Why are Mexicans proud of their indigenous roots to the point of making it their national identify yet they...

Why are Mexicans proud of their indigenous roots to the point of making it their national identify yet they discriminate and turn their noses up towards actual Amerindians?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenismo
youtube.com/watch?v=6DFhAKFKqMI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelaguetza
reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-central-america-idUSKBN1800E4
youtube.com/watch?v=QzCCQZFDkJk
twitter.com/AnonBabble

racial insecurity. most latam cunts have it

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenismo

The past is romanticized, but no one cares about the present amerindians

Because we just wanted to be special snowflakes.

I personally like certain parts of all our influences equally and don't discriminate anyone desu

What certain parts?

Some things

It's cultural appropriation

Because our national identity is our ideals, same as with everyone else it isn't always our reality. I mean we don't claim to be something we are not, we really are a mixed people as a nation, and things are getting better even if it's at a snail pace, the educated middle class would today consider it unacceptable to use indio as an insult whereas it would've been common just a couple of decades ago.

because amerindians now are poor, and no one wants to be poor

hierarchy user.

Off topic but our Vancouver Olympics had a big native presence to it like a person with no idea what Canada is like would think they (Aboriginals, Metis, and Inuit) are 10, 20 hell 30%+! part of the national population that Canada has an equal, open, and strong relationship with.

Mexico has a "EVERYONE IS MESTIZO" thing going on.

What ideals?

I'm middle class and I've heard indio as an insult countless of times. It's also always used on the internet.

That both the European and Amerindian components of our identity are equally valued and cherished

Man, I don't know of you're a cumbres type of new rich or if you live in some backwater, but "la gente nice" in Mexico City would call you out as a racist and a pinche naco and make a social pariah out of you if you were using indio in any derogatory way. And rightly so I'll add. Obviously there's different cliques in the city but at best you'll be considered bridge and tunnel people and told to go back to Coapa or Satelite if not, even worse, Santa Fe.

What kind of rock are you living under, people caught doing classist rants are shamed and going viral all the time, racism is even worse.

>That both the European and Amerindian components of our identity are equally valued and cherished

I don't think it ever was a thing

What is a component? Your culture only values European languages, aesthetics, and ideologies.

People tell me otherwise all the time on Sup Forums.
People always tell me conflicting ideas depending on what's convenient for the thread

>why do mexicans think they are aztecs? they have nothing to do with aztecs lmao
>mexicans are violent because they are aztecs!
>why do mexicans think they are spaniards? they have nothing to do with spaniards lmao
>mexicans are lazy because they are spanish!
>tenochtitlan? pfff, not mexican
>new spain? pff not mexican
>chichen itza? pff not mexican
>that food is mesoamerican, not mexican
>that food is spanish, not mexican
>why do mexicans act and look like amerindians but think they are white?
>why do mexicans think they are amerindians while speaking european languages?
>mexicans this
>mexicans that

According to Sup Forums, Mexicans either don't exist, or we are nothing and everything, acting like complete oposites at the same time. Really, pick up a narrative and stick with it.

This is why i don't take anyone on Sup Forums seriously. They're just plain retarded.

R A Z A

C O S M I C A

>why do mexicans steal our jobs?
>why are mexicans so lazy?
>why do mexicans hate themselves so much?
>why are mexicans so nationalistic?
Etc., etc.

I don't take them seriously either, but when the ideas that they tell me are such complete polar oposites I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous it can get.

Why is most of the architecture Spanish?
Why is most of the population Spanish-speaking?
Why are there few indigenous people in the media and when they're present, why are they mostly given negative qualities?
Why are the wealthiest and most politically powerful so white?
Why do so many indigenous people suffer from poverty, malnutrition, and stunting?
Why do Mexicans try to erase their indigeneity by saying everyone is mestizo?
Why do so many Mexicans care about labeling everyone as a mestizo if they claim to be a decolonized people? Mestizo is an identity that was forced upon Mexicans.

Why do Mexicans say they love indigenous people but not want them to be independent?
Why do they fetishize the prehispanic cultures but treat the existing cultures as trash?
Why do they make it easier for Europeans to migrate to Mexico but treat Central Americans like beasts?
When will Mexicans stop supporting policies that extract the resources from indigenous lands and send the wealth to white Mexicans?

Why did Mexicans look down on Oaxacans' cuisine and culture until white Americans and white Brits started becoming interested in it?

Why was indigenous alcohol production seen as a thing inly trashy people do until white hipsterd started making it?

Why are white people less racist and more appreciative of indigenous cultures more than Mexicans?

This is the kind of things New Age Liberal Retro hippies in Mexico ask themselves everyday. You should apply to become one of them

Why is it that when people choose to learn indigenous languages Mexicans look at them like they're crazy?

Why do Mexicans rape indigenous migrant women?

Why do Mexicans have closed minds? Why do they not have a self-critical culture?

>Why is most of the architecture Spanish?
>Why is most of the population Spanish-speaking?
If you don't know the answers to these questions. then I don't know what to say.
>Why are there few indigenous people in the media and when they're present, why are they mostly given negative qualities?
I don't, why are there so few poor people in the media in general? Do you want to know why indigenous people are poor also? There are explanations for that too.
>Why are the wealthiest and most politically powerful so white?
This is wrong, the richest man in this country is Lebanese, and not the white looking ones. While there are plenty of mestizos (possibly the majority), holding important political positions. While Mexico had not only the first Amerindian president in the entire planet (Benito Juarez), but it also had possibly the first mulatto president as well (Vicente Guerrero), while other of the most prominent heroes in our entire history (Morelos) was an indigenous and black mix himself. And don't forget the time when Porfirio Diaz (a heavily native american side mestizo) hold the total control of this country for more than 30 years. With another revolutionary hero (Emiliano Zapata) was also really native as well.
>Why do so many indigenous people suffer from poverty, malnutrition, and stunting?
Mexico is a country with up 60% poverty, depending on what statistics you use; a country that has been poor for most of it's history and where a caste system once ruled for over 300 years. Make the math.
>Why do Mexicans try to erase their indigeneity by saying everyone is mestizo?
This was done on the premise of creating a national identity back when the country was tearing itself apart in civil wars because nobody thought they had anything in common with each other. Not to erase our indigenous part, which is highly exacerbated in here, more so than almost any other country in the entire Americas.
>last
No it isn't, and most people just call themselves "Mexican".

Easy there with all the questions, bud. Some of them are really stupid and require large answers.

Not all Mexicans my friend only the hardskulled normative working classes. There's lots of people with your opinions who hang around with natives, live in vans, enjoy prehispanic culture and are aware that whites are the salvation of Mexican culture. Do you like playing guitar or charana btw?

Why do Mexicans hide their racism behind their classism?

Why do Mexicans not see the connection between racism and classism?

People say that Americans don't care about inequality because they see themselves as temporarily embarassed millionaires...

Well, in Mexico, people don't care about inequality because they see themselves as temporarily embarassed Spaniards.

I have never used indio in my life, but nice projection. Btw to all foreigners reading, it's very obvious that this faggot wants to portray Mexico as some paradise of racial equity but it really isn't but what can you expect from some criollo faggot from Mexico City? All they do is spread lies.

>Why did Mexicans look down on Oaxacans' cuisine and culture
Mexicans have been proud of that part for a long time.

Video is one of the most celebrated Mexican compositions ever created, and it also happens to be considere THE Oaxaca hym.
youtube.com/watch?v=6DFhAKFKqMI

Not to mention this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelaguetza
One of the most celebrated traditions of this place.

And for much longer than when the average hippie cunt from Europe or you country ever gave a dam to even consider indigenous people equal human beings.

>Why do Mexicans rape indigenous migrant women?
Because they are the most vulnerable group out there for several reasons, vulnerable people often are the main victims. Everywhere.

>Why do Mexicans have closed minds? Why do they not have a self-critical culture?
If your idea of being "self-critical" is acting like a naive liberal arts student whose entire explanation for every problem in the panet is cry "RACIST", then we have plenty of people like that.

Is that Varg

Treasure trove of information user, thank you very much. Lots of truth in your words. Cant wait to move to Mexico and experience this country. It has so much to offer.

Im a Handsome white dude moving to Guadalajara, i hope my Whiteness does not bite me in the ass.

>deflection

Again, treasure trove of info.

you're neither aztec nor spaniard, you're mestizo. The only ones making a big fuss and creating discussions over this subject are mexican

Most of what he said is bullshit and the equivalent of saying that by electing Obama America became free of racism.

Why are Mexicans so criticized when every country in the world suffers from the same problems?

>Why do Mexicans say they love indigenous people but not want them to be independent?
Independent from what? And the Zapatista Army of National Liberation gained just that, independent status for their communities decades ago.
>Why do they fetishize the prehispanic cultures but treat the existing cultures as trash?
No
>Why do they make it easier for Europeans to migrate to Mexico but treat Central Americans like beasts?
1. First, it is pretty hard for people from the entire planet to migrate here, hence, why we have so few immigrants from everywhere in the first place. And it has been like that for a long time. Why do you think every other country in Latin America has a fuck ton of more Italians, Irish, British, German, etc?, and second, your government and mine currently have treaties that ask us to deport Central Americas for you, as they are headed to your country, not here.

You might want to read a little bit more about your own foreign policy, bud.

reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-central-america-idUSKBN1800E4

>When will Mexicans stop supporting policies that extract the resources from indigenous lands and send the wealth to white Mexicans?

>most mexicans support the government on anything and the government actually listens when we complain

Ah yes.

but you mexicans are just as poor

>Why do Mexicans hide their racism behind their classism?

I'll give you this one, this actually happens. But even so, you are making it look like Mexican racism is much worse than what it really is.

>Why do Mexicans not see the connection between racism and classism?
I would need to explain to you our entire fucking history for this. There are a couple of pastas that sum it up out there, let me find them for later.

Anything else?

Why are Mexicans so anti-Chinese?

You can criticize China for many things but at least they committed to creating a high quality of life for their people. Sure, you can argue that wealth isn't everything, but countries that are wealthy tend to have populations that are healthy, educated, and happy.

Do Mexicans honestly believe a highly corrupt, violent, self-hating, white-worshipping culture is going to produce a healthy people? An educated people? A happy people?

The chances of Mexico collapsing are much, much higher than Mexico entering the 22nd century as a developed country.

Not what I said. Mexico suffers from racism, yes. But this guy knows nothing about this place.

Up until very recently, people here claimed religion, language and history were our identity. It's strange, really. Because people here avoided at all cost the references to Cortés and the like, but at the same time we had La Guadalupana as a second non-oficial flag. Now is different.

Lol, anti-Chineses? I mean i agree that Mexico has a chance of collapsing into chaos in the future, but don't we all?

che 157 centimetros

The Mestizo thing is true, just look at demographics. The amerindian people is a minority in the country as a whole.

>more appreciative of indigenous cultures
That's just the coolness of exotism.

We are not anti-chinese.

Then why did your people kill 3000 Chinese immigrants in Torreon?

When Mexico became independent, it was decimated by a 10 year long war. That war left Mexico being poor so the pre-existing peace treaty with the nomadic tribes from the North was broken, as they depended on the things the government of New Spain gave them in exchange of not hunting down and raiding settlements there. At the same time, we faced and fought multiple rebellions (Republic of Texas, Republic of the Rio Grande, Republic of Yucatán, Republic of Lower California (U.S. Filibusters), Republic of Sonora (U.S. Filibusters), Republic of Zacatecas, Republic of Jalisco, Separatists in Tabasco, etc.) while being invaded by Spain from the nearby Island of Cuba, and an occupied fort within Mexico, since they wanted to regain control of the colonies starting with us. In the middle of all the shitfest, France took advantage of some damaged French bakeries due to the war, so they made ridiculous petitions (demanding us to pay up to 600 times more than the total costs of the damages done, money Mexico didn't have), and took the opportunity to blockade our ports and invade with the help of the U.S. Later on, the UK was plotting to expand to California and invade from Oregon, but was stopped short when the US invaded instead.
Meanwhile, the government in Mexico couldn't decide whether to be an empire, a republic, conservative, liberal, go back to Spain or become a French colony (there were people in favour and against all of that), so civil war within the factions wanting to take control of the government also broke out. This led to several military dictatorships led by generals who took advantage of the situation to raise to power and fucked us even more.

Moreover, at the time, Mexico/New Spain (with pretty much the same demographics as present day Mexico) was still struggling the effects of the caste system. Since the times of the colony, only Spain born Spaniards had access to education and governing powers, so the majority of the population, mestizos, Amerindians and American-born Spaniards, were malnourished, illiterate, poor, and worked almost like slaves in mines and haciendas owned by the rich. Especially Amerindians and mestizos.
This very same uneducated people would move out to vote time and time again for the shittiest presidents you could ever imagine, so dictatorships, repression, poverty, corruption, perpetuated even further in a vicious cycle.
And every time a true Mexican hero would rise to try an improve things, he would be deposed by other generals/politicians who wanted power all to themselves and heir friends.

We would later be invaded by France again, in the name of Frenchaboo Mexicans who wanted to be part of France, and war broke down again. France fucked off in the end, but a dictator took office for the next 30 years until another war, the revolution, broke out against him. In the shitfest, after the revolutionaries won, and fair elections were held, another wannabe dictator staged a coup with the help of the US ambassador, and the revolution war restarted. After a series of betrayals, the war prolonged for 10 years, 10% of the Mexican population died, war against the church started again, a period of stability finally came, and then the government became a nepotist state keeping the population uneducated and poor in order to steal everything for themselves, sold out to neoliberalism, drug war came, and here we are.

And don't even get me started on the times where New Spain lost 80% and 50% of its total population consecutively, thanks to two different epidemics respectively.

>Vicente Guerrero

Not a mulatto also only very recently in 2015 could a person even really tell in census of their Afro-ancestry.

What? More than 100 years ago?
The US has done far worse and for much longer.

Why don't Mexicans just let indigenous people have their own country?

They clearly hate indigenous people. I hardly see any rich indigenous people, they are hardly represented in the government, and they are, as I said, insulted in the media.

Why do you hold them hostage? Why do you demand they throw their languages in the trash for Spanish? Why do you want them to work in factories to produce wealth for rich, white Mexicans and rich multinational corporations?

It's clear you guys hate them.... so just let them be free. It's as if you think you're entitled to ruling over them for some reason.

In Mexican culture, indio is synonymous with stupid, ugly, backwards, etc.

Let them be stupid
Let them be ugly
Let them be backwards

Let them exist in their own indigenous country
Represented by their own indigenous people
Watching media produced by their indigenous people for their indigenous people
Thanks to the wealth created by indigenous labor used with indigenous resources from indigenous land.

Stop colonizing.

Go be Mestizo elsewhere and leave indigenous people alone.

>Why don't Mexicans just let indigenous people have their own country?

For what fucking purpose and how many different nations would we need in order to do that?

If all you are going to do is throw away some stupid questions out of your ass, then we are done.

>The Mestizo thing is true, just look at demographics.

Kinda yes kinda no.

Shut the fuck up. If you are so preoccupied with indigenous people let them return to Aztlan and give them their w

You are not indigenous. You are mestizo trash. It is not up to you to decide.

Go to Europe and stop colonizing. This land isn't for you.

their own country*
lel

CHI CHI CHI

I don't know what he expects. Things are changing but it's taking time.

kek, tell me more about my own life, I'd like to laugh a little bit more for sure.

kek fucking Mexicunts
Keep LARPing boy how you're an Eagle Warrior KEK

Vicente Guerrero was afro-mexican, yes. And he obviously wasn't full black, as he wasn't a slave during the colony period and the rules of the caste system.

Dont you guys have autonomous zones or something so they can keep their own lawzones?
Is as much as they can hope to get with their scarce numbers.

Oh look, a Mexican that had to run off to a more prosperous country because a highly corrupt, violent, self-hating, white-worshiping culture could not produce a high quality of life...

Shocking....

>Dont you guys have autonomous zones
Yup, we do. And unlike American reservations (that were forced upon their natives) people are allowed to move; and the reason they were created is because they asked for them in the first place.

They are allowed to take drugs for their rituals, marry really young, etc. As to preserve their costumes.

so this is the dude making the /chi/ threads

I mean, customs, kek.

Nice try disqualifying me, I'm not portraying Mexico as any sort of paradise, I very clearly characterized attitudes amongst urban middle class, not the whole country. And what's with the chilango hate dumb fuck? Nice way to make your point.

Well, we do try to make it a thing, that's the reason for all the wewuzism,

I wouldn't refute we are basically a Latin/Mediterranean culture with some Amerindian varnish but actual Native Americans do still exist and we do still try to recover traditions. A good example is pictured, it seems like something that's always been there to most Mexicans today but this food was actually lost as the Spaniards prohibited its use (it was associated with the Aztec cult of Huitzilopochtli) Indigenistas rescued it in the 1960's from wild varieties and now it's something familiar and taken for granted by most of us.

Most Mexicans today will read Popol Vuh in school, it wasn't available some decades ago, The Broken Spears (an account of Mexico's conquest using Aztec sources) is also growing popular. So while we are not going to ever come to the point of returning to the old religion or changing our language we can recover an important part of our identity. Most Mexicans do descend from Amerindians and it should be a source of pride. The Amerindian peoples of Mexico are worthy ancestors.

>white worshipping

first off this doesn't exist and second of all if there's an appreciation for their western heritage in latin america there's nothing wrong with that. better than the actual west, masochistic and suicidal.

why can't latin americans just be happy with mixed amerindian+western roots? I think those guys have a lot more going for them than they can see right now.

Forgot to add the picture

SHUT UP CHONG

Why do mestizos like you always try to paint themselves as the victims? Oh woe is me, why are mean indians not hating themselves and not letting us roleplay as Europeans!? We are so persecuted! Waaaah!

Go to Europe if you want to be European. You're not indigenous.

Another famous Mexican composition from Oaxaca. This one is famous internationally.

youtube.com/watch?v=QzCCQZFDkJk

"metizos, "white worshipping culture" I'm 100% sure your one of blm people trying to get mexicans to join your war against the evil white man.

>I wouldn't refute we are basically a Latin/Mediterranean culture with some Amerindian varnish

this is what I like about latin america. If I said "the usa is an anglo country" I would simply be incorrect. for 3 centuries it's had tons of immigration and its founding principles are materialist and liberal. it cemented its fate from the start as the epitome of multiculturalism and "out with the old in with the new", it's lost any genuine straight cultural connection to europe it had.

you all on the other hand still have legitimate cultural roots in both europe and natively. people shit on spain's mode of colonization but ultimately I think it will prove to be the best. US and canada are *too* western and they've been victims of postmodern political thought and the result is the US as the #1 world power enforcing enlightenment philosophy on the world.

in latin america because of native roots you have ethnic cohesion. we don't have that.


I am white with green eyes and pink nipples and have no connection to latin america

There goes the mestizo being a mestizo again.

How dare indians not want to be ruled by themselves? How dare they not live their lives on their knees like us mestizos? How dare they continue to resist? How dare they not internalize colonialism?

Those are the kinds of questions that occupy the mestizo mind.

Oh wow a white person is defending a culture that tells indigenous people to shut up and not resist. Crazy. What does a white person have to lose from independent indigenous nations?

By all means, show me a Spanish cathedral that looks like this.

what do you have to gain? who are you anyway? why do you deny the fact that latin american cultures are overwhelmingly spanish-speaking catholics? how do you not see the massive amount of cultural influence europe has had on them? why do you talk about mestizos like they're some kind of tiny minority of latin america and not the absolute majority?

>internalize colonialism
you fucking jew communists speak of this word "colonialism" like it's some sort of magic spell that only the evil whitey can conjure

ok you all but confirmed my question. Mods please sage this thread

Man, stop making it about race, I'm white and accept Amerindian culture as my own and fucking "appropiation" doesn't apply, we Mexicans all share a single culture regardless of our family's particular history. A fully Amerindian Mexican will read and appreciate medieval Spanish literature because it does belong to him, it is his spiritual ancestors much the same as his are mine.

The model of culture as something exclusive to certain ethnicities doesn't work when discussing Mexico, it's only a thing north of the border.

this right here. i got mexicans of all colours in my family and they don't say shit about cultural appropriation bullshit.

And you confirmed my suspicion that mestizos are detrimental to indigenous people.

Why do you want to force indigenous people to be abused by mestizos? Why don't you let the people you hate be free? And why didn't you answer the question. Why is an independent indigenous nation so detrimental to a white person?

Stop trying to erase indigenous people and I'll stop making it about race. Indigenous people are not Spanish. Spanish literature is not indigenous. If actual Spaniards were awake and read this thread they would be laughing at you.

And I never said a culture is exclusive to certain ethnicities. The problem is mestizos and whites like you that continue to demand indgenous people hispanicize themselves and kill themselves so they can roleplay as Spaniards and fancy themselves as Europeans.
You say you accept Amerindian cultures, then leave them the fuck alone. Stop colonizing.

Cool. Go be some woo-woo mestizo-speaking-Spanish-and-pretending-to-be-an-Aztec elsewhere. Leave indigenous people alone.

I want you to draw, on a map, your proposed new independent indigenous nations.

I want you to go back to Europe where you can be as European as you want.

you're talking a bunch of bullshit.

what do you think of albanians and bosnians? should they convert en masse to christianity because that's what their ancestors were? do you not understand the concept of cultural interaction leading to new cultures?

Most Mexicans are more closely related to the Conquistadors than to the Native Americans.

>Why are Mexicans proud of their indigenous roots to the point of making it their national identify
We are not proud of beigin nothing. Those mesoamerican things just were in the past. The "muh heritage" is a shitty invent and goverment propaganda to make Mexico different to Spain. We like Spain and the shit but you know?
Nobody cares a shit about the past even heritage thats the true.
People discriminate indians but thats cause their states are so shit and just they going to USA ILEGALLY.

Poor farmers shit are lazy drunk people, mostly of the are from indian roots and from the poores states. They invade YOUR country you KNOW???

And actually are destroying our,but i reply you nobody cares is an indian is a good or bad person,just be normal.

Do you not understand resistance from a people not wanting to be at the bottom of society anymore?

Stop.
Making.
Too.
Godanm.
Questions.
AHhh shit bro you irritate me, fuck off.

>Stop trying to erase indigenous people
Seriously La Raza chicano, I went to college with indigenous people aka they were just regular guys to me, and what Spanish literature is not indigenous? Rulfo? Paz? I'm not demanding shit from anyone, I fully support, as a citizen and taxpayer, the government provide services to indigenous peoples in their own languages and their full rights as established in article 2 of the Mexican constitution where they established their limitations themselves eg as in full equality for women.

That doesn't mean mainstream Mexican culture should renounce either it's Latin roots or its Amerindian ones which is what we are discussing, the culture of the overwhelming majority of Mexicans regardless of their ethnic origin. You can choose not to learn Spanish and not be a part of that, indigenous do have self determination, but then what you do is not my problem, now is it? Because it's not really self determination if you depend on me.

What would you like? Because regardless of what Spanish posters on /int may think I wouldn't have no problem moving to Spain and getting citizenship, should I leave my own nation?

No man, the chickenshit who abandoned his own people to live on a land he's not wanted is you, not me. Don't fucking pretend you can lecture real Mexicans about our own country.

insignificant minority. there have been plenty of instances of this sort of thing in history, and plenty long before western civilization even existed too

Well friend you have a lot of information,is good man. But is too shit,a tip go out make some friends or whatever too much computer for you.

You are white, you are not indigenous and you never will be indigenous. Most importantly, your continued colonization will always be met with resistance.

because whites are masochistic. latin america has a good amount of whiteness, but not too much that they become cucks

how indigenous are you