Was life under the Empire bad for anyone who wasn't a Jedi?
For example, these two crackers were doomed to be moisture farmers regardless of if Sheev took over or what. In fact, the only people who seem disrupted by the Empire were those who were seemingly randomly trying to rebel against how "evil" it was
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
twitter.com
what the fuck is moisture farming anyway
didn't the empire crack down on crime in City plannets like Corosaunt?
>Was life under the Empire bad for anyone who wasn't a Jedi?
>Posts two characters who were murdered by the Empire with their charred corpses left in the ruins of their house
Cracking down on crime makes the Empire evil?
>Empire blows up an entire planet with subjects/citizens just to intimidate a rebel
>hurr was the umpire so bad?
Is life under a world controlled by America bad for anyone who isn't American?
For example, people in syria are doomed to be minced meat regardless of if america took over or what In fact, the only people who seem disrupted by America are those who were seemingly randomly trying to rebel against how "evil" it was.
Life under the emipre was fine as long as you weren't on a fucking traitor planet.
yeah, cause if your nephew buys a droid that just so happens to have death star plans on it, the empire will send stormtroopers to your house and burn you alive
Legends canon had them take wookies as slaves to build the death star for some reason.
>Empire blows up rebel sympathising planet who provide arms, ships, money and hiding places to rebel scum
ftfy
I thought Tatooine wasn't part of the Republic/Empire
People were rebelling way before anyone blew up a planet though. You're confusing cause and effect. They blew up a planet in response to the rebellion, not the other way around. You can't use that as a reason for the rebellion after the fact.
You can possibly attribute something else as to the reason people rebelled, but not the death star itself.
>Is life under a world controlled by America bad for anyone who isn't American?
The sufferings of third world nations are greatly dramatized by liberals
Then don't steal plans to a space station belonging to the government
But they didn't. Neither did the Jawas that were murdered either.
Probably not, the whole rebellion was just assblasted senators trying to restore the republic, because they never got into Sheevs nepotistic circle.
>Was life under the British Empire bad for anyone who wasn't a traitor?
Seriously, what gave them the right to decide for the rest of the colonsits if they wanted to stay or not? It's not as if everyone rebelled, most colonists probably would've been fine and gotten on wit their lives if the British won. Also the civil war never would've happened if the British won
>Then don't steal plans to a space station belonging to the government
wasn't their fault tho
>But they didn't. Neither did the Jawas that were murdered either.
Luke and Obi-Wan both have force powers and knew the droid was dangerous and contained the plans; Luke just didn't give a fuck about his dumb fucking aunt and cuck uncle
Some random gook living in nagasaki also wasn't at fault for pearl harbor, and yet we nuked him anyway.
War is hell.
Well the Emperor did just disband the entire senate on that exact day. They had to show something that they shouldn't be fucked with or there would have been civil war.
Well, they removed Jedi council that hold major power in republic even though it was a cult that didn't practice democracy.
Uh what? As soon as Luke realizes it was the Empire who killed the Jawas he immediately runs home.
>Also the civil war never would've happened if the British won
freedom ain't free
go read Dune you fucking pleb.
For people living in the Outer Rim, it was basically the same. But most of the galaxy's population is in the Core planets like Alderaan, Coruscant, and Corellia. It was a huge deal for them.
The real-life equivalent would be like Guam and the USA. Whether the US is fascist, communist, a representative democracy, whatever, Guam is always going to be an irrelevant little autonomous backwater with a military base. But for people living in the 50 states, it's a huge deal who's in charge.
this is a terrible looking green screen.
And why don't they ever have kids?
Are you retarded? People who live in the desert still need to drink water.
Actually the US independence movement started precisely because it was so prosperous and by the 1700s it had already developed it's own elite. Revolutions are rarely from the top down.
If Britain had been a bit smarter and divided America into constituencies with parliamentary representation in London, the likes of Franklin and Washington would have access to political power and would see no point in rebelling.
Similarly, the rebel alliance had it's origin in no other than the Alderaan elite, because Sheev took their power away when he reorganized the Galaxy. If Mr. Palpatine had invited the Organas into his circle of power the rebellion could have ended overnight.
Jedi are fucking retards.
You guys are both underlining the fact that yes, the Empire was evil. Indiscriminately killing innocents on an omnicidal scale is practically the apex of villainy.
I know everyone loves to meme and be snarky contrarians, but come on.
I suppose, collecting water in the desert climate of the planet. At least it makes sense in the context of Duna which SW ripped off.
In OT the Jedi were somewhat about benevolent space wizards and knights which stood for justce, freedom and American way^WWW. But in PT the Jedi are high up their own asses, even Qui Gon. Heck, he doesn't even care in the slightest about slavery on Tatooine. The only reason Anakin's mother allowed him to help the Jedi is because she hoped at least he would be freed as a valuable tool, not because they are actually concerned with the fates of slaves and the oppressed. WTF.
I guess raising one random kid is enough financially for a family living from the not so lucrative business of moisture farming in the desert,
>rarely from the bottom up
fixd
>People who live in the desert still need to drink water.
You realize we're talking about films that a) take place centuries from now and b) feature laser swords as weapons?
>of Dune
>If Britain had been a bit smarter and divided America into constituencies with parliamentary representation in London, the likes of Franklin and Washington would have access to political power and would see no point in rebelling.
The funny thing is that they already divided America into constituencies. Franklin presented a plan to the British government that would have granted parliamentary representation to individual colonies, which is perfectly reasonable because Philly and New York were the largest cities in the Empire other than London. But the British said "no fuck you now pay taxes you never agreed to and let our soldiers crash in your living rooms".
>centuries from now
What is a long long time ago
>Similarly, the rebel alliance had it's origin in no other than the Alderaan elite, because Sheev took their power away when he reorganized the Galaxy. If Mr. Palpatine had invited the Organas into his circle of power the rebellion could have ended overnight.
It's different in Star Wars, though. The Organas were already in Palpatine's circle of power, they personally experienced no difference in influence or security. They chose to oppose Palpatine on principle, as did Mon Mothma (who was the Senator from another wealthy planet, which has a name I can't remember).
The people excluded from the Imperial power structure were the non-humans. That's why there were so many of them fighting for the rebels and so few fighting for the Empire.
Right, but the humans in Star Wars are still humans as far as we know when it comes to things like needing food and water. "Moisture farming" presumably involves taking water from the air, since iirc Luke calls those machines "vaporators" and his family has plenty of water despite living in the middle of a desert with no water source.
It's just one fucking planet in a galaxy with shittons of sentient species, literally the lowest common denominator of the setting. For the Empire it's a drop in the bucket.
who's telling these stories anyways? they seem to be narrated by someone who's not from the star wars galaxy...
>a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away?
You missed my point.
PEOPLE WERE REBELLING BEFORE ALDERAAN WAS DESTROYED
If I were to ask why people rebelled against the empire, you can't just point to alderaan, because that had not yet happened when they decided to start a civil war.
It's still a planet with billions of people. It's the relative equivalent of the British government deciding to nuke Birmingham. Would anyone really care? Probably not. But it's the principle of the thing, if Birmingham goes then cities that aren't shitholes might be next.
That was the whole point of destroying Alderaan. "If we can destroy this prosperous, large planet, we can destroy any planet, we don't care".
>That's why there were so many of them fighting for the rebels and so few fighting for the Empire.
I only saw humans on either side in Star Wars. All the aliens were just neutral and didn't give a fuck, like all the random aliens on Luke's homeworld.
>Discussing Star Wars lore
I think his point is that Alderaan caused the rebellion to expand dramatically. Before Alderaan, the rebels were basically terrorists with a small fleet. Remember the opening text of Episode 4? The rebellion won its "first victory" only just before the movie, despite being going on long enough to be known by a backwards hick like Luke. Before Episode 4, they were just a small force led by a few political idealists and a lot of upset aliens.
Blowing up Alderaan was the catalyst that made half the galaxy and a ton of humans rise up against the Empire.
>19 years before blowing up Alderaan: Everything is fine in the Empire
>3 years after blowing up Alderaan: The Emperor, Vader, and half the Imperial Fleet are all gone
I find a lot of parallels with nuking/firebombings japan. The whole idea was to use a weapon of overwhelming power to beat them into submission once and for all.
The idea of the death star is essentially just a WMD but on a galactic scale. Don't fuck with us or we'll blow you up.
>doomed to be moisture farmers
Better then a wage slave living in an rented flat.
>I only saw humans on either side in Star Wars.
You weren't paying attention then. The leader of the Rebel military is a giant squid-looking alien, and most of the staff on his ship are the same kind of alien. Lando's co-pilot is an alien.
In the EU (technically not canon, but whatever) there are tons of aliens all over the rebel military. The Empire, on the other hand, has just one alien, Thrawn.
underrated
First victory doesn't mean the galactic civil war wasn't raging beforehand. It just means this was the first time the rebels actually made any headway.
Yes, the destruction of alderaan caused an escalation. But it still doesn't answer the question as to why the rebels initially decided to rebel in the first place. We can't just ignore causality here.
>I find a lot of parallels with nuking/firebombings japan.
Then you don't understand the nukings or firebombings of Japan. The bombings of Japan were acts of total war against an "enemy" people that the US and Asia had been fighting for at least 4 years (in the case of the Chinese, about 10 years). It was an attempt to destroy their industrial capacity and be the straw that broke the camel's back morale-wise.
The Death Star as it was used in Episode 4 is nothing more than a weapon of fear to be used on civilian populations already under the control of the empire, to keep them in line. It's a completely different situation, which is a lot more similar to Japanese atrocities against Chinese civilian populations already under their control (Unit 731, stabbing babies in Nanjing, etc.).
That shit wasn't there until Jedi. All the rebels in Star Wars (and Empire) were humans.
That difference in situation doesn't change the analogy. It doesn't matter who the enemy is or whether its a civil war or external war. What matters is that it's a large-scale superweapon that can completely crush an enemy, and the fear of its continued use can be used to bring opponents to heel.
It's more like Genghis Khans "Slaughter a village, leave a village approach." Join us or we'll just kill you.
Firebombings yes, nukes no. Truman knew the nukes were a big deal.
>Yes, the destruction of alderaan caused an escalation. But it still doesn't answer the question as to why the rebels initially decided to rebel in the first place. We can't just ignore causality here.
Oh, then it's pretty straightforward. The rebel initially decided to rebel all the way back in Episode III. You see the beginnings of it in theatrical release of the movie, and it's handled more in-depth in the deleted scenes, where Padme, Organa, and Mothma begin openly discussing the possibility of revolution.
So it's a reaction to the Emperor shredding the Republic's constitution, giving all power to himself, and (in the EU) glassing planets like Camaas on a whim and enslaving entire species, like the Wookies.
>It doesn't matter who the enemy is or whether its a civil war or external war.
Yes, it does. Because if it's internal, and nobody is fighting back, then it's not an act of war. You're massacring your own people, which is completely different from an enemy population. Nobody in Alderaan was firing back, they were merely sheltering the rebels. If you want to point to a US military action that mirrors this, then if anything it has more in common with the American war against Afghanistan.
EU stuff doesn't count. And I'm not just saying that because of Disney. EU has always been licensed fanfiction. I could write literally whatever I want about the Empire and the Rebellion in an EU story and george would rubberstamp it so long as I didn't talk about Yoda's Race.
>Oh, then it's pretty straightforward. The rebel initially decided to rebel all the way back in Episode III. You see the beginnings of it in theatrical release of the movie, and it's handled more in-depth in the deleted scenes, where Padme, Organa, and Mothma begin openly discussing the possibility of revolution.
I figured it was something like that. What that really boils down to is one faction fighting back because they (the senators and the jedi) no longer hold the institutional power they once had. I don't see that as good vs evil so much as one group vs another group vying for dominance of politics.
Is the rebellion really that formal though?
Most of the factions in Syria didn't form until after the coup for example.
>Nobody in Alderaan was firing back, they were merely sheltering the rebels.
I literally and unironically don't see wrong with anything about that. Aiding rebels is an act of rebellion. Alderaan was a suitable target. Civil war vs external war doesn't matter, no matter what you say.
>american's talking about freedom
Fuck off neckbeard
>What that really boils down to is one faction fighting back because they (the senators and the jedi) no longer hold the institutional power they once had. I don't see that as good vs evil so much as one group vs another group vying for dominance of politics.
No, not at all. What it really boils down to is one faction fighting back because they believe in the notion of representative democracy, which the Emperor has completely done away with. Also the Emperor's re-institution of slavery across the galaxy, while during the Republic it was at least outlawed even though they had little ability to enforce it in outlying planets like Tatooine. The Organas, Mothma, and Padme had all the power they could have wanted over their own systems in the later days of Palpatine's rule and all the way up until Episode 4. If the rebellion was about institutional power, they wouldn't have done anything until he dissolved the Senate and put military governors in charge.
I know it's fun to play contrarian historian, but the Empire was just evil. Star Wars, especially the original trilogy, is very black-and-white.
>Is the rebellion really that formal though?
In the movies, yes. In the EU, it isn't, there's actually a whole other rebellion going on at the same time, led by an ex-Republic Admiral. But like the other user said, the EU doesn't matter much.
I've always wondered what exactly that index was based on. The more that I learn about single-payer healthcare policies in countries and the huge tax burdens (direct and indirect) and state presence in the economy of Nordic countries, the more I think these charts are bullshit.
>Civil war vs external war doesn't matter, no matter what you say.
It does, because by mass-murdering your own people you're implicitly saying that you don't care about the security of your own people. Aiding the rebels is certainly a bad thing, but why not simply capture the Organa family and execute them all, either publicly or privately? It's not like Alderaan has any ships, weapons, or soldiers to stop you. Just roll up with a few star destroyers, send in Vader+a battalion of soldiers, and there you go, problem solved.
The "Economic Freedom Index" is made by the Heritage Foundation, a right-wing US organization that has a vested interest on encouraging deregulation in our markets. If they said "oh yeah, American markets are great for business" then they would undermine their own political agenda.
It's like how SJWs keep saying "everyone conservative is Hitler" so they can fight their imaginary war against Nazis.
>No, not at all. What it really boils down to is one faction fighting back because they believe in the notion of representative democracy, which the Emperor has completely done away with.
Yeah, vying for a form of government that gives the people backing the rebellion (the senators) more power. And then there's this childish neocon idealism of democracy always being an ultimate good no matter what, rather than just another form of government.
>Also the Emperor's re-institution of slavery across the galaxy, while during the Republic it was at least outlawed even though they had little ability to enforce it in outlying planets like Tatooine.
I don't remember any of this. EU bullshit is irrelevant, as I already stated previously.
>The Organas, Mothma, and Padme had all the power they could have wanted over their own systems in the later days of Palpatine's rule and all the way up until Episode 4. If the rebellion was about institutional power, they wouldn't have done anything until he dissolved the Senate and put military governors in charge.
The senate was still around, but that doesn't mean they held the same degree of power that had as a republic. Obviously their power had been largely diminished even before they were completely done away with.
Well stone me, didn't realise joel edgerton was in it
7/10 nations ahead of america have large gov run healthcare systems, but I wouldn't mind parsing through how they rank their index as well.
Nordic countries also had the benefit of being homogeneous
NZ here. regulations on registered companies are much simpler here than the US (sole director and shareholder of small company here). like wtf even is all that delaware state of incorporation shit. US tax law is also fucking insane to navigate from a business perspective.
sure, single payer healthcare theoretically leverages a higher tax burden on the individual taxpayer, but out system is vastly simpler and easier to deal with
>Yeah, vying for a form of government that gives the people backing the rebellion (the senators) more power.
And, you know, the people themselves....also, even from the point of view of a neutral observer, surely giving power to Padme and the Organas is better than giving it to Palpatine? Padme, at the very least, is strongly opposed to war, murdering religious organizations she doesn't like, and blowing up planets.
>And then there's this childish neocon idealism of democracy always being an ultimate good no matter what, rather than just another form of government.
The Emperor is unquestionably evil, though. This isn't a story about discussing the merits of authoritarianism against fears of mob rule, it's an incredibly straightforward story about a madman starting wars and committing mass murder to increase his own personal power.
>I don't remember any of this. EU bullshit is irrelevant, as I already stated previously.
Good thing it's not just EU bullshit then. The Empire instituting slavery is a thing in the old "fanfic" canon and the new "official" junk Disney is churning out.
Under the Old Republic, nothing got done and war was rife across the galaxy. Under the Empire, shit got done and there was no war. The only person in the Empire that was actually evil was Palpatine, everyone else was making the best out the situation given to them.
I don't think they were terraforming it were they?
>tfw not a part of any list
feels badman
>Under the Old Republic, nothing got done and war was rife across the galaxy.
Oh yeah, war was so common that the Republic didn't even have an army...
>Under the Empire, shit got done and there was no war.
Except for the Rebellion
>The only person in the Empire that was actually evil was Palpatine
Tarkin and Vader?
>And, you know, the people themselves....also, even from the point of view of a neutral observer, surely giving power to Padme and the Organas is better than giving it to Palpatine? Padme, at the very least, is strongly opposed to war, murdering religious organizations she doesn't like, and blowing up planets.
The point I'm making is that it's just different factions vying for power though. None of this contradicts what I'm saying.
>The Emperor is unquestionably evil, though. This isn't a story about discussing the merits of authoritarianism against fears of mob rule, it's an incredibly straightforward story about a madman starting wars and committing mass murder to increase his own personal power.
This is like saying the American Revolutionaries were evil because they murdered people. Need to break eggs to make an omelette.
>Good thing it's not just EU bullshit then. The Empire instituting slavery is a thing in the old "fanfic" canon and the new "official" junk Disney is churning out.
I'm not talking about whatever official word of Lucas/Disney/whomever. Disney's "official" nu-EU matters just as little as the old EU. It's not the movies, it's irrelevant.
The only slavery in the original star wars is in ILLEGAL SLAVERY in the gangster Jabba's crime den.
Caruuuscant?
No, that'd kill the worms. Go read Dune nigga, you'll see its influence in a lot of huge sci-fi settings.
In what world is Tarkin and Vader evil? They are making the best out of a situation given to them.
They murdered billions of imperial citizens just to prove a point
They didn't fire the trigger
they were terraforming it. In that dude's sietch theres the massive pool, the fremen were subtly terraforming the planet over thousands of years. That's why they paid the guild for dark skies and no satellites. It's been a while since I read it
>The point I'm making is that it's just different factions vying for power though. None of this contradicts what I'm saying.
You're making it sound as though the two factions are morally equivalent.
>This is like saying the American Revolutionaries were evil because they murdered people. Need to break eggs to make an omelette.
No it isn't. The American Revolutionaries weren't killing for the fun of it. Sheev was having the time of his life slaughtering the Jedi, manipulating the entire galaxy into a war that he secretly controlled from start to finish....he's not a typical politician, he's a cartoon supervillain.
Anyone else think it's awesome that The Empire has been a representation of the republican party since New Hope?
A professor in my university gave an excellent lecture of the matter (A highly respected american university, that is) and how the Rebels are representing minorities and democrats, who want a prosperous, peaceful galaxy. Han is Obama, Leia is Hillary and Luke will be the next democratic presidential candidate, who will bring balance to the force. Really thought-provoking
Oh yeah there's that ecologist plotline, nevermind. It'd still kill the worms, though.
By your retarded logic Hitler isn't responsible for the deaths of 20 million Soviets because he didn't personally shoot each and every one of them, he only gave the orders.
fires the neurons, that's for sure
78136493
This is probably bait, but your professor is an idiot. The Republicans and the Democrats are way too similar politically to be as diametrically opposed as the Empire and the Rebels, they both occupy an incredibly tiny part of the global political spectrum and agree on pretty much all the fundamentals (representative democracy, federal constitutionalism, a mixed economy, one man one vote, etc.).
Ah, who am I kidding, this is bait.
youtube.com
he's not wrong
>Indiscriminately killing innocents on an omnicidal scale is practically the apex of villainy.
That makes the Rebels villainous, as well -- considering they've blown up the Death Star twice that had millions inside.
Pretty much.
Also, the Rebels are hardly diametrically opposed to the Empire, that'd be total independence for every planet in the galaxy.
>considering they've blown up the Death Star twice that had millions inside.
The Death Star is a military installation that has "more firepower than half the fleet" (quote from one of the Imperial leaders in Ep 4). It's the size of a small moon and a lot of the functions that we would give to non-military personnel seem to be automated. It's completely different from blowing up an unarmed planet with billions of people.
Spotted the bigot.
It's about the comparison of freedom and slavery, ying and yang, peace and war, good and evil, black and white. The other side has equality, the other genocide people so basically republicans and democrats. Have a (you).
>You're making it sound as though the two factions are morally equivalent.
Yeah. They're both just separate factions who want power. Framing it in terms of good vs evil is childish. The republic was dogshit.
>No it isn't. The American Revolutionaries weren't killing for the fun of it. Sheev was having the time of his life slaughtering the Jedi, manipulating the entire galaxy into a war that he secretly controlled from start to finish....he's not a typical politician, he's a cartoon supervillain.
Sheev is only portrayed as a cartoon villain. Yeah, okay, so he cackles and shoots lightning. But what about the actual effects of the empire? The Empire actual gave more local control to regional governors. He's basically Emperor Tea Party. People seem to do pretty well - or at least the same as they ever were - under the empire unless they're rebels (ie, enemies of the state)
78136774
The Rebels are led by cisgendered whites. The Empire is led by a genderfluid transotherkin (the Emperor was a 70-year old woman in Episode 5 but a 35-year old man in Episode 6) and the leader of its military is a Person of Color who doesn't even have genitalia (because they were burned off by a disgusting religious cishet male).
>Framing it in terms of good vs evil is childish.
Star Wars is childish, that's my point.
>The republic was dogshit.
Absolutely. Even the good people in the prequels recognize this. Anakin talks about its inefficiency, Padme says that "the democracy we fight for no longer exists" (one of Lucas's few decent prequel lines). But Palpatine looks at all this and says "I should just take the whole thing over, that would be fun".
>The Empire actual gave more local control to regional governors.
Not elected regional governors. They're military officials appointed by the Empire.
>He's basically Emperor Tea Party.
No, he's Stalin.
>what are actors/actresses/xertresses
78137031
What is humor
>stalin in charge of genociding whole planets/communities
Try Hitler.