can't prove anything.
During the height of the Islamic Empire, there were extremely benevolent to outsiders and welcomed them in the exchange of scientific knowledge and goods. Then, at some point, fundamentalism took hold and now the former empire is one giant shit show.
>tunisia
>anti-christian
Big surprise there
This movie is full of muslim propaganda, I can't remember all but there's a muslim grabbing a globe stuff in the end, very subtle.
on the contrary, many history sources tell otherwise
unlike richard, saladin was a man of honor
Or should we say
>Muslim
>Anti-Christian
What was the cause of this transformation though?
...
I think you're thinking of when Saladin picks up a cross and puts it back on a table as a sign of respect
True. Look up the Baytle of Hattin, Saladin was viciois as hell. He gave commands to execute Templars on sight and refused to ranson them.
And the Siege of Jerusalem was all bullshit. After it was captured the citizens were "ransomed" for their freedom. Pretty much noone could afford it, so almost everyone was enslaved.
The few that could afford a ransom (the very rich) were kicked out with nothing and most were attacked not far from the city.
Only a very lucky few escaped, and did so by taking a ship to Byzantine controlled Cyprus.
Muslims invasion of Europe has been on going for thousands of years...See the ottoman empire.
...
We could still make Tunisia something that St. Augustine would be proud of
>wikipedia as sources
you ever bother to check the sources wikipedia itself uses? 90% of them are fucking trash, dead links, or literature that is out of print and impossible to find
trying using real historical sources if you have a point to make
I promise Iraq would of been as rich as Dubai if they never got invaded
A lot of factors. Invasions from every directions, philosophical ideals changed (a more literal reading of the Quran), and the fall of rationalism
Personally, I think the Islamic peoples flourish under a strong, secular leadership and falls to shit any time that's disrupted.
>barbary slave trades were only made to catch POWs during ottoman wars
Good one, Tunis. Do they actually teach kids that shit over there?
Pre-Islam Arabic people were reasonable and advanced cultures.
Things only went to hell once Zoroastrianism got the boot and Mohammed took over.
Slavery predates written history. What he was referring to was Arabs/Muslims were the first outsiders to enslave blacks, which isn't true. That would be the Egyptians.
Muslims were the first outsiders to enslave sub-saharan blacks, though.
Those Muslims were the conquerors. They had pride, wealth, and power. Today's Muslims are the conquered. They have despair, poverty, and subjugation.
Arabs were never Zoroastrians.
Implying Greeks, Romans and Germans never enslaved anyone
This was 600 years after Muhammad. Islam has always been about spreading the faith by the sword with unrelenting fundamentalism.
You have to watch out for abrogation of the Quran though, the most recent Suras created are the ones that directly relate to Jihad and the various justifications for it.
Here is your clue.
they kicked the tar out of invading australians in turkey once
So the Ottomans should've controlled those territories or what?
Because you don't belittle a man that has bested or equaled you. You don't say what a weak savage or fool a man is that is your rival. It makes you look like an idiot.
It's that way for every competition. Saying some guy is a shitty athlete and then he beats you implies tou are even shittier by tour own account.
Read up on Saladin the Kurd when he took of the Ayyubid dynasty. The most negative things written aboit him came from his subjects in Egypt.
>They had pride, wealth, and power.
UAE is the biggest importer of Ferraris every year at 1500 units. The first is USA at 2000 models shipped
>Yet the Lionhearted spoke kindly of the man.
Soldiers always inflate the prowess of their enemies.
Look at Erwin Rommel, he was a good commander but the allies inflated his legend far beyond his accomplishments simply because doing so made them look better for beating him.
>comparing warfare to sportsmanship
Wew laddie.
Never. Kingdom of Heaven was made by a jew and is rife with historical inaccuracies and took every chance to portray the Europeans as niggers.
What part of "slavery predates history" did you not understand?
Where did I say those other people never partook in slavery?
You reading comprehension sucks because I was commenting on which foreigners started the African slave trade.
Kingdom of Heaven is pretty abysmal when it comes to historical accuracy. It's more like low fantasy loosely based on history.
Romans where in Africa and they traded Africans
Never. Lived there for almost 4 years. They have an oligarch problem just like everywhere else.... the ability is there but the sandfleas have a genetic predisposition. It prevents them from having self control. Of any kind. Seen young males raping dogs in the streets. It's only gay sex if you're in love. All the lolifags would love it over there too... all desert niggers should die.
>refuting nothing I said
Wew laddy. Competition is competition. You do not bad mouth your equal or someone that beat you.
Kingdom is a shit film, filled with inaccuracies. If you are taking history lessons from a jewllywood film, you need to hand in your Sup Forums card.
>So, Sup Forums, was there ever a time when Muslims were a respectable people?
No
The conquests you listed were merely political and had nothing to do with religion
This
Now you are resorting to name Calling and such? Give an argument or begone.
I do know there are a bunch of historical inaccuracies; I'm just asking about the morality of early Muslims compared to that of today's
There is no evidence that Romans had a slave trade with sub-sahara Africans.
Africa=/=black.
The first evidene of sub-sahara slave trade comes from Muslim Timbuktu.
europeans were the niggers of the world before they got lucky and figured out how gunpowder works.
before that it was a never ending torrent of btfo by the people around them.
hell, they cant even reach china before the muslim does.
[Citation needed]
I'm not trying to refute what you're saying, bud.
In my experience Wikipedia deletes the shady of dead sources and replaced them with [citation needed]
The Middle East except for the small strip of land on the Mediterranean that the Romans controlled has always been barbaric
Ask Julius Caesar even he took one damn look at that place and said "I sure as hell am not going in there"
I don't know if it's genetics or the facts of living in a desert that makes everyone insane but almost EVERYTHING that is screwed up in this world originated in that fucking desert
>left me wondering where all those kinds of Muslims went
They beheaded the whole prisoners after the battle. Where is your kind people?
Also
>falling for the hollywood propaganda
No, muslims have always been bloodthirsty savage idiots. They just used to be somewhat competent at it unlike today.
>citing the absence of something.
Cite me the Romans were involved in sub-saharan slave trading.
The evidence of Timbuktu being an area for slave trade as early as the 10th century is there, just google. That's the reason Timbuktu existed, it was a trading post with sub-sahara Africa for ivory, slaves, and other things.
Wrong, under saddams rule Iraq could've had a high HDI and standard of living since that was the governments #1 priority.
Only 8000 Australians died. 86000 Turks died.
The main cause of Islam transforming into what it is today is Gengis Kahn and the Mongols. They basically rolled over the Islamic world and burned it to the ground. Islam never really recovered from that.
you know what I always find wierd?
Most of the crusades occurred in Israel
aussies were just backup forces for the brits
the turks still win.
dont ever try to attempt pest control again. youre just not very good at it m8
And the UAE isn't a hot spring of terrorism. Places with lots of terrorism are places that are war torn poverty infested shitholes like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria right now. People aren't violent because of stupid religions, they are violent because they don't have opportunity and are poor. Thats why poor nations are more likely to be aggresive look at history even white nations like Germany after they got fucked by world war 1 and were in the shitter went with Hitler and started wars they couldn't win. If you are not poor you are less likely to be violent or commit crimes, because if you do that stuff you have alot to lose. Germany won't start invading poland now because they don't want to lose all the wealth and comfort they created, rich people won't rob banks at gun point because they'd rather not go to prison. If you are poor though, there isn't really much you can lose, but there is a chance you can gain something. So why not attack the wealthy and take what you can to be better off?
Again, wrong, North Africa thrived under Carthaginian and Ronan rule, it also had God tier agriculture.
Pre islamic Middle East thrived in literature especially poetry.
The Arabs also generally had good achievements in medicine, literature, and maths, sociology, and a bunch of other shit
Israel didn't exist at the time
Nah, Islam was always fucked.
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks user
>Wahhabis (Saudis)
So how the fuck did that little "country" in the middle of a fucking desert become Saudi Arabia again?
You need to read some of their earlier stuff. Abu Bakr and Omar (or Umar) were no different.
You have good leaders and bad, but to act like Islam was always peaceful or never warlike before the Mongols is wildely inaccurate.
The Ottomans did control them for centuries, and Islam was developing in a strongly liberal, modern direction.
When the Ottomans fell power in Arabia was split between the Rashids, the Hashemites in the Hejaz, the Wahhabis in Riyadh and a few other minors. The expected outcome was either a Rashidi Arabia or a continuation of that multi-polar status quo.
Instead the 'Anglo-americans' intervened, ran the Hashemites and the Rashids out of power, and effectively handed it all the Sauds, who were the sponsors of the Wahabbis, who are still the official keepers of religion in Saudi Arabia. They've used the Hejaz and the oil money to build their schools and send their preachers throughout the muslim world. They revived concepts like takfir which had been rejected throughout the muslim world for a many centuries, and their doctrines are at the heart of AQO and Daesh.
This. Parts of the middle east were great until islam came and fucked everything up
Hows the Ottoman Empire doing these days roach?
>who has claim? All have claim!
In response to who should own Jerusalem.
Yeah no. The protagonist was basically a fucking atheist.
I'm this close to converting.
Someone give me some good reasons why not.
Because i have trouble finding another path in life at the moment.
The last 2 parts of my posts were talking about after-islam arabia
Invading germany.
btw im not a roach, im a locust. Come have a war with us so we can give you a third day off.
Saddam had gold everything... Baghdad was exactly where I lived. Just outside the main palace and the perfume palace? Slums. Granted it wasn't as bad as the southern tip of the city, like Al Yusufiyah, or Sadr City.. but still. Saddam wasn't doing shit for the people. The sunni minority had the power of the rest. All because of hoarded wealth. Not that it matters. Fuck all of em.
The people in this thread will tell you it's liberal propaganda. That's only half true.
The type of Islam that infects this world is almost completely the product of Saudi Arabia. It is allowed to export its virulent form of Islam because it is an ally. But make no mistake, all Muslim problems we have can be traced back to Saudi Arabia.
Since you come to Sup Forums you probably already know that secular middle eastern regimes (Sadam/Gadaffi) and Shia countries (Assad/Iran) are no where near as bad as our media try to tell us they are (or were anyway). They are hated only because Saudi Arabia hate them.
Fuck Saudi Arabia, seriously.
If it suits you, go right ahead.
Is that a movie by that atheist moron ridley scott who claims to hate religion yet keeps making religious movies?
This, my based North African boy.
Thanks God Americans are literally ending their existence now. Another 50 years and they will be under the extinct species category.
US Jews trading military might for oil. Print more Seymour! money money money.
Go talk to a priest about your problems
fucking sandniggers have always been animals ever since their quran was made.
Before that they were pretty much as animalistic as poo in loos.
>the type of Islam that infects this world is almost completely the product of Saudi Arabia. It is allowed to export its virulent form of Islam because it is an ally. But make no mistake, all Muslim problems we have can be traced back to Saudi Arabia.
>all Muslim problems we have can be traced back to Saudi Arabia.
This, fucking this, than you so fucking much
yeah sure tunfag. anything to get fucked in the ass by another bearded faggot right?
Occasionally they become non observant for a while. Like some of the Balkan ones now.
It doesn't last.
Watch this video and see how "kind" they were. Literally ISIS tier.
Both of you are retarded and should probably consider suicide.