>There were reportedly chaotic scenes at the funeral wake for Manchester music legend Mark E Smith.
>The iconic frontman of The Fall was laid to rest at Blackley Crematorium yesterday, followed by a gathering at the Woodthorpe Hotel in his home town of Prestwich.
>But according to a report by The Mirror the wake was marred by a 'brawl', with bottles being thrown.
>And it added that one former band member of The Fall said Smith 'would have loved' the send-off.
>The Mirror reported guitarist Ben Pritchard as saying: “Just about managed to escape with my life from Mark E Smith’s funeral. The ceremony itself was nice, touching in places.
>“The wake, however, didn’t last half an hour before bottles were thrown and drinks poured over people. Total disrespect, he’d have loved it.”
There were reportedly chaotic scenes at the funeral wake for Manchester music legend Mark E Smith
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>haha How epic just a badass who cares if he beat his gf in 1998
Separate the art from the artist
oh shit. next you'll be telling me lennon beat his wife!
Not me!
Lol "separate the art from the artist" is only really a euphemism for "I care more about my enjoyment than the comfort of victims".
Based
...
This thread is about the artist you tonto ass
Shutup
...
How would me not listening to the Fall comfort the victims?
Don't support abusers in anyway
>Lennon beat his wife kek
>Hey c'mon let's not talk that way about Mark E Smith
Nah fuck off.
The Fall was how she made money you fucking idiot. She was in the band
Throw out all of Caravaggio's work, and literally anyone influenced by him because he was a murderer.
It may sound bizarre to people who need to show their moral worth not through their own daily actions, but through the condemnation of others immoral actions, but doing bad things actually adds some depth to artwork. Are all artists who do bad things good? No. Are all artists who do good things good? No.
Jesse Lacy is a scumbag for what he did, and his band was never any good anyway. Mark is a scumbag for what he did, and that's what makes him so great because his art reflected this chaotic temperament of his and made it palpable. If Mark was a stand up guy his art wouldn't have the same weight or impact.
you can't reason with moral fags user. they're looking for emotional validation. nothing else.
>Caravaggio
who?
I'd seriously argue that Lennon would not have the same cultural relevance if he wasn't simultaneously a shitty person. The fact he was SO far from the values he professed adds to his legacy.
>"I care more about my enjoyment than the comfort of victims".
well, yes.
if it doesn't affect me directly, I don't care lmao
>The fact he was SO far from the values he professed
How so?
>b-but Lennon guys!
Lennon worked his entire life afterwards to try to do good because he felt like shit about what he did to his wife. Mark was an asshole regardless of being arrested.
>you have to be a dickbag to make good music
That's fucking retarded. There's a ton of music that exists that's far better of representing chaotic temperaments made by better human beings. People fall for the "muh tortured crazy artist" hype and pretend it makes shit justifiable when it doesn't at all.
>you have to be a dickbag to make good music
I'll take things no one said for 500 Alex.
Lennon was no where near the Peacey everyone hold hands and sing in unison, "Imagine" singing kind of guy everyone pegged him as. He beat his wife, abused heroin, made fun of the mentally disabled, started fights often, was quite temperamental and not gracious towards fans at all. Thank God, because if he was as good and as much of a savior as he was made out to be his art would have been so bland and one-dimensional, which it is not.
>if Mark is a standup guy his music wouldn't be as good
There's no very specific aspect to his music that you can point to that historically a good human being hasn't done similarly or better.
>who cares if he beat his gf in 1998
this but unironically
>it is not possible to change your ways
Really? Sounds like an inspiration to me.
You clearly didn't read my post. You don't have to be a tortured or awful person to make good music. But being tortured or immoral doesn't bar you from making high quality art. You're right, there is a lot of music that represents chaotic temperaments made by good people. But that doesn't in anyway take away from Mark's legacy.
Comically missing the point, as moralfags are wont to do.
Yes, but making good art doesn't justify being a prick. If people wanna be like "good riddance this asshole is dead!" they can do that, they don't need to be like "oh he made great music lets celebrate him".
Yeah, it's possible. I don't think Lennon really ever did, but that's just my interpretation. You can read his life as a redemption story, and that's fine too. Neither interpretation disqualifies the quality of his art.
>just says that point's being missed without explaining it
You're just here to troll, so here's your goddamn (You)
Once again, no one said they couldn't do that. We're just saying that they're retards for doing so.
Keep being mad brainlet.
That's fine, and you can do that. It's completely reasonable.
But that wasn't the attitude expressed here
or here
>AN ARTIST WAS A DICK?! BURN ALL OF HIS WORK! FORGET HIM! ALL ART MUST CONFORM TO MY NEO-LIBERAL BELIEFS!
>I don't think Lennon really ever did
Can you prove that? All the negative things you listed he did in the late 50s in his youth; he started really preaching world peace in the early 70s.
Sounds like he realized he was a dick, and made a point to fix that and show people they could also fight for something right.
This but unironically.
>hitting your woman is bad
>neo-libralism
Literally what?
>I care more about the artist than the work they create.
>I use music as a fashion accessory to impress pseuds and indie girls.
I can't prove it. I just know he did a lot of heroin in the 70s still, and was still pretty shitty to Yoko in a variety of ways and pretty chauvanistic. Like I said, it's just my interpretation. I don't think he was really going to change. He was always going to be kind of misanthropic, but maybe I'm just projecting.
>We're just saying that they're retards for doing so.
And I am saying you're dumb as shit to not be able to see why others would feel that way. Like not even dumb, literally autistic. Not everybody's a fan of The Fall's music, or maybe the first thing they think of when it comes to Mark is their experiences with him personally. Not everyone's life perspective is similar to yours nor is their taste similar to yours. Take your damn autism pills or get your head out of your ass.
>Keep being mad brainlet.
I am not the one who's incapable of understanding the perspectives of others.
Based on the other response from the other guy, you are trolling, here's another (You.) I lost. You won.
>But that wasn't the attitude expressed here
By who? I think you're getting needlessly trolled by the other guy who started this thread.
>! just know he did a lot of heroin in the 70s still
Do you though? What do you think "Cold Turkey" (released in 1969) is about?
>and was still pretty shitty to Yoko in a variety of ways
Like what? I'd lover to know; he basically stopped writing commercial music to support her creative endeavors, which alienated his own audience. He eventually quit music altogether to be a stay home dad, allowing himself to be domesticated for her.
>but maybe I'm just projecting.
Maybe. because you don't seem to know anything about John Lennon besides what you read on tumblr
Understanding=!=Agreement
Classic brainlet. They think that agreement and understanding are one in the same. I totally understand why people feel strongly about Mark E. Smiths actions, that's not gonna make me think any higher of them when they try and reduce his legacy to "u beat ur wamayn!"
>Based on the other response from the other guy, you are trolling, here's another (You.) I lost. You won.
top kek.
Trying to disregard art because the artist was misogynistic is peak neo-liberalism. Neo-liberals want to burn down everything that contradicts their narrow views.
I never got that into his work post 1972. And even then I'm far less into his solo work than his work with the Bealtes. So you're probably right. I'm not going to front about that. I still think he was probably a shitty person deep down. I have nothing to really base that on, but some people don't change my dude.
>that's not gonna make me think any higher of them when they try and reduce his legacy to "u beat ur wamayn!
The fact that you think it's a thing to make you think lower or higher of them is telling of how far your head's up your ass.
>hey guise! MES' ex is so fucking retarded for thinking he's a piece of shit human being. Doesn't that dumb bitch know that MES made some of my favoritest albums evarrr!!!?
Nigga you Jake/Logan Paul fans tier
>MES' ex is so fucking retarded for thinking he's a piece of shit human being.
Actually, Julia Nagle stayed in the band and with Smith for years following the notorious NYC incident. She left in 2001.
Why would anyone care if he beat his girlfriend in the 90's? What's it matter to you?
>"I care more about my enjoyment than the comfort of victims".
This is supposed to be a problem?
This board is filled with sociopaths who love hurting women lol
>Congratulations! You've shown respect to women, the community thanks you! Your free pussy will arrive in 10-15 days!
>I really am not familiar with him
>but I still think he was probably a shitty person deep down
Are you really just talking about yourself?
I'm not a fan of The Fall. I've never even heard a single one of their albums. Brainlet making more assumptions, I see. I take issue with the common idea that we should try and rewrite history when an artist does something we doesn't like, regardless of whether or not they're important. Nice job on once again not addressing the point and not understanding what I'm saying, ironic considering: >I am not the one who's incapable of understanding the perspectives of others.
Brainlets when will they learn?
I don't do it for the "pussy". I do it because I'm a decent individual. You should too.
women are sociopaths
I do, probably more than you do, considering I treat them like actual people and not delicate little flowers that need to be protected like a child. Don't worry, I'm sure once you grow up a little you'll see it too.
Nah dawg, I'm fine. Great, even.
Thanks for your concern though.
No, I'm not really concerned at all. I honestly believe you might be a sociopath
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>implying she would have a high opinion of him
Dude how does the point that some people just don't care for the art not get through your head? I have been trying to explain this for a bit but you're still acting like a retard.
>implying she would have a high opinion of him
You don't know what the inter-personal dynamics between her and Smith were any better than I do. I just stated a fact.
are you sure you know what neoliberalism is
>"I care more about my enjoyment than the comfort of victims".
uh yes, that's accurate, what's the issue
punk as fuck till the end.
Unlike the soy boys of today
absolutely based
It's not like women cause psychological damage to people on the daily yet they get away with it. Women are all literally wired to be sociopaths. I don't condone beating up women but they aren't really angels to begin with.
It doesn't take long to look up that the two had tension going back to the mid 90s. A quick search shows that the band fought with each other all the time. Like ffs a big part of Mark's reputation comes from this.
i'd respond you but there are other that will do it, cunt
ITT: /r9k/
Everyone knows that Mark E. Smith's relationships with a lot of people(including himself) were tense.
That still doesn't give any real insight into how the band actually operated on a day-to-day level, and it doesn't give any insight into his relationships with the people who were in the band outside of band-related matters. Barely anything is actually known about his private life.
Smith wasn't a clean-cut, one-dimensional character, he was someone you could either take completely or leave completely. You couldn't pick and choose the bits you liked, you got what he gave out and you lived with it.
William S. Burroughs murdered his wife. Oscar Wilde cheated on his wife and fucked underage boys. Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl. Chuck Berry committed armed robbery and used a secret video camera to film women using the toilet. Jimmy Page fucked and kidnapped a 14 year old girl. Hell, most rockstars of the 60s-70s fucked underage girls. I could keep dropping names but I think I've made my point that there are plenty of great/noteworthy artists who were shitty people. Your grandstanding isn't impressive and it doesn't help Mark E. Smith's ex-girlfriend. Fuck off.
based
stop preaching.
the guy hit julia and he went to jail for it. get it?
... and so what? what's the problem? mark is a genius and 50 000 fall fans can´t be wrong about it unlike all those accusing narrow minded drone fuckers
do you have more info about it?
Jimmy Page collab with a satanist and everyone seems to forget about it
youtu.be
to the MAX
>I use music as a fashion accessory to impress pseuds and indie girls.
TOP KEK!
The more important discussion that should be happening in this thread is: why is The Fall's early-to-mid 90s output so underrated?
So many people seem to just ignore all those albums and jump straight ahead from the late 80s to Levitate or TMS. They're missing out...
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Jagger acted in and soundtracked some of Anger's shit as well.
>Mark was an asshole regardless of being arrested.
so what? mark was an asshole but wasn´t sent to prision after that.
>People fall for the "muh tortured crazy artist" hype and pretend it makes shit justifiable when it doesn't at all.
using that shitty reasoning with the fall. he don't need to be a crazy artist
I have never seen so many brainlet wojak pictures in one thread before
>ITT: YOU MUST MUST ACCEPT MY MORAL POINT OF VIEW OR YOU'LL BE WRONG
ITT: a bootyblasted liberal (you) refuses to accept that some people separate the art from the artist
because they are drones
extricate, code selfish and marshall suite are great records.
>why is The Fall's early-to-mid 90s output so underrated?
maybe because those guys aren´t into electronic music like me or mark
check this btw electronicbeats.net
Never read this, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
people defending smith are only saying attackers are MISSING THE POINT.
tromatic reflexxions, one of my top ten records from the 00's along with country on the click and fall heads roll
>DUDE I KNOW A LOT OF STUFF ABOUT FAMOUS PEOPLE
literally everyone knows that. also, I bet you haven't even read Burroughs.
Even his ex-"""gf""" doesn't think you deserve any (You)s:
>eeerrroow, not that again! Mark was a bit mental during that time, as Im sure he'd confirm, he was under a tremendous amount of strain, as was Steve. The incident was distorted, and made out to be about Mark and myself.
>The hotel called the police to have Mark removed, as he'd been acting the goat all night. I was in the room when they arrived, they said did he hit you, I said yes, (I was one of many). They said you should charge him then, I said ok! and voila. He could easily have belted the policeman, they'd then have had a different charge to remove him from the building.
>The district attorney advised that a restraining order was appropriate, and meant as a warning to him, from which I'm sure he learned. It certainly cost enough to sort that problem out, the bail and everything, something which I did alone. With no help from the record company as usual. I had to have over £4,000 wired across from the UK, from my personal account and use an agreed over-draught facility.
>And another fact is that I wasn't his girlfriend, we were colleagues only. (I did date him for a short while in 1996 or was it 1997, I can't remember, for a period of about 8 weeks, I do remember being quite poorly after it though). The song Cyber Insekt, is about that time in New York in 1998. We (our lawyer. Mark and myself) said the whole incident had been incredulous, and we should write a book about it. And being in America, we then laughed about making the 'film of the book, of the film' etc, which in turn became the lyrics, if that makes any sense.
>The group had a big VAT bill, incurred before I joined. They were on the verge of having their houses repossessed, both Mark and Steve. They were quite desperate, and it was sad to witness.
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>I bet you haven't even read Burroughs.
Not that user, but so what?
I bet you don't even know music theory.
I've caved many a bitches face in. And I'm sure I'll do it again. They want equality. I'll give it to them.
have you actually been around women? the temper tantrums, the arguing for the sake of it, creating drama out of nothing, the passive aggression.
Mark was a gentleman, my friend.
>And it added that one former band member of The Fall said Smith 'would have loved' the send-off.
I think this is a proof that God exists. Not necessarily the Abrahamic ones, but still.
>but so what
Sup Forums is full of autists who don't read enough
This isn't /lil/ no one cares
>This isn't /lil/
it actually is
This is a Mark E. Smith thread, and M.E.S. was a well-read guy, so you should fuck off to latest thread about the blandest P4K flavor of the month, you fucking wanker.