What is it that separates a good rapper from a bad one?
I don't wanna be "that guy" that says "rap is just a guy talking", but... well it does kinda sound like that.
Example: youtube.com
If you take away all the beats/sfx/etc. it's pretty much just Biggie talking. Does it mostly just come down to having a unique sounding voice or what?
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a great rapper has charisma, personality, passion...basically all things a good singer needs. except where a singer needs range and the like, rap requires flow, cadence, and good lyrics (though that last one isn't exclusive to the rapper himself, of course)
while it does sound like Biggie is 'just talking', it's actually pretty hard to imitate what he's doing if you don't have the same level of charisma/flow/etc. just look up any cringy rap battle or something
there's also melody just because the notes are staccato doesnt mean cant have a melody or harmony like odb
>What is it that separates a good rapper from a bad one?
Bad rappers can easily be identified by their megalomanical, narcissistic lyrics.
Well rapping is literally like speaking poetry or something like that so of course he's "just talking".
But user said it well overall
How they employ ...
Word play/general literary techniques/flow/diction/melody/content
Just like a poem really
certified street nigga spitting facts = good
anything else = bad
i dont think rap lyricism is a fair comparison to poetry. Not to take anything for rap or to say it's not worthy of the comparison but i think it's completely different thing. I think tupac was more focused on making a dope song than focusing entirely on the artistry of words on the written page on some t.s eliot shit
Freestyling is more about having a bunch of material you can pull out of your head than actually being able to freestyle. But there are people who are legitimately good at it. Freestyling is definitely impressive, not so much studio rap. You could pull anybody off the street and produce a radio rap hit.
exactly, which is why we have the state of rap nowadays where the producer takes the helm and the rapper is little more than a figurehead.
it's not poetry in the same sense of saying something profound (though rappers can and have done that) but it's more in the sense of using poetic techniques to create a strong image. and even for 'tupac just wanted to make a dope song' remember that early rap had a lot of roots in urban parties where DJ's would take percussion from soul and funk. naturally some part of the culture would have to revolve around being entertainment music, even if some rappers like, say, KRS One would focus more on the overall state of minorities and the like.
even krs one had to work within the boundaries of the song structure but poetry had refused structure outright long ago. not even in the saying something profound but this is e.e cummings a leaf falling
l(a
le
af
fa
ll
s)
one
l
iness
it's lyricism not poetry
fair enough. still, visual presentation and structuring is just one part of poetry. rap is more focused on prosody and diction.
poetry is a written art form like a play or a novel. Hip hop is a musical genre. Poetry evolved through years from the initial homeric epics and became something like a painting with words on the written page. Poetry uses only the written page but rappers rap their verse to a beat and due to that handicap if you take the most lyrical rap song write it down and compare it with some virgil it would seem childish and even incomparable. That's like saying anyone who writes lyrics to a song is a poet might as well as far as saying anyone who rhymes words unintentionally is a poet. Basically, if you write down verses and send it in to the new yorker for it to function by itself you're a poet if you make a song out of said verses you're a musician
what do you mean fair enough its objective fact its a difference between platforms of artistic expression
like kanye?
don't know why you quoted the other dude but the 'fair enough' was because rap obviously can't incorporate verbal structure to create some level of meaning. what rappers can do is exceed in prosody, diction, etc.
yes, there's a clear difference between leaf falling and basically all rap but it's still poetry at the end of the day, or at least some form of it
It’s about being a poet you fucking dumbass
exactly, kanyes a good celebrity, not a good rapper
ok this is my last time trying to explain to this
poetry is a written art form like prose and plays on paper that you read
hip hop is music that you listen to that has verse
country has verse but we dont call taylor swift a poet
a poet is something sacred the bible is divine poetry dantes inferno is divine poetry
hip hop lyricism is not poetry because you dont sing
spoken word is not poetry its a musical genre
poetry is a label put on written works
you have a connotation with the word poet as if it is better than rapper but its the same thing thats just your conditioning coming into play as there are shitty poets and great rappers
i quoted myself
Poetry has nothing to do with writing. Unwritten, oral poetry has a much longer history than literacy. The rest of your post is just complete nonsense.
why are you getting so worked up over this? besides, you've made numerous mistakes
>hip hop is music you listen to
correct. but rap, what we've been talking about, quite literally stands for 'rhythm-and-poetry', friend. and rappers, who we're also talking about, use poetic form to create a strong image.
>country
is not relevant to this discussion. country is more related to folk, in any case.
>poet is something sacred
ok
>spoken word
is also irrelevant. and in any case, you're incorrect - spoken word quite literally began as straight up poetry readings before developing into a more musical thing in the fucking 60s. spoken word has been around since quite literally ancient times, my friend.
>poetry is a label you put on written works
correct, and no one here, including the person you originally quoted, has said that rap is poetry. they use poetic techniques.
>you have a connotation with the word poet as if it is better than rapper but its the same thing thats just your conditioning coming into play
lmao what, where is this coming from
>Unwritten, oral poetry has a much longer history than literacy
citation needed. i thought that was story telling. written work is much more than telling a story
>why are you getting so worked up over this?
i'm a writer and you dont respect me
>rap
is hip hop with the forefront on the lyricism. dylan isn't rap. folk also has a forefront on lyricism
>country
yes it is because we're discussing lyricism in music it makes no sense different genres get different titles for doing what essentially is the same thing which is crafting song lyrics
>spoken word
i tried to appeal to your ego by adding regardless of complexity it is essentially the same thing but to no avail i gather. the fact that you read poetry out loud in spoken word and record it makes it music which is the concept of spoken word
>poetic techniques
no you said you're a poet
>where is this coming from
you refusal to accept such a trivial categorization because you want to inflate your ego
>i'm a writer and you dont respect me
You're a shit writer and there is nothing to respect.
and for once, i thought i'd get a reasonable discussion on this board centered around hip hop
lay off the coke before you come here, friend
>implying most rappers write anything they rap about
>still a writer and you're disregarding the whole artform saying you're its equivalent
i'm not your friend
i'm painting sunsets and pullovers of places i've never been before
if you want to write something poetic hang yourself from a walmart sign
that doesnt mean anything
GAY FISH YO
it's poetry and you're now disrespecting me.
you've said nothing whatsoever in a pretty way
let me make it easier for you
i'm talking out of my ass and out of my element
if you're a writer you're better off pursuing death
elementary school nonsense
pretty words to use up the time
why speak if you have nothing on your mind
deceit is a useless trick gainst the blind
dont resent one for the inability to see
the universe is a mirror in a bubble
and trickery is a web spun round its caster
this is today's balance;
remains, residue
me in dreg shoes stomping over someone's uneven belief ceiling
maffing myself up, starring in a galaxy
acting in a pulling and running reality puddle
the hunchbacked wind trying to stand upright
in a small room of an err in the air
a disposition's trap door
wearing itself muddled
our choking and beautiful unfulfilled capacity
why do rap haters not understand how complicated flow can get
some of these dudes have a Really good understanding of rhythm which is what makes this good for me or not.
youtube.com
like his lyricism is pretty good, but what i like about this is the second verse where he picks up and starts flowing better.
and of all man's follies, of pity's allure
self preservation through idolization
expensive conture painted with pyramids
and stars which shed their light soley for you
i'm but a lowly roach in a rain drain
who's sundays consist of cold superior gazes
noxious gasses and crumbling skyscrapers
fall upon mine as if it were preached in church
in their everlasting superiority of worryless dreams
to detach the string which stems from the mind
whichever way the wind blows drifts entitilessly
into what is not our place to know or question
not bad but not quite on my level