Genuine question, is there a link between women liking obscure music and being expressive?

I may be wrong but it always seems to be that girls who like less mainstream music always dress very vividly and purposefully unique while guys who like the same music don't. What do you guys think?

Because they think they're special for liking weird sounds. While us losers know that we're not special and that taste is completely subjective. Also women are memes.

I think that's entirely down to conventional western gender roles and has little to do with music. For the most part in all walks of life men are encouraged to be emotionally reserved and generally be just like all the other men while women are expected to dress fashionably and distinguish themselves in how they look.

>encouraged to be emotionally reserved
men just seem to be that way. i dont think its a social construct you marxist faggot. try biology. inb4 outliers

Like this is true but also I've seen so many dudes dress punk because they listen to punk music.

This phenomenon doesnt arise from society, society arises from it

It is though, society literally encourages men to try and suppress their feelings as much as possible. Do you not realize where you are? Sup Forums is literally a site populated by extremely emotional men that are only able to be open about themselves with anonymous internet stranges.

girls do everything for social and exhibitionist reasons. if they find something they think is cool they want to everyone to know about it and be impressed and wear their subjective enjoyment of Joy Division like a merit badge that will score them hip points and get them more instagram likes

do you have a job and live in the real world? my manager, just the other day, opened up to me about extreme personal situations he is enduring with family right now. throughout my life, myself and other men, have emotionally opened up with each other. no i never do that kindof shit in public, because i feel like its not "tactful", id rather express myself with friends and family in private. you may not have had these experiences. im gonna bet that im older than you and have more life experience. i think any social pressures are run off from biological programming. when i was in rehab dudes would be breaking down all the time, but that might be a special circumstance

Not that guy, but i think we tend to use social constructs to reinforce some of our biological tendencies

I mean, rape was common and natural back when we were just pack animals. We certainly don't want to keep that part of ourselves. And yet we live in a society that actively encourages men to be sexually aggressive and women to remain passive.

Why is the belief that everything is a social construct becoming so common?

Too many 'spook' memes

what are spook memes?

men will always have the physical upper hand and you have a point about our time spent as pack animals. but female promiscuity is encouraged in this society as well. these days apps like tinder are pushing for mixed relationships. society is going to be pushing all sorts of shit in every direction and some ideas and concepts will hold the spotlight longer than others. im trying to half agree and half disagree with you. id like to look at all this as a non- black and white issue. reality is loaded with nuance if you wanna really get to the meat and potatoes of it all

>has barely lurked at all

Yes

>i think any social pressures are run off from biological programming.
I think it's silly to think that suppressing ones own emotions is natural when that seems absurd even in theory. Your emotions are the window into your most natural impulses and instincts and do anything other than the immediately emotionally compelling response would probably be a socially learned behaviour.

In fact part of the reason I think where we're at now as a society strongly stifles men's emotions is because men are naturally extremely violent while women aren't and that's very disruptive to industrialized civilized society. When the main pre-programmed male response to an emotionally stressful situation is to attack something it's easy to see how a society would learn to try and discourage this behaviour. In that way men are the more emotional sex.

men are the sexually aggresive ones in every society though, it isn’t just “our society”

I'm pretty sure the rape thing being common is a big misconception. Women pretty much always had protectors and there wasn't a lot of contact with females that males didn't know. Humans never actually had an alpha to each community and I don't know where people get that from.

>Your emotions are the window into your most natural impulses and instincts and do anything other than the immediately emotionally compelling response would probably be a socially learned behaviour

i think doing something other than your immediate first response emotionally is an evolutionary enhancement. sometimes my first emotional response is to blown my own brains out. under that theory i dont think its absurd or silly for me to suppress that emotion.

your whole second paragraph seems to support what i wrote above. we socially need to suppress male emotions. but it is so simple. the current state of society cant be diagnosed as having come from male issues alone. a lot of shit happens every day and through out history that influences our trajectory and it is never the fault of one group like males. it isnt females fault. its not the jews fault.

look at some rape stats and tell me which race does it more.

this became a Sup Forums thread

>sometimes my first emotional response is to blown my own brains out.
Only here's the thing, wild animals very rarely commit suicide and when they do it's almost inevitably as an effort to save their young or an accident. Scientists are still inconclusive as to whether animals even can choose to commit suicide. It's entirely possible that this is the real learned behaviour and in the wild you wouldn't have that impulse, instead your first instinct would be to kill somebody else.

>and it is never the fault of one group like males. it isnt females fault. its not the jews fault.
I'm not saying it's anybody's fault. I'm saying the way we as a society handle certain things is damaging and to a certain extent we're all complicit in this. If we all just approached everybody else as open-minded, non-judgemental people a lot of social problems could probably be avoided but it's not that easy.

>Theory where I kinda agree with OP
I think that females are more likely to listen to the music that fits their own life situations. Someone in another topic talked about girls that are into "patrician" music are borderline/or drug addicts or something. Well, you got a band like say...The Velvet Underground that's just talking sex and drugs all the time, of course a female fan would probably approach that music with a sense of reliability. Guys more often just look at music or any other art based hobby as something to just peruse and enjoy the drama from, they may not necessarily relate on any aesthetic+personal level. In a way, if you think of it, that kinda makes females in general be more sincere of fans, but perhaps that also stops them from exploring as much of a variety of music as we do.

>More probable
Females are more populated in other hobbies like fashion which don't have anywhere near as many males into them the same way other things have far more males than females into that hobby. Fashion itself is a female dominated hobby so it's more likely that they'll dress more vividly while males often disregard fashion as something more frivolous than artistic. This also helps explain why girls that are into a male dominated hobby like the kind of music (Sup Forumscore, RYM top 100, etc.) that's popular among Western "music fans" also tend to be borderline or addicts or w/e because it's such a niche thing that only the most niche, outcast-esque women would think of having it as a hobby (outcasts are more likely to explore newer things as sorta an escape from the normal that shuns them.)

>social problems could probably be avoided but it's not that easy
do you think the best way to do this would be through media dissemination like PSA's? and or art?

everything else you said really got my noggin joggin. wish i didnt have to go to work. you are good people user

Thanks, user.

I think over time society has a way of sorting itself out and in a manner of speaking evolving. Given enough time I think people will slowly change their ways and adapt to what works and the people who don't will struggle. In the meantime the best we can do is be conscious of how we live our own lives and how we behave with other people, I'd recommend to anyone that they read The Brother's Karamazov and try to apply what they learn in it because really Dostoyevsky had it figured out.

animals also eat their own shit, fuck corpses as a biological norm, and eat the children of any rival alpha males after killing them and confiscating their mates to make said children whenever the opportunity presents itself

Thanks for actually talking about my question guys, Jesus.

I'm not saying what's natural is good. I'm saying our method of overcoming what's natural is extremely hamfisted and doesn't really work.

I don't think you get psychology very well. There are perfectly natural and genetic influences that drive male and female behavior. You're a fool to disagree with that and it makes me wonder if you're actually a Marxist with this social engineered idea.

Men are not naturally violent. If you pick a random man and woman from a crowd there's a 40% chance the woman will be more aggressive. Women make up the middle and average basically, while the most aggressive people are all men. There's a lot of factors as to why that is and it's absolutely not "we as a society construct people this way and if we all just treat each other the same the world would be diasys and rainbows!"

It's such a simplistic view of the world man c'mon. It's an outright attack on critical thinking to say you shouldn't repress the first and instinctual reaction you have to any given situation.

I think your premise is a bit flawed because it can be stated across the board that people with a deeper understanding of any art tend to be more creative and expressive, regardless of gender.

Also what is it with the fools on this board thinking women don't like good music, or worse, the fools who think they can't find women who enjoy music in the same way, but can't acknowledge that maybe they're just not that attractive.

>we live in a society that actively encourages men to be sexually aggressive and women to remain passive

the literal opposite of this is true, though. basically women are pressured into subconsciously luring men into pursuing the stick-em-with-a-baby-and-run mating strategy and men are socially penalized for falling for it.

>If you pick a random man and woman from a crowd there's a 40% chance the woman will be more aggressive
I hope you understand that means that statistically men are more predisposed to violence and that of two given people of different genders it is more likely than not that the man is going to be the more violent one.

I'm not saying you should just immediately yield to whatever is your first instinct. I'm saying as men we should be more open about our feelings and seek to empower other men to be open about their feelings to because just silencing that kind of thing altogether is destructive in its own way.

You should leave /r9k/ and try the real world sometime.

please tell me how I'm wrong

Being a single mother isn't an enticing opportunity women are actively seeking out. It sucks and it's something all normal young women are trying to avoid at all costs.

Birth control has all but eliminated that fear, which is the biggest reason the tables have been flipped on this point. It being such a recent thing, I think women are being sold this idea that the way to maximize sexual pleasure during ones lifetime is through the maximum number of throwaway partners largely out of novelty, but the truth is we have no idea how to properly conduct ourselves in a sexual landscape in which the risk of reproduction is all but gone and I'd argue that it's doing women more harm than good

I agree, I think our society strongly encourages a culture of sexual promiscuity that's deeply damaging for everybody involved where it's a race to the bottom for who can care the least. But I don't think women are removed from the risk at all, in fact I'd still say they're the ones most damaged by it.

But I don't think women are removed from that risk at all. A lot of women don't have birth control but still have sexual lives that puts them greatly at risk because having a child you're not prepared for can and most likely will irreparably ruin your life. Not to mention the irony of our over-sexed society is that women are penalized for participating in it while men aren't, slut shaming is a real thing that happens. However men are penalized for not participating in it, which is why I think the problems here of Sup Forums dudes who struggle with women are deeply intertwined with the struggles of tumblr girls who complain about slut shaming.