So I've listened to both these albums today, the first because Henry Rollins said it was his favorite album of all time and I kind of like the dude and I've also seen tons of people wearing it on t-shirts like it was some kinda cult classic thing so I thought I'd give it a go.
Well. The lyrics are exceptional. But nothing else is. There is some synth swells with reverb in the background "subtly" (if you have no ears), and in one song the vocals are pitch delayed and pitch shifted. ...Was that all it took to get people to say "wow these guys have some interesting production value going on"? Beyond the lyrics, the rhythm and textures and melody and harmony are rather generic. There's not that much happening. I get that it's a dark-ish album or something like this, rather subdued intensity, but man, it didn't do the trick for me at all. I was bored. Just wanted it to be over. If you ask me, music ought to stand on its own beyond lyrics. If the lyrics carry the music, the music isn't good. The lyrics are there to add to the sound, not vice versa. This album is not a "masterpiece" by any means as many tout it to be.
Which brings me to Trout Mask Replica.
Mostly I found it amusing. The vocals were intentionally ridiculous a lot of the time. Like EEELLLLAAA GARRUUUUU. Song is amusing, made me smile. Also the two or three bits where its just the Captain singing in some old-timey way his own poetry was captivating. But all this mess of a-tonal shoenbergian inharmonic stuff where the ryhthms just shift out of nowhere and there is no progressive integrity to any of it, as if its trying to be the finnegans wake of music, ..I didn't dig very much. I can dig free jazz too, but this stuff wasn't engaging, it reeked of some kind of misguided sense aesthetic. It seemed sincere in its own way, but it seemed too bent on being "odd for the sake of it". Dada-istic. "Squid in a polyethalyne bag eating dough, Get Me?"
No, I don't fucking get you. That's an amusing image, but I don't.
Everyone needs to re-evaluate everything
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Trout mask replica is something you have to listen to a lot in order to get. Its not something you can have on in the background. Try paying closer attention to the instrumentals next listen. Once you get it, you realise that none of it is atonal or arhythmic or anything, and the songs actually start to sound like blues songs, just a bit abrasive. It seems like a dadaist joke at first, but upon further listens, you realise its legit music.
I got that sense from a few of the songs, genuinely dug them, but mostly it did seem like a dada-istic joke.
if you thought joy division was boring, try new order. literally the same band, minus ian curtis, listen to Movement first
or listen to closer by joy division
honsestly joy division took a few listens before it clicked for me
I honestly just don't get tmr like everybody else on this board seems to, to me it just sounds like a lot of nonsense with occasionally half-cohesive, half-baked melodies, and an honestly annoying voice. It's just not that listenable imo.
yeah. use those songs as an excuse to go back. also, maybe listen to the songs individually for a while, because the album can be pretty grating and tiring to get through when you're still pretty new to it.
>Was that all it took to get people to say "wow these guys have some interesting production value going on"? Beyond the lyrics, the rhythm and textures and melody and harmony are rather generic. There's not that much happening. I get that it's a dark-ish album or something like this, rather subdued intensity, but man, it didn't do the trick for me at all. I was bored.
Joy Division is a seminal "post-punk" band. That means that they are expanding on the musical ideas of punk music and transforming it into something completely different. Taking the philosophy and attitude of punk rock, but removing the fast-paced, rock and roll inspired aspects and replacing it with jazz, world, and electronic music. You seemed to be impressed by the lyricism of the album above all else, but creative lyricism is a huge aspect in punk music, which imposes a lot of satire, allusion, and creative imagery. This album took those aspects and transformed it into something understandable, but fresh. I take it from what you've written that you haven't given much punk music a try. When you take this album in context with the rest of the punk world at the time, you get a very clear idea of how revolutionary this sound was.
>It seemed sincere in its own way, but it seemed too bent on being "odd for the sake of it". Dada-istic. "Squid in a polyethalyne bag eating dough, Get Me?"
It is literally extremely meticulously crafted. Every instrument is playing a different, complicated melody that shifts every few bars. Captain Beefheart wasn't trying to be real he was trying to be entertaining; captivating. When you listen to Frownland, listen to just one instrument the whole time. Then, listen again, focusing on a different instrument. Do this until you get a clear idea of how each instrument progresses in the song, and you will start to appreciate the extreme art of it. I'm not saying it's the greatest album of all time. I don't even think it's that GOOD. But you can not deny the effort.
Listen to the instruments on TMR isolated
Jesus Christ you're a contrarian that thinks he's a patrician, please fuck off back to wherever you came from
came here to say this with less buzzwords. you obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about, OP, though that should be apparent based on you fucking just now listening to Joy Division. Your analysis is elementary and is done with a complete lack of context, though you did catch that the one of the key parts to Unknown Pleasures is it's production.
another thing that makes the unknown pleasures production so cool is that they used a retro (but at the time cutting edge) delay filter to modulate all the drums. it's subtle but there is a fast, wobbly delay after every drum hit. that's part of what makes the production so unique
also you're a pleb for not considering the historical context of the albums. part of the reason why people think unknown pleasures is so amazing is because it was totally visionary at the time. listen to any other punk/rock from 79 and show me something that matches its moodiness, its bleakness, it's WEIRD production, and its creativity within the context of punk. there was nothing else like it. sure it sounds generic now, but thats only because practically every rock band to follow them were influenced by them
>No, I don't fucking get you.
lol
>click on this thread expecting to see unknown pleasures get shat on by more pseuds like op
>end up watching op get btfo for being a pleb
bump
>dada-istic
>he doesn’t like unknown pleasures
Me too. I prefer “substance”
>Me too. I prefer “substance”
What’s your favourite Beatles album, Best Of?
>But all this mess of a-tonal shoenbergian inharmonic stuff
You undestand neither Schönberg nor Beefheart.
Unknown Pleasures is the most overrated album perhaps of all time. I understand your feelings about that.
TMR is fun though. It's not atonal, sometimes it's polytonal (the two guitars play in different keys) but even then it's the same two or three keys the entire album's in. It's from a melodic/harmonic perspective pretty easy to digest as it's simple blues stuff in the end. What makes it all fascinating is how it's all arranged (it was arranged by the drummer.) Very interesting rhythmic interplay here.