Will normies ever appreciate him? Maybe in a couple hundred years, like Beethoven, Mozart etc?

>Influenced basically all top-tier Jazz/fusion/outside-shit/technical guitarists who came after him.
>Named the GOAT by anyone who can hold a guitar and has heard him.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=J8wE6KvpExk
youtu.be/AeXSQl56no8
youtube.com/watch?v=rhUMUeyrlNY
scribd.com/document/321048992/Pat-Martino-Sacred-Geometry
truefire.com/pat-martino/the-nature-of-guitar/c1002
youtube.com/watch?v=TjE896B2QUE
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Speaking as an advanced guitarist I can confirm OP is talking shit. He was absolutely crap as anyone who has ever picked up a guitar will know.

mozart and beethoven were all hugely successful during their lifetime, and even moreso after their deaths. allan was highly respected within the jazz world but was more of a regional favorite in different pockets of the world rather than a household name. his lack of wanting to become that household name or 'popular' within the lower levels of guitar players is why he went out how he did. but he's a gem for those who actually listen to him, and have enough musical comprehension to enjoy/understand his work. you pretty much can't go wrong with any of his studio albums from the 80s and early 90s. i just wish there was more (or actual) pro footage of his tours in the early 90s, i think he was in his absolute peak there. with the late 90s being his last peak push, thankfully we have this decent NAMM video to show it: youtube.com/watch?v=J8wE6KvpExk

>download.jpg

That’s not Joe Pass

>not being aware of the greatest guitarist of our generation, download.jpg.

Youre a pleb. As an expert guitarist Id have to disagree. Just look at all those frets he is covering to play what is academically referred to as "impossible music". The aesthetic of his music isn't my taste, but we cant deny that he is a paradigm shifter.

If he’s so good why is he using effects? Checkmate

If he's so good how come i've never heard of him

If he’s so good why did he died?

His music isn’t very good sadly.

This. Sad!

John McLaughlin is my dude.

A Holdsworth thread...

I can get behind that.

UK - In the Dead of Night
youtu.be/AeXSQl56no8

maha is good, but listen to bundles by soft machine

Pat Martino accomplished so much more, twice when you factor in his stroke and having to relearn the instrument

epic...

he plays the same stuff from 72 till now

Too chad for this soyworld

Julian Lage will be remembered more than him desu
youtube.com/watch?v=rhUMUeyrlNY

That's not Jim Hall.

that main problem of lage that he doesn't know what to play. no personal style in this music.

Odd way to spell Derek Bailey

Literally who is the man in the OP pic

Look fuck you I have been playing guitar for over 10,000 hours which makes ME a madter retard. This guy sounds like a squirrel eating chestnuts

Alan Holdsworth

My man.

he began to play four notes on the string like oz noy does nowadays. he was deep into unusual chord voicing.
you like it or not but he did great

Literally who
Never heard of him, dont think some rando geetar man is gonna be near Mozart or Beethoven lmao

that ain't Hendrix, bro

I love Pat Martino, but I don't think he's revolutionized the guitar in the same way some of his be bop contemporaries or Holdsworth did. Like, the key figures in jazz guitar are Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Jim Hall, Joe Pass...Each of them changed or was highly influential in the development of the guitar's role in music (specifically jazz). Christian's playing showcased the guitar's potential as a lead instrument in jazz ensembles, Django was a charismatic showman and technician who further pivoted the guitar into a leading spot, Montgomery developed some of the most fundamental language for be bop on guitar, Benson infused Montgomery's phrasing with modern R&B and pop sensibilities (making it very accessible for his audience), Hall was a prolific teacher and collaborator with a distinctive style, and Pass set the standard for solo jazz guitar using chord melodies. Holdsworth was definitely up there as an innovator because of his scalar, wide interval approach to leads, unorthodox construction of chords, and technically phenomenal phrasing based on saxophone-like legato.

I just don't see Martino having that kind of influence. His technique is fucking flawless and his phrasing is great, but if you break down what he's playing there's nothing that groundbreaking there; I hear a LOT of Wes in his leads and chord work, maybe some John Coltrane and Django as well, but those influences go back to paradigms set by past musicians; they don't sound like the birth of a new approach to the instrument.

Idk, fight me.

Is this guy into Devil worship or sumthin?

Eh, you should read The Nature Of Guitar by Pat, you know he came up with his own guitar centric theory/method of learning/understanding guitar.
scribd.com/document/321048992/Pat-Martino-Sacred-Geometry

Woops, here’s a better link but Google fu for the book.
truefire.com/pat-martino/the-nature-of-guitar/c1002

I'm very aware of Martino's approach; I've read this article before and watched a few videos of him explaining it. Here's my take on it: it's so far removed from traditional approaches to jazz improvising that only Martino himself seems to really utilize it. I haven't talked to many other jazz guitar players who understand it, except to say that it's his unique approach and it works for him. In order to even think of improvised music the way Martino does, you need a solid command of jazz harmony which requires a considerable amount of music theory knowledge, and by the time you can apply that theory to your own playing you're probably already thinking about phrasing in a more general sense anyway (which I think is a positive thing, because it allows you to transcend thinking about music only as it specifically relates to your preferred instrument). Like, it's one thing to know that you can convert diminished triads to corresponding minor chords and then base your improvising around that, but it's also important to understand why that works within the context of the evolution of jazz language (which I don't think Martino's system really gets at).

Allan holds something

When John McLaughlin and Frank Gambale who have played with every jazz legend from Miles to Chick Corea couldn't understand what he was playing, why would you ever expect the general public to? Be grateful that he chose to be a guitar player.

Do you really think the general public understands jazz harmony anyway? Unless you're an advanced musician, John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth might as well be the same guy for all you'd know about what makes them special as individual musicians.

>Do you really think the general public understands jazz harmony anyway?
Of course not. They might have heard about bebop from L.A. Noire as being the new jazz you could no longer dance to.
>Unless you're an advanced musician, John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth might as well be the same guy
Exactly. To the contrary, jazz rescued itself out of being dance music by being obscure and more harmonically sophisticated, which I think likely innovators should remain as.

Pseud core. Bailey had nothing to do with jazz

Ive ironically practiced more hours and am not larping. Jazz school expert played 4 hours a night on shitty cruse ships for 8 years. Id slay you. Im a pro. youre a a cunt trying to funny or something.

At least guitar players started appreciating Allan's work more after his death, if YouTube is anything to go by. I respect the man even more for what he always was, apart from a musical genius and innovator - a lad from Bradford.

It could've been progressively funnier at least, but no.

It would be hard to say that he wasn't appreciated in his own time either though. Some of the biggest rock guitarists of the '70s and '80s like Van Halen and Steve Vai cited Holdsworth as an influence. I don't think Holdsworth was ever chasing that same level of recognition; he just wanted a format to showcase his love of sax players like Coltrane.

>jazz rescued itself out of being dance music by being obscure and more harmonically sophisticated
Thank god for black bebop musicians.

>It would be hard to say that he wasn't appreciated in his own time either though. Some of the biggest rock guitarists of the '70s and '80s like Van Halen and Steve Vai cited Holdsworth as an influence.
True, although not outside of guitar player circles did he ever became known to the general public. And I say, for the better. Everyone and their mother knows about Jimi Hendrix, even though he's laughable in any way compared to what Allan has achieved.

And no, a dominant 7#9 chord doesn't make you a genius.

I agree that he generally wasn't well-known outside of the guitar-playing populace, but he certainly left a mark on the lexicon of popular guitar music through his work. A lot of people associate Eddie Van Halen with tapping, even though using tapping to play wide intervalic licks was clearly inspired by Holdsworth's soloing. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I would make a case for Hendrix being on the same level of genius as Holdsworth, but as someone who's genius lay in the development of other facets of musicality. I have no doubt that Hendrix experienced music in much the same fashion as Holdsworth, because both musicians were able to express themselves through the guitar in highly individualistic but impactful ways; to someone with a trained ear and appreciation for jazz, Coltrane comes through Holdsworth just as easily as Muddy Waters comes through Hendrix.

whose genius*

When Bob Dylan prefers your version of his song, you know you've done something extraordinary. That's the aspect Jimi was never appreciated enough for - songwriting and arrangement.

He won't be remembered like Mozart or Beethoven because he was a pretty bad composer.

Terrific guitar player, but couldn't write a single decent song not even if his life depended on ot. Just like most virtuosos.

1.Listen to Tokyo Dream
2. Change your mind
3. Cry
4. Refrain from shitposting
youtube.com/watch?v=TjE896B2QUE
Not to mention that his compositions harmonically surpassed both Mozart and Beethoven by a thousand miles.