Sherlock

thoughts about new episode

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Eurus is a qt, pretty sure her backstory will be the sussex vampire and there will still be another sibling

Toby Jones was A+

Cumberbatch did good

Writing was the cleanest it has been in a long time

youtube.com/watch?v=XOca4Ept9Qg

;_;

also, awaiting some clue references in the next ep

>Good
Toby
Euros
Mary's dead

>Bad
Mary's still talking
Why would anyone agree to take a date rape drug?
Why didn't Sherlock recognise his sister (twice)?

>Ugly
Mary

I'd be surprised by that, it wasn't exactly a well known film over here as it never got a UK release at the cinema and it didn't come out on home media until a few years ago.

Yeah, I don't feel like it will happen for certain but they have mentioned the game Cluedo a few times in dialogue and I think also on the blogs so it's going to be fun if they do give it a mention

Unwatchable as I can't even get past the first episode of this season. Shit Tv.

The latest episode was the only good one since the season 2 finale.

I've never watched this show. Explain to me why it sucks all of a sudden.

All of season 3 and the first episode of season 4 were about Dr. Watson's 70 year old wife who's a super secret ninja assassin

best one in a while

>tfw I can deduce what exactly I'll be doing in two weeks because I'll be shitposting here as I always am

First 2 seasons were a very straightforward Holmes adaptation with decent writing and lots of references to original Holmes canon

Then the writing became very convoluted and full of silly tweests

imo it's because the show is about Sherlock's development as a person, and not about the mysteries, and the writers have gradually stopped writing the mysteries well and turned it into alot of drama between the characters (which was their plan all along as far as i know but they could have done it better)

They have a long term plan in mind so in their heads this is all going very smoothly but for the average viewer it just looks like a fucked to death pile of shit that makes less and less sense; their love for the canon is strong but its getting obscured by alot of bullshit

I'm pretty invested in seeing what they want to do with the characters because I like the idea but I also think they're being sloppy, when they had plenty of time to make it elegant and enjoyable for everyone

What was that shit with mrs. hudson and the aston martin? Trying way too hard with that character nowadays

It's funny because it's true. She owns an apartment building in central london. It's so expensive a doctor has to have a roommate there. She can definitely afford an Aston Martin.

Mrs hudson is pretty annoying tbqhfam

Hopefully the show keeps improving now that Mary's terrible story line is over.

>Mary's dead
>Mary's still talking
>tfw

Oh well, I liked her character. Shame to see her go out in such a goofy fashion, but I liked her in The Lying Detective.

>Why didn't Sherlock recognise his sister (twice)?
I think it's implied in the teaser that Sherlock either a) doesn't know she exists/can't remember (date raped when he was a kid) or b) she "died" when Sherlock was a kid

We'll see though, you have to remember that the show, moreso in S3 and S4, isn't really a mystery of the week. Have to wait for all the pieces to see the puzzle.

We out of this thread, you reptile.

Sure hope you don't die before 25th, I'd hate to see you fail your prediction.

the first one was shite but the second made up for it imo

>oh I've got lots of secret passages throughout the hospital, I just did what HH Holmes did and switched contractors midway through

That's not how the construction industry works any more, you fucker. What's next, a case involving a kid working as a chimney sweeper?

This.

The over-the-top driving was silly, though.

It hasn't changed, it just became about Sherlock (S3) and Watson (S4), instead of about Moriarty.

The mystery was never really the point, and it certainly wasn't in the books either. It's the dynamic of the characters and their interactions.

The problem isn't that the show is focusing on giving every character PTSD, it's that it doesn't have a strong antagonist. There is a third wheel missing in an otherwise distraught arc for our two leads.

Nobody is actually challenging Holmes, so the adventure seems secondary to the character development, thus every episode seems laced with exposition towards emotions, specifically really fucking depressing emotions.

Killing Moriarty was one of the show's greatest moments, and unfortunately (as much as I did, in fact, enjoy S3 and Mary's character) its worst decision.

So basically Moriarty is dead, and the whole miss me thing was Eurus using Jim to troll Sherlock, much like how Mary did it with her dvd. Fuck.

>mfw they had to have Mrs. Hudson explain to Watson (the retarded viewers) how she could afford an expensive car despite clearly defining her backstory throughout the series

reeeeee stop catering to your stupid fucking Dr. Who audience, Moofhat.

DUDE FEMINISM LMAO the episode

The Westworld thread is over ther- oh wait, there aren't any anymore.

Anyway, you're in the wrong thread my man.

>Tfw Moriarty will never be back
Just kill me senpai

I agree with you for the most part. I do still feel like they have been a bit disorganized recently with some of the mysteries--I know the show isn't about the mysteries, nor were the ACD stories, but I think when someone is taking Sherlock Holmes as their storytelling vehicle there is a bit of expectation that the mysteries will be there to color in the backdrop a bit. I'm personally mostly satisfied with what they have done with the overall story of Sherlock's character but I just get a feeling in some eps that they could have put the adventure part together a bit better, just for aesthetic reasons.

>Nobody is actually challenging Holmes, so the adventure seems secondary to the character development, thus every episode seems laced with exposition towards emotions

Yeah

And this could have even become a good thing, like having Holmes eventually realize that he has no actual opposition and is really just facing himself and his failures with himself and with Watson; I think they may have been trying to convey that but it seems like it got drowned out amongst all the other things they were throwing into the mix, it's been really annoying to have the villain constantly thrown in like an afterthought when as you say, a strong villain would add some backbone to the whole thing and imo would make all the character development proceed more effortlessly and attractively

John and Watson are gunna dick each other down. Mark my words.

how did they get away with this?

100% agree to be honest

How did Mary miss the blindingly obvious way in which Sherlock was tracking her?

Why is Mary a force ghost?

Why didn't they just arrest the secretary first and then make fun of her?

How did Eurus know which therapist John would pick, week in advance? How did Sherlock know this too, and know exactly when he'd arrive? How did Culverton know?

How did Sherlock know that Molly was to arrive immediately after John, all while knowing when John would arrive?

How did Sherlock know that John would bring the deus ex machina cane and not forget it or just leave flowers?

How did Sherlock know that there would be spec ops lead by Mycroft in his room while Mrs. Hudson is there who could point out exactly where the "miss me" disc was (how did she know where it is?) and that John would watch, extrapolate the necessary information, realise Sherlock is in immediate danger and drive to save him seconds from his death... 3 weeks in advance?

How did Eurus know all of the above?

How did Sherlock know where all the cameras in London are to trace a perfect path to hide from his big bro?

Is Eurus a trap?

episode 1 of this season was a fucking cringefest, the second episode was barely better by not being as cringy.The only way they can manage to keep sherlock interesting is by bosting his logical reasoning to the point of omnipotent.

>How did Mary miss the blindingly obvious way in which Sherlock was tracking her?

She wasn't looking for it.

>Why is Mary a force ghost?

Because Moriarty is.

>Why didn't they just arrest the secretary first and then make fun of her?

Well I supposed if they had read the script about the gun. Also Lestrade didn't actually know she was the culprit (or dangerous), they were just called there on Sherlock's tip, who was boasting in usual fashion.

>How did Eurus/Sherlock/Culverton know which therapist John would pick, week in advance?

Heroins a hell of a drug. I'm not entirely clear if Culverton knew, I believe he was being played by Eurus who was helping Sherlock...maybe. I don't know.

>How did Sherlock know that Molly was to arrive immediately after John, all while knowing when John would arrive?

Heroin.

>How did Sherlock know that John would bring the deus ex machina cane and not forget it or just leave flowers?

He brought the cane for Sherlock.

>How did Sherlock know that there would be spec ops lead by Mycroft in his room while Mrs. Hudson is there who could point out exactly where the "miss me" disc was (how did she know where it is?) and that John would watch, extrapolate the necessary information, realise Sherlock is in immediate danger and drive to save him seconds from his death... 3 weeks in advance?

Remember kids, don't use used needles. If you're gonna do drugs, do it safely and be sanitary.

>How did Eurus know all of the above?

Weed is smalltime.

>How did Sherlock know where all the cameras in London are to trace a perfect path to hide from his big bro?

He wasn't hiding.

>Is Eurus a trap?

Yes, she (he) is actually Moriarty (Female)

>How did Sherlock know that there would be spec ops lead by Mycroft in his room while Mrs. Hudson is there who could point out exactly where the "miss me" disc was (how did she know where it is?) and that John would watch, extrapolate the necessary information, realise Sherlock is in immediate danger and drive to save him seconds from his death... 3 weeks in advance?

He didn't. That was directly addressed by John. Sherlock should have failed because if it wasn't for Mary he wouldn't have come to save Sherlock. Sherlock was just counting on John saving him because he's the idealised John that Sherlock and Mary saw him as.

>tfw Moffat has you questioning your suicide

I wasn't ready for that scene.

Right and yet everything works out perfectly to plan, regardless

I masturbated while Sherlock was being murdered but Watson burst in and spoiled my orgasm

Why are people losing their shit over Eurus? Absolutely everything about her sounds like it was taken right out of a Tumblr-level fan fiction. "Sherlock Holmes has a secret evil sister" is pathetic and the worst thing I've ever heard, her name just screams self insert and heterochromia? Seriously? The most cliche special snowflake treat that ever existed. They better find a way to make her work because as of now she's just some Tumblrina's OC come to life.

Also, reminder this needs to happen next episode: youtu.be/bqsYihukI7I

Did you miss the part where Sherlock is suicidal, crazy and on a heavy mixture of who the fuck knows what the entire episode?

>>>Kill me

>I'm personally mostly satisfied with what they have done with the overall story of Sherlock's character

This is really the only reason I'm staying with the show tbqh. It's just a fucking shame that it's far overshadowed by the meandering plot everywhere else.

>And this could have even become a good thing, like having Holmes eventually realize that he has no actual opposition and is really just facing himself and his failures

That's always the vibe I got from OG Holmes, with the exception of Moriarty. The Moriarty arc in this show was goat, but it came too early. They should've either ended it there or kept him as a final boss that Sherlock wouldn't have been able to beat without going through all the growth that he has.

You don't kill the main villain before your characters are properly developed tbqh

>How did Mary miss the blindingly obvious way in which Sherlock was tracking her?

bad writing

>Why is Mary a force ghost?

To give us a window into John's thoughts. The show is about Sherlock and John's friendship, the writers have stated ths several times so this isn't an odd choice for them to make. She isn't a ghost, she is John's inner thoughts.

>Why didn't they just arrest the secretary first and then make fun of her?

probably bad writing

>How did Eurus know which therapist John would pick, week in advance? How did Sherlock know this too, and know exactly when he'd arrive? How did Culverton know?

Culverton didn't know, he only gave the message to Eurus because he has a confession fetish. I have no idea why specifically Eurus got the note, I assume this will be explained soon.

I don't know how Eurus knew but by the ways her brothers are written we could assume she also has some deduction super powers. They haven't revealed enough about her yet to explain this, but I imagine they plan to, so I hesitate to say 'bad writing'.

They explained how Sherlock knew; John needed a therapist close by and within a certain time frame (lunchtime on weekdays because he spends the weekend with his babby).

Sherlock may have also known this due to the fact that he placed a recording device in John's cane and has been listening to John's conversations with "Mary", although the writers probably weren't intending for that to be the reason and it will probably go unexplained and I will put it down to bad writing.

>How did Sherlock know that Molly was to arrive immediately after John, all while knowing when John would arrive?

dumb gag writing but also to show that Sherlock understands how John thinks

>How did Sherlock know that John would bring the deus ex machina cane and not forget it or just leave flowers?

It was meant to show yet again that Sherlock is really attuned to John's thought process, but it was dumb.

>How did Sherlock know that there would be spec ops lead by Mycroft in his room while Mrs. Hudson is there who could point out exactly where the "miss me" disc was (how did she know where it is?) and that John would watch, extrapolate the necessary information, realise Sherlock is in immediate danger and drive to save him seconds from his death... 3 weeks in advance?

Sherlock didn't know this. He legitimately thought John was going to figure out he was in trouble and come save him like in the very first episode. When he's saying "I don't want to die", he really means it, and is gradually being overtaken with fear as he realizes his fuckup with John may have been worse than he thought and John probably isn't going to come save him and he will actually die.

This is why he recites that "once more unto the breach" stuff too, he is legit very afraid of doing this plan because it's pretty crazy and he is unsure if John will really come save him.

>How did Eurus know all of the above?

We don't know yet. She may have even been hiding among Mycroft's secret agent peeps and overheard some of the convo about the secret sibling, they kind of suggest this and there was a female agent there. For now I'm gonna say bad writing.

>How did Sherlock know where all the cameras in London are to trace a perfect path to hide from his big bro?

For lulz

>Is Eurus a trap?

I doubt it but maybe.

>perfectly to plan

But it didn't. The plan failed. That's how fucked up Sherlock was. He just got lucky that it worked out anyway.

Also, for all the therapist stuff: They explained it to you.


>mfw people can't keep up with the Sherlock episode where literally everything is explained in detail

>You don't kill the main villain before your characters are properly developed tbqh
>mfw they wasted Sebastian Moran

GATISS WHY

Daily reminder that the 4th AGRA agent who was being tortured off-screen is returning for the finale.

Also Mary faked her death.

Prepare yer butts, we're going full blown Dr. Who.

Why the fuck do people think she's got heterochromia? She just took out one of her contact lenses to show that she was wearing them to alter her eye-colour from when she was disguised as the mistress.

>Also, reminder this needs to happen next episode: youtu.be/bqsYihukI7I

I really thought Mary was going to turn out to be the actual Moran. I know they showed Moran but as far as what function the character would play I was thinking it was gonna be Mary

>Prepare yer butts, we're going full blown Dr. Who

yfw they unironically do a crossover and use time shit to justify Moriarty being brought back

So, Guy Ritchie Sherlock 3 when?

Surely Culverton didn't give Eurus the paper. That doesn't even make sense with the story Sherlock deduced of the paper. Eurus fabricated the paper, giving it all those facets that she knew would stoke Sherlock's ego to deduce, as well as convince him it's real. She just found out about Culverton because he's as subtle as Jimmy Saville was and made up a story to make Sherlock investigate. The real mystery is how Sherlock hasn't focused on him before.

glad they finally killed her off, honestly who thought that was a good idea?

also am i the only one who thought this was zooey when she first showed up?

>John got shot in the fucking face

So hot

>have to keep watching this shit because my friend would be heartbroken if I admitted I hate it and dropped it

The first four episodes are great but I've been suffering ever since

>The real mystery is how Sherlock hasn't focused on him before.

Tbf it's been (poorly) shown that as autistic Sherlock is once he's on a case, he's shit-tier at seeking them out.

He relies on Watson, Lestrade, tips, or things that directly threaten him to git gud

>it will never be revealed that this guy was just one of moriarity's patsy underling fall guys

Why did Sherlock stop using informants/homeless people and can now solve everything on his own?

They'd have to pull some magic out of their ass to replace his character at this point. I'd be afraid as an actor to try and do that.

>why

>tumblr
kys

>type laughing moffat gif
>not autistic enough to change filename

S-sorry

to be fair sherlock is a tumblr show

How can anyone like this interpretation of Moriarty? He was an overacting screaming queen. Just utterly disappointing.

>implying it always wasn't

It just had enough redeeming qualities to overlook it

Maybe THE tumblr show in all honesty.

Because it's different. Seeing the same kind of Moriarty over and over again in every adaptation gets boring.

The actor was great, but the influence of drastically overdid it. What saved it was that he had a goat finale before he became too obnoxious.

>tfw assumed that nuMoriarty was being an obnoxious faggot just to throw off Sherlock

what scene?

Doctor Who Season 6 and 7.

Dubs.
And the "ME" episodes of Season 9.
Didn't actually go anywhere.

Episode S4E2 (the most recent one), I can't remember the exact time but it was fairly early. During his outing with Faith Smith Eurus when he throws her gun into the water because he deduced that she intends to commit suicide and he goes on a monologue about life and suicide.

This episode really hit harder than any before. I wasn't a fan of how rushed Mary's backstory was, but I didn't mind her character or the premise of the backstory. In fact, I enjoyed her character and writing. Shame to see her go, but the way its affecting Watson and Holmes is beautiful.

>SHERLOCK: (Speaking to Faith/Himself) “Taking your own life.” Interesting expression. Taking it from who? Oh, once it’s over, it’s not you who’ll miss it. Your own death is something that happens to everybody else. Your life is not your own.

>SHERLOCK: (to Watson) In saving my life, she (Mary) conferred a value on it. It is a currency I do not know how to spend.

>cocky but secretly lonely and vulnerable genius trope
Literally the worst thing ever spawned in the name of entertainment, and cuminthatch is the worst offender. This show is complete drivel.

It was a surprisingly poignant episode, especially after the dumpster fire that was the first one.

>Holmes is a genius

You ever read a book in your life?

>he hasn't seen the show
It's national treasure tier savant ass-grabbing

>He was an overacting screaming queen

Kind of the point really. He represents Sherlock's fears of acknowledging his emotions and desires.

John/Sherlock full blown gay romantic love INCOMING

>tfw ex-gf got mad af when I said Sherlock and Watson being gay would cheapen their whole friendship beyond repair

>tfw relationships women will never understand

Way better than the first episode

Fuck Mary

She just wanted to see hardcore anal penetration between two men

Personally I am pretty excited for a gay Holmes/Watson story. Half the adaptations that get made explore all kinds of different what-if scenarios, including "what if Holmes loved Irene Adler", so I'm glad there's finally gonna be a big production of "what if Holmes and Watson loved eachother romantically" that isn't being done in a comedic way (or a tragic one-sided way like in Billy Wilder's adaptation) but instead seriously exploring that question.

I don't really like being told the exact same stories over and over again. When I want classic Holmes, I read some canon or I watch the Jeremy Brett series. I don't think people going different directions in adaptations with the Holmes/Watson relationship is 'cheap', it's interesting. Doing it just to be shocking, comedic, political, or erotic might get me to say that it's cheap, but doing it because it's a genuine question that people want to explore in depth (among many questions) is what being into Holmes is all about, for me.

I like how the previews they immediately played cleared up the cliffhanger for you, lest you think he was actually dead, even just for fun.

Awesome show, great job!

Just like the Cybermen reveal in Doctor Who.
The whole damn episode was about the tanks and what was inside- dead people/ cybermen and it was shown a week before.

Why.

>Personally I am pretty excited for a gay Holmes/Watson story.

It would serve literally no purpose and only detract from what their friendship has been established on in the show.

Book Holmes I can see being a tsundere sub to Watson as he loves no-one but values loyalty and acceptance based on his view that he sees himself as ultimately a fuckup.

This adaption touches on those themes, but this Sherlock implicitly fell for Irene, which the original Sherlock never did.

The relationship between Watson and Sherlock is inverted from the original pair.

The books were about Watson (your average person expy) learning from Sherlock.

This show is presently about (it's the only coherent theme left) someone who always feels he's seen the results of the worst in people and treats them accordingly learning from someone who has actually experienced the worst of people (through war) yet sees people as the best of themselves.

Sherlock becoming more normie by Watson's influence while Watson rejects Sherlock's detatchment is the central theme of this show, (at least until he cheated on muh Mary.)

I can see some of what you're saying but I disgree with alot of it too. I have made alot of tl;dr posts in another thread about how I think a romantic Holmes/Watson story bears on this BBC adaptation and is being protrayed; personally I think its the creators' intention:

the other ones
So I'm not just randomly rooting for this one to be gay because it's ongoing and popular, it's because I think that's actually what they are doing. I wouldnt be laying this expectation on another adaptation. I just really think that's the actual goal with this one, which is why I find it exciting. I wouldnt find it exciting if it was being thrown in last minute for no reason, out of nowhere.

Those are damn good observations, especially the Asian one (though I'd disagree on the implications.)

You have to remember that Moffat & co have whether by design or accident into having the tumblr audience as their primary demographic.

Back in the day, theories abounded that Moriarty would profess a desire for Sherlock's BIG BRITISH COCK, yet it never in any way came to pass.

Moffat & crew are honestly probably just throwing in b8 so tumblr will talk about their show.

If they backtrack now there's literally no point in Sherlock falling for Irene or Mary and Watson's affair being such critical plot points.

It would also ruin the setup that Sherlock has been the only person that's been completely honest with Watson, even if that entails treating him like a damp rag with the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk.

The last two seasons have been all about Sherlock realizing that Watson is his bro, and getting in touch with that humanity.

Full-autist Sherlock died with Moriarty.

>This show is presently about (it's the only coherent theme left) someone who always feels he's seen the results of the worst in people and treats them accordingly learning from someone who has actually experienced the worst of people (through war) yet sees people as the best of themselves.

This is very interesting though. I'm not trying to ""disagree"" with you to be a dick at all, alot of what you said is a pretty interesting interpretation but I am pretty stuck in my own interpretation, too

I want to know how you think Sherlock fell for Irene, because I really don't see it, I still feel they were going book angle with her just being someone Sherlock respects, although I know there's probably reasoning against that.

>tfw really liked Jared Harris as Moriarty, even though RDJ wasn't a particularly good Sherlock
>He'll probably never reprise the role

manlet and tumblr: the series

>I'm not trying to ""disagree"" with you to be a dick at all

Disagree all you want. The writers (whether it be through intention or just shitty writing) have as yet left things wide open, and I haven't watched the first three seasons since 2014.

>I want to know how you think Sherlock fell for Irene, because I really don't see it

I say it because Sherlock as shown in this series (at least in the first two seasons) is portrayed as being fairly consistent in his deductions and attitude. Even when he's being strangled or threatened, he doesn't lose his cool, he just gets irritated, yet when Irene is on the line, he chimps out and for lack of a better phrase, goes super-saiyan.

Irene and Watson both get to him, as in Ep 1 he has no qualms of going full an hero if it means he'll be proven right, yet in the last episode (which coincidentally featured Irene) he is genuinely scared when he says he doesn't want to die.

>cutting an interrogation short when his confession is all you fucking have, and giving him time to sit and think that maybe confessing isn't the best course of action

THE INTERROGATION DOES NOT STOP UNTIL ITS OVER YOU DUMB FUCK

Based

Interesting. I haven't really built up any kind of case against Sherlock falling for Irene because I honestly never considered her as an option. Opposite to that I've been on watch for gay shit ever since ep 1 where Sherlock said girlfriends "weren't really his area" and yet let boyfriends be open-ended, merely saying he "knows its fine" (and then watson licking his lips...wat) (Also: Sherlock had a fake gf for a while and she says "I wish you weren't...*John walks into the shot* ...Whatever you are" "Just once would have been nice" "I know what kind of man you are" etc. these aren't all solid evidence but I'm hoping you can see how I reached this interpretation of things).

Anyway...The writers have made it clear a few times that they envision Sherlock as being filled with emotional and sexual desire, but suppressing it. I kind of view Irene as being Sherlock's idea of his own self who is sexually open and who allows herself to feel sentimentality (which is her downfall when he discovers her password and states something about sentiment being the only thing that led her to fuck up and lose the game), which he finds both interesting and intimidating. Again, this isn't any kind of argument for or against, I just have few thoughts formulated about her because I was viewing her similarly to how I view the canon version of Irene.

Something interesting they do is have him still call her "The Woman", but in this case that is her actual professional name, instead of a name Sherlock thought of for her, so it's kind of the opposite of canon in that regard. I think at some point in that ep they have Irene switch from calling him Sherlock to calling him Mr. Holmes, but I haven't seen that one since it came out so I would really have to go back and check this.

Anyway, the only thing I really might assert for any argument against Sherlock falling for someone other than John is...Where would that leave John? Dude would have a bad end.