What are the pros and cons of national socialism?

What are the pros and cons of national socialism?

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pros - whites get killed

cons - they become muslim countries afterwards

>pros - whites get killed
That's not how that works fake straya

um, yeah, the last time they tried it 50 million whites died

pros:
good for war

cons:
bad for peace

pros: no jewish influence

cons: remainder of the jewish influenced world wants to kill you

>baiting us into thinking it wasn't purely a jewish war on a rival economic system where they couldn't profit

kek

blah blah blah joooos, 50 million whites died.

Well, I hope the jooos kill a lot more of you than 50 million if you try it again.

Pros: Better than communism

Cons: Literally just basicbitch socialism+LARPing

0/10

Here's your (You)

Nazism is modern liberalism. Look up their social programs and government/business structure. The only pro is military might. I'd choose 2016 SJW America over Hitler's Germany any day of the week. At least here we still have a chance of passing conservative legislation.

Pros - nationalism

Cons - socialsim

>detecting a shitskin / self-hating white in fake straya

I bet you think the only reason Europe's rich is because we "stole it all from Africa".

just mad cos natsoc is gay and you can never beat the joooooooos

I sincerely hope you stay mad. Heres your (((you)))

no its because you based your culture on the Jewish Bible of course. No one is as successful as the Jews, and it burns your ass

/thread

Socialism without nationalism is fucking retarded, but nationalism without socialism is slightly less retarded.

Democratic libertarianism is best ism.

Pros: nationalism
Cons: socialism

Pros: no kikes

Cons: no freedom

So what's so bad about us decoupling from the jewish lore and finding our own path?

That's what Hitler was ultimately doing.

the good thing about it is that it wipes out whites, and the bad thing about it is that it turns formerly white countries into islamic stans. I think I've said this already.

Freedom rip

Don't post people from my country you disgusting diaspora filth

Seriously?

white people are either disgusting liberals or disgusting national socialists. Its about time we fired up the ovens, achi

>the good thing about it is that it wipes out whites

And as I said earlier, either you're a self-hating white or a non-white.

Besides, if getting rid of whites is your goal, what is bad about white countries turning into mudslime shitholes?

Nah fuck off cunt, don't call me brother if you aren't posting with an Israeli flag
White people are the reason we're here, the reason we have a country, and they created the culture that inspired ours , here in Israel. The fact that some krauts tried to kill their jews is not a reason to whine and bitch forever.

if theres one thing worse than white cuckhole countries, its islamic countries. This place is only tolerable because the local Maori refuse to be cucked liberals and import muslims en masse. Theres only 1% muslims here.

> Ashkenaz plate licker detected

Pros: Consolidation of power, unity of society if done "right", less dissent between members of society if done "right", unwavering support for the collective majority and of the system in place. Potentially can result in purely goal-driven societies that achieve things without trifle or strife if done "right".

Cons: It can never be done "right", because most people are stupid and do stupid things, especially when given near-total power over all affairs.

It breeds unquestioning, unwavering bastions of ignorance that act as resource sinks, and stratifies the useful/intelligent/capable members of society.

It often lapses on it's "us versus them" sentiment, and usually ends up with infighting of the greatest degree.

The variable ways you can instil National Socialism means that, regardless of whether you worship a religion or worship the state, you cannot easily introduce concepts or ideologies that would greatly benefit the society as a whole without modifying it such that it can be digested by the majority, alongside the existing ethical fibers (that may line up with encouraged moral compasses); you must commit some very stupid, very unfortunate historical revisionism in order to keep things running smoothly, or risk insurgency/cognitive dissonance and subsequent power struggles.

Most outsiders will also chide this system, especially because if it is done wrong or done by example, it will be likened to past mistakes (rightfully so).

Pros- Nationalism
Cons- Socialism

>The fact that some krauts tried to kill their jews is not a reason to whine and bitch forever.
Why can't more jews be like this? Seriously it would go a long way instead of just screaming racist like a child.

>Diaspora parasite detected
You live in a white country, you literally deserve to be killed. If all Jews were like you pre WW2, I really don't blame the German people
Six million is nothing compared to other massacres
And anyway, Israeli aren't diaspora cucks, so it's mostly a problem with your Jews

you know that Nazi 'socialism' wasn't socialism in the normative (read: Marxian) sense.

The use of the word socialism was to elucidate solidarity among all people and opposition to Jewish banking, as well as to drum up support among trade union types by using familiar rhetoric.

>the redpilled Jew takes to pol

what on god's green earth is fucking happening?

Petty sure hes a filthy kike, so no surprise hes against National Socialism, but he doesn't have any actual arguments against it so he just claims it will fuck us over to try and keep us from redpilling

Pro: Good for ethnic cleansing

Con: The country be guilt tripped and self loathing ever after

Oh my god, I never thought that I would see one of the tribe I didn't hate

Watching his discourse with the Israeli flag (presumably a jew) made this quite obvious.

I want them to meme at eachother more.

...

This isn't so rare on here 2bh
Israelis are just better than your jews

>White people are the reason we're here, the reason we have a country, and they created the culture that inspired ours , here in Israel. The fact that some krauts tried to kill their jews is not a reason to whine and bitch forever.

Thank you based Israeli.

Pros: anti-Communist

Cons: Keynsianism, racial division between Nordic and Anglo-Saxon, Catholicism, cult of personality, gun confiscation

>And anyway, Israeli aren't diaspora cucks, so it's mostly a problem with your Jews
I mean I have no problem with Israel as long as they aren't hypocrites. I'm actually pretty pro israel, but the hypocrisy of Benny criticizing Trump for not wanting to let in refugees is fucking stupid.

You guys obviously don't let in a ton of muslims, why should anybody in your country have a problem with if we don't want to?

>pros
>national socialism

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Whatever kiddo

What makes your Jew better than our Jews?

Pros: it lets bland, edgy zeroes have a bit of kitschy fun dressing up and marching around pretending to be relevant.
Cons: it's a failed idea barely still in living memory, kitsch presented as culture, from a time where many reasonable people were convinced that Nietzschian villainy was a better alternative to proletarian revolt. Savagery dressed up in silly clothes as epic.

Or Israelis wish they could genocide the Arabs.

They actually live in their own country

>gun confiscation

retarded you are.

How much do some jews dislike other jews, and is there any group of jews which openly points the finger at those jews who try to actively get the whole tribe killed by meddling with other nation's affairs?

Or do you all sort of huddle up and stay silent while the internationalists are cucking some money out of Germany?

National socialism doesn't involve marxist socialism

Pros: Racial societies for every race, not just white people.

Incredible cultural homogeneity.

Freedom from globalist empires

Cons: The jews will lose all their money for some reason.

and how has proletarian revolt worked? The more left-wing proletarian a country is the worst it is.

because ashkenazis are crybabies wherever they are, and they are the ones you really hate. They want some gay liberal israel, and they treat palestinans better than religious Jews. Its no wonder Tel Aviv which is where they like to live, is filled with gays.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2088319/Tel-Aviv-trumps-New-York-named-worlds-best-gay-city.html

wtf Joshua would have burned it to the ground and killed everyone

You are officially nullified from this discussion.

haha ashkenazi plate licker BTFO

I'd go further: the plebs were told everyone would be equal and everyone's job would be valued as it pushed for the Fatherland. The elites and officers were told they would be a top tier of planetary masters with victory granting them the right to swagger around fucking and fighting any time they want (the edgy teen dream).
The inner circle were told they would exploit the stupidity and greed of the rest and enrich themselves beyond their wildest fantasy, raised up above all others by virtue of their Will, protecting their ownership with force and fraud.
Basically a cataclysmic return to prehistory, but with science applied to industry and arms. We can talk, but if you win i will shoot you in the face, bitch.

Pros
>nationalism
Cons
>socialism

Bib will do anything to make us look good and survive diplomatically. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, like the Trump thing.
I support your sovereignty and oppose foreign influence on the US for the record.
The Jewish identity had developed a range of problems, most of which can be fixed by transforming the Jewish religious-ethnic identity into a national identity. Diaspora has always viewed themselves as separate from the rest of their nation, while an Israeli understands the value of patriotism and loyalty.
Also true
We generally view those who stay in diaspora as cowards, and we know a lot of them are leftists. We are simply not the same people, they are separate from us as much as the Germans and the Japanese are. They talk about Zionism as if they have a right to mention our founding national idea.
Nobody is openly going against them, yet, but most people here don't even know that much about it. Hopefully it'll change soon.

But even the conservatives in Israel criticize western countries that don't want to take in millions of "harmless women and children"

Regardless they shouldn't play as much of a role in politics as they do in our country. Israel that is.

Cuba is one of the best Caribean nations.

Essentially my entire argument. Although, I'm starting to think that a move toward authoritarianism might be a good thing.

Do you ever have fears of being conflated with evil jews and then suffering for no good reason just by association?

>pros
Nice aesthetics
You'll get more rich if you're an industrialist since lol no labour laws

>cons
no labour laws
everything you do is for the state, no time for yourself goyim, work fur das Vaterland
absolutely no legal protection
constant fear of war
eventually you'll get raped by soviets

>The inner circle were told they would exploit the stupidity and greed of the rest and enrich themselves beyond their wildest fantasy

And they did, bro, they did. Check out the art plunder carried out by Goring

My father is a doctor in this country, but if we were in Israel, he'd be a street sweeper or a labourer due to ashkenazi racism towards Mizrahi. I'm going to move to Israel, but now is not the time. I'll wait until all the stabber colonies are wiped out.

maorifag detected

>implying the failure of Nazism meant the success of socialism
WWII was a choice between tyrants, not a victory of freedom over tyranny. International fascism thought warfare should solve everything, more democratic societies were basically owned and run by merchants (inb4 ze jooze).
Democracies don't fight each other much though, they just sell weapons to the poor bastards actually fighting in the 40 odd small scale wars that have been running non-stop for the last 60 years.

This will probably be multiple posts, but as an actual economist I'll try to answer this succinctly and seriously. First in order to understand fascism's economic aspect you must understand corporatism. No, not corporatism that you are probably thinking of with people protesting about today(when most people say corporatism, they mean corprotocracy but that doesn't sound quite right).

Corporatism as a theory is simply the government delegating an activity to a private group; it is not necessarily "left" or "right" to use common political dichotomies (side note: This is a huge reason why fascists claimed to be revolutionary and post-partisan and why some left wing elements folded into fascism) For example one could have the government delegate accreditation of lawyers and doctors to private groups, then use the forces of government to support those decisions. The government could put trade unions in charge of all safety regulation, or it could delegate the minimum wage to whatever a peak association of employers and unions agree upon. (These are all examples of corporatism in existence today).

While corporatism is not necessarily "right" or "left" the very act of delegating out responsibilities to private groups, and then being anti-left (you know, due to being fascist) meant that various right-wing conglomerates were empowered in the a fascist economy. Large economic conglomerates, corporations, the upper-middle class, and other "traditional elites" were the largest beneficiaries of the fascist economy.
However what I just described is a "base" fascist economy. Germany had the added aspect of a complicated administrative system with more central planning than any other fascist economy in Europe (Italy, Hungary, Spain, Portugal, etc...)

>Nice aesthetics

SS uniforms were god tier, absolutely awesome.

Firstly a bit about administration in Nazi Germany. While we have the image of a perfect machine of efficiency for Germany during WWII this efficiency had rather counterintuitive sources and wasn’t from its bureaucratic setup. In a traditional bureaucracy you have a chain of people that report to others, that eventually folds like a tournament bracket until you reach somebody in charge. In Nazi Germany there were intentionally vague and competing offices of power with overlapping jurisdictions, unclear responsibilities, and unclear power relationships, not to mention sometimes you had people either holding multiple positions or hopping from one position to another with alarming frequency as their personal relationship with Hitler changed. (If you want examples of this I encourage you to just look at a basic trajectory of the careers of Goering, Speer, and Bormann. Goering lost very few of his “offices” even as he lost favor with Hitler, but his titles quickly amounted to nothing.) To further complicate things the entire country’s bureaucratic implementation was split into two parallel bureaucracies with the Gau system of the NSDAP as a party and the Governmental system of the states of Germany. (This split between the state and party is seen across Germany during Hitler’s rule, for example in the Court System with the normal courts and the “People’s Courts”, the Army and the SS, etc…)

From 1933 to 1937 Hjalmar Schacht was Germany’s minister for the economy. He oversaw a fairly orthodox economic program with high military spending as part of the economy (over 10% spending in 1935). Heavy borrowing to fund infrastructure and reduce unemployment. Reduction in reparations repayment. Currency manipulation to boost consumer spending. At the same time Germany banned all independent trade unions and folded them into a new corporate structure, began conscripting young men (thus removing the need for them to find employment, and note for German statistics when men were on rotation and training the reserves, they were counted as employed, meaning you had a sort of carousel of employment which altered statistics ), and moved women out of the work force (In 1933 they were approximately 1/4 of the workforce, by 1937 they were 1/9) By 1935 Germany had a universal “labor service” where people were (sometimes) conscripted for employment purposes. German companies and conglomerates (empowered by corporatism) achieved almost unbelievable returns on capital investment despite real production barely increasing. Everyone loves to point to unemployment, but it is one of many factors of an economy, one that would have spiked again if this house of cards fell without war. Then this is to say nothing of underemployment. Professional and middle class jobs shrank from 1929 until 1938 (outside of the military) , but I’m not aware of any statistics measuring this specifically other than Nazi Gau memos mentioning it might be a problem.

pros: good economy, no poverty, no degeneracy, safety, nationalism, no jews

cons:no freedom of speech, can't own guns.

By 1937 Germany had to choose. Either reduce military spending, increase trade, and attempt to save the economy from overheating (which is what Orthodox economists and Keynesians were suggesting) or fully “commit”, and prepare for war. That combined with Nazi ideologies and the idea that economic autarky could be achieved via new conquests in the east meant the German economy continued to overheat from an already dangerous level. Price controls were intensified to control inflation and wages totally stagnated. The recovery that began in 1931 (before the Nazis came to power) which had been overseen by actual economists like Schacht was either squandered due to the confusing German bureaucracy, or been made unsustainable through military rearmament. Price controls, labor “conscription”, currency manipulation, propaganda, and unsustainable spending kept the economy afloat and people employed until war and eventually total war in 1942, when Albert Speer managed to rationalize this mess of an economy for war production (but while an interesting story, it is another one).

Just to give an idea of how “shallow” the Nazi economic recovery was;
From 1928 to 1939:
Government debt increased 400%
Real Wages rose 6% from 1932-1939.
Despite this marginal increase Germany’s GDP nominally increased by almost 60% (this should set off alarm bells)
Wages as a part of the German economy fell form 68% in 1928, to 56% in 1933, to 52% in 1939.
Turned a substantial trade surplus into a negative balance of trade.
Domestic consumption in food staples (meat, milk, bread, etc…) reached 1928 levels only in 1937, where it promptly crashed again until the end of the war.
I could probably fill a full post with this, but I’m not inclined to and hopefully I made my point.

The art plunder is famous, but his shiny uniforms and jodhpurs and general wacky posturing around is a part of the whole bland-thug-in-the-high-seat phenomenon.

Dude he lives in a Jewish country. That's like saying if you were living in a traditional western country if you're worried about SJWs.

Yes, another reason I dislike them. ell it's happening everyday on Sup Forums
At some point you guys will begin talking about it, and then Israelis will recognize that those people are not our brothers, but just a greedy group using our name to get privilege points and shekels, and that they do nothing but harm us while bribing our politicians.
You don't deserve Israel, and your father doesn't deserve NZ for raising a traitor.

>socialism
>good economy

WHEN WILL THIS MEME FUCKING DIE ALREADY?

>since lol no labour laws

What was the 40 hour work week?
What was giving your employees a vacation?
What was having a cafeteria and toilets for your employees?

Wew lad.

>absolutely no legal protection

Their laws were pioneering western civilization and went as far as to include animal rights, which many countries use today.

I'll read and respond to your posts in my next reply.

His reply below yours seems to imply otherwise.

Do you think we ever have a chance to regain our self-determination (both yours and ours), or are we totally fucked?

Does Israel's economy suffer from international jewry as well?

How does morale stay high when you're locked into constant war?

why are americans so retarded? socialism of nazism have nothing to do with all other kinds of socialist(marxist socialism)

Pro: We have the best ovens. They have supernatural efficiency.
Con: Jews make up a bunch of shit about our ovens, claiming they have supernatural efficiency.

Also rosenberg and Goebbels

I'm aware, Hitler at least was opposed to communism, but mostly because of the jew's stranglehold of it. Socialism still puts the state and it's people before the market/economy and that is fine, but having that without also being strict on who you let in is the dumb part.

I think of it like a gym membership:
>You make a gym that is awesome with the best equipment and trainers.
>There are a bunch of programs and systems you can use to your benefit.
>You make the gym membership cost a lot to gaurantee that the users treat the equipment right, or else they can't get in and use the gym. That's sort of like National Socialism.

Socialism without Nationalism is like a really nice gym but anyone can use it despite their membership status. It sounds good at first, but eventually the pajeets and Muh Hammuds start shitting on the bench press and pissiang on the treadmills. Libertarianism/Free-Market states is like using rocks and fallen trees to get swole, and anyone who doesn't think creatively enough to get swole will get their shit pushed in.

yeah but that's just how war goes, if the nazis won the white race would've dominated the world by now.

Don't you ever read?

F.A. Hayek conclusively had proven that there is no difference between socialism and nazism when it relates to the economy, or what it degenerates into

mises.org/library/road-serfdom-0

I have hope, nationalism is a basic human drive, especially ethnically driven one. What they are trying to do is to pervert human nature for the benefit of their global system, while we are responding to our instincts and to the fire that always burns within us. Their resistance is almost futile, they are fighting against the natural way of things in almost every way.
When war will come to your lands, true war, your people will wake up whether they want it or not.
Don't know about the economy but we do have moral degeneration just like you.
And morale is high because of the war, I think, we were molded by war(as europe was) and it made us strong. There's very little panic in times of war, everybody knows the deal, we trust our army and we want to survive.

the difference is that it works

post more senpai.

nice try scholomo

>digging ditches

>What was giving your employees a vacation?


The only really popular gov program in the third reich. But it was used mostly by the ss and nazi party officials

>absolutely no legal protection

He his right. Unions were quickly dismembered. Not to mention the working conscription, wich i doubt the 40 hour workweek applied.

>animal rights
>muh animal rights
>muh smoking studies

Anyone can claim to be an economist. Link sources.

because germany was not shit after ww1 and it didn't became a world power during ww2 right?

Hitler didn't borrow any money. He printed his own and set one Reichsmark equal to one unit of labor.

At the end of the war only states had debt, the national government very little.

Also, I think you need some sources to back up those figures.

That was inspiring.

When do you think the "great awakening" will come, and the war will ensue?

>using mises as a source when talking about socialism

So workers owned the means of production in Nazi germnay?

>I'm aware, Hitler at least was opposed to communism

So was Poland

...

What are the tribes of jews and which are the cool ones?

>it didn't became a world power during ww2 right?
No it didn't, lol. Very far from it.

They took a pretty masssive beating from USSR

>There's very little panic in times of war, everybody knows the deal, we trust our army and we want to survive.
Tragic citizen reduced to trusting pigs implicitly on the basis of survival anxiety.
Congratulations, you're basically a germ.

>Workers own the means of production

You don't actually believe that Marxist meme do you? Don't you mean (((workers)))

>Hitler didn't borrow any money.

He "borrowed" from the bank of Greece

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_occupation_of_Greece

are you just one guy posting as left/pol/ or are there several of you guys?

I see you talk about communism and socialism, but haven't heard you talk about Nationalism. What is your opinion on nationalism?

I'm not personally a socialist, but the workers owning the means of production is a pretty basic defenition of marxist socialism.