DC has the tools to beat Marvel easily yet they are failing. How do we fix them?

DC has the tools to beat Marvel easily yet they are failing. How do we fix them?

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They aren't broken

Can't fix this

holy shit Reddit memes are terrible

What's the issue here?

Step 1: Dump Snyder and Goyer
Step 2: Hire whoever writes the DC related live-action shows.
Step 3: Dump the DCEU and reboot the cinematic universe 2-3 years later.
Step 4: Come up with a plan that will give us 2-3 films over a decade long stretch of time.

That's all DC needs to do, hire writers who are well liked, dump the current cinematic universe, come up with a reboot that will give us movies over the course of a decade, and for goodness sake, fix the goddamned editing.

Shows like Batman TAS, Young Justice, and the original Teen Titans cartoon shows that DC has it in them to create well made story arcs, they just need to learn to take their time and stop trying to compete with Marvel.

They just need to dumb down their stuff to less than braindead level and put more quips.

Please! If anything, DC needs to hire writers who actually passed a creative writing course.

This. DC is defeating itself because they believe even though they have no success they can compete with Marvel because of MUH BATS AND SUPES. They were too full of themselves and now honestly have fucked their universe beyond repeair judging from the WW insider and the FLASH script DC is up for a few other fuck ups as well they need to take a few steps back. Delay all their pictures and get a solid game plan before they move on with anything. Honestly the DCEU is salvageable ATM but that all depends on JL and WW and judging from the trailers.

kill yourself

As dumb as it sounds another reboot might honestly be necessary at this point.
On top of what this anons says , they also fucked up Joker, who's meant to be a big draw. They fucked him up from the very first reveal and it didn't get any better.

>DC
>already did Batman vs. Superman
>already did death of superman
>in one movie
>was still shit

I really don't think you can fix it. I doubt there will ever be a Robin in any standalone Batman movies because Batman is already old as shit. There COULD be a Nightwing but without showing Dick's entire character arc and his transition from Robin to Nightwing it will be pretty lame. They also can't do Batman vs Superman again because it's already been done and Superman's "death" was pretty bad because not only did the audience not have any real attachment to the character because he was only in one movie prior to his death, everyone already knows he's coming back AND it's in the very next movie.

No, it's not MY fault that you like schlock that pretends to be deeper than it actually is. My suggestion to you would be to watch decent movies, rather than try to excuse shitty ones just because they make you feel smart for once in your life.

They already killed off Robin. In fact, Robin's death is why Batman is so crazy in BvS and why Joker wears a grill in Suicide Squad.

Don't ask me why such an important detail in the overaching DCEU plot got relegated to one line of dialogue and a director interview but that's apparently how DC works nowadays.

Spend 15 minutes on bullshit that adds nothing and 15 seconds on bullshit that adds something.

>In fact, Robin's death is why Batman is so crazy in BvS and why Joker wears a grill in Suicide Squad.
>Don't ask me why such an important detail in the overaching DCEU plot got relegated to one line of dialogue and a director interview
Are they even fucking trying anymore?

Yea I know they killed off Robin but what I'm saying is that if it was Jason Todd then you could still have Dick Grayson but by now he'd be Nightwing. IF they decided to have introduce Nightwing in a Batman movie it would be kind of lame without showing his entire character arc.

Why they keep giving Snyder work is beyond me.

He's proven time and time again he can't not be Snyder, he's just a hack hundred million dollar budgets.

stop telling the batman origin story

Lex Luthor was literally giving monologues you'd expect from a 14 year old armed with Wikipedia who's rebelling against going to sunday school.

You expect anyone to defend that cringy shit? He wasn't an ancillary character, he was meant to be the mastermind behind the whole thing and came off like a kid playing checkers against characters who are meant to be chess masters. It's embarrassing.

Stop pretending that movies about guys that dress like animals and in big blue leotards are worth taking seriously.

>What's the issue here?

They forced a retarded DBZ fight at the end of the movie so Wonder Woman could do something, they ruined Doomsday turning him into a rejected LoTR freak and also ruined Death of Superman with the stupid "Lois Lane must go back to retrieve the Spear of Longinus and Superman must sacrifice himself because reasons" writing when they could have give it to Wonder Woman to finish off Doomsday, the sacrifice at the end feels so forced to shock the movie goers with a "plot-twist".

>"zomg Superman died he is totally not coming back the next movie"

The only reason Lex even won was because Snyder made everyone else retarded. Superman could've easily found his own damn mother in the time it took Lex to figure out what happened and he wouldn't even have been able to defend himself because he let Batman steal the krptonite.

>Step 2: Hire whoever writes the DC related live-action shows.

This would result in worse movies. I mean, it would basically be the Felicity Cinematic Universe.

Wonder Woman was barely holding Doomsday.

Fine, then hire someone else on DC's payroll, the point is to hire writers who know how to construct a plot over a long period of time without getting distracted by either WB's meddling or the MCU's success.

It would help.

They're against hiring people who wrote BTAS and comic book writers. They basically said "those people don't know how to write movies, because they're comic guys." something like that. Kevin Smith told them to do this when they were making Superman Lives, and they responded with some shit like that. You're never going to get a DC film written by people who understand the characters. Just idiots like Goyer who think they do.

Don't change anything.

True fans of film realize the great quality of the DCEU and it's only getting better.

no snyder no watch.

Everything Batman in Batman v. Superman was great, when I watched it I was thinking myself "there is a pretty good Batman movie hidden in this mess of a movie".

They should have given a Batman trilogy to Snyder since it fits his style better than Superman and let somebody else do Superman and the Justice League.

youtube.com/watch?v=MyVPh3Usrho

Aren't their most popular animated films penned by comic writers though?

No user, all memes are terrible.

>No true Scotsman: the post
The "true fans" are the ones killing the franchise, not saving it.

DC character are always big shit and kinda bland. Like a fuck ton a character could destroy the planet easily.

Marvels character tend to be more down to earth and easy to write for.

Not sure. But most likely

>dump goyer
you need to at least pay attention to the goings on

DC are the heroes you can idolize for being strong, Marvel are the heroes you can idolize for being human.

a) Improve the cinematic universe by making coherent stories and good story arcs that works well with characters.

b) Forget about cinematic universe and instead let good directors like Nolan or Singer take standalone projects

>Fine
No, not fine. You've outed yourself as a total retard by shilling CW capeshit. You have no place telling anyone what they should do.

>True fans

Capeshit movies are for the mainstream movie goers not for comic fans, nobody is going to spend millions of dollars in FXs for niche fanbases.

Also the DCEU doesn't even get the comic characters right, Superman had doubts about his place in the world in the comics but he never lost hope in mankind nor he was a passive waste about it like DCEU Superman.

youtube.com/watch?v=8tmJRQ6IKkk

>They should have given a Batman trilogy to Snyder
Maybe it's not too late if Ben Affleck pussies out.

>Bad Plots
>Zach Snider as either director and/or producer , he made the perfect dark superhero movie with The Watchman, but he had a good script and they adapted the movie from the comic well.
>The writers they're using is garbage. Suicide Squad and Batman v. Superman failed because of the sloppy writing.
>They have great source material to work with but they aren't picking the right story arcs.

>And mostly, they're focus group testing this shit and shooting for the broadest appeal possible. And instead, they need to make movies that appeal to the guys that like comic book movies. Getting the urban appeal, senior citizen appeal, women appeal, minority appeal, etc; is a lost cause and by shooting for all, you're alienating everyone.

>and they're taking the formulaic hollywood approach, much like Transformers or a Jerry Bruckheimer film. Formulaic Hollywood movies are notoriously crap.

I think they need to poach some of the writers of the Marvel movies and everyone they've had who's had creative control of DC movies in the post-Nolan era needs to be scrapped.

They have a bad team on it that don't understand how these movies should work, they don't understand the target audience, and by shooting for broad appeal, they're alienating everyone.

you can't, marvel already won the normies war by dint of sheer quipping

...

DUMP JUSTICE LEAGUE

MAKE BATMAN MOVIES

Calm the 'tism chief, I only said fine because I thought that it'd make you less triggered.

Last time I try being nice to autists I guess.

This is a pretty solid idea. See, the thing is Batman has more realism to it than most other comics which makes it hard for him to have crossovers with the more supernatural comic book heroes and have it work out well. It's hard to create a tonally consistent movie.

And I think there's some things that just don't adapt well from comics to movie. Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad are prime examples. It would be hard to make a movie from either that's tonally consistent, and in the case of Suicide Squad, hard to make a crew of the DC Villain B Team that people are gonna care about.

Certain things must be trimmed from the source material to make for a better movie that people can get invested in the characters. I think Suicide Squad should have trimmed the characters to just the few you care about. Joker, Harlequin, Deadshot, and maybe Killer Croc to round them out. All the others were just too peripheral to get invested in.

Neither director nor writer could make characters you care about or a consistent tone, which are critical components to a good movie.

That being said, I didn't find them to be the complete wastes of time that people say. They were alright movies, okay for one fun viewing, but very flawed movies.

The Marvel movie team has good writing, a consistent directing and writing vision, good characters, and good actors to play them.

I think if the DC movie guys don't get their act together in a couple movies, the studio execs will stop funding them and there will be a dry spell of about a decade before they try again..... much like how it took them about a decade to try again after Batman and Robin flopped (also never use Robin, he curses any project he's in to suck).

So you're a catty teenage girl who was being fake all along. Go fuck yourself riding your 12 inch dildo to your tween network shows.

Me personally i think its a mtter of DC taking the time to actually plan things out before they rush into things.

Say what you will about Marel but they have a plan, and not just a bunch of ideas that get thrown out. They're very methodical in their approach and even when they fuck up (Avengers 2) they have a backup to fix it (Civil War).

DC has so far been the ones rushing their universe. There was no reason to move from the decent story Man of Steel told into the clusterfuck of 'orgin-destroying, sub plot upon sub plot + set up of literally every character' movie that was BvS. Had they taken their time and just made a Batman solo movie to establish his universe or hell just really focused on giving us a good Batman v Superman movie and saved the Wonder Woman/Justice League/Lex Luthor plots, it would've worked.

Now we have
>Decent Intro to modern Superman
>Terrible mashup of ruined plots and potential in BvS
>Terrible attempt to copy Marvel formula with Suicide Squad
>A Wonder Woman movie that's unnecessary but desu their last hope of being taken seriously.

They can still fix this. But i have my doubts that they will continue to try and make this DCEU overstuffed and overly complicated too fast and it'll ultimately collapse when it doesn't bring in the profits it needs.

Do you have an off switch? Because you're missing the point of what I was saying just because I implied that I liked something you don't like.

They can start by putting a stop to this shit.

I don't want to come across another article about this "brilliant character actor" getting into his role by giving people shitty gifts unless he's going to be playing a mentally retarded Santa Claus.

I sincerely believe Warner Bros is making their super hero movies so shitty on purpose. I think they want to kill the super hero franchise to stop the marvel train and not have to front $100+ million for each movie and can get back to making movies super cheap for maximum profit

This so much. I went into BvsS expecting something like Iron Man 2 at worst. Instead it was a constant pile-on of neverending shit.

Go outside or something.

Why is the interstellar black hole in the background?

I thought Leto had potential to be an amazing Joker. The problem is he was focus group tested to hell and women were uncomfortable with the scenes where he was abusive to Harley (a key component of their relationship).

So they trimmed his role down to just edgy moments that didn't show character depth that weren't too objectionable. Most of his material in Suicide Squad was cut.

Also as far as Suicide Squad goes, there was a good movie in that material somewhere, they'd probably have one if it was edited and pieced together differently. Reportedly, there were SEVEN different versions of that movie made because they kept revising to please focus groups.

The more watered down a director's vision gets through focus groups and studio meddling, the more watered down the artistic vision becomes. You can never please everyone with any product and by shooting for broad appeal, you wind up with no appeal.

How so? The DC movie universe is completely run by studio executives who refuse to talk to the comic side of things, save for one guy they put in for PR purposes but won't really listen to.

They need to let people who actually give a shit about the core property run things. The DC stuff is well known and loved, they should have an easy slam dunk, but they're floundering.

Looks like he's by the blackhole in interstellar

boys! boys! hear me out

what if the current DCEU we are witnessing is actually the injustice version?
and at some point this brooding, terrible universe crosses paths with the "proper" universe by way of a pseudo flashpoint

I never particularly had faith in Leto's Joker, but the studio didn't even let him have a honest chance to impress. Once again its the idea of over stuffing to catch up.

There was entirely no reason for Harley or Joker to be in Suicide Squad other than "this is a movie about Villains and we know this will sell big time with those two names."

They should've been saved for a Batman movie and Suicide Squad itself should've been more contained and smaller as opposed to the fucking ridiculous people with bats/guns/boomerangs vs a literal God/Witch.

Maybe after Infinity War when Marvel runs out of ideas they'll throw DC a bone and do a Marvel vs DC crossover.

The DCEU being brooding and dark like Injustice is not a problem. The problem is bad writing and direction/editing. People can deal with dark versions of these characters, but if its not competent its just terrible.

I guarantee you Goyers original cut of Ss would have made 1.5 billion. WB is fucking themselves.

I've had that thought, but I don't think that's the movie universe people want to watch for their first live outing of the Justice League. It would be a misstep.

This. Tired of the "it's dark that's why no one likes it!" scapegoat. Audiences have shown they can like dark, when it's done right, for decades.

Thank god for more Leto Joker. Finally we'll get some batfaggotry in a movie.

How are Nolan's movies darkness done right?

>le dark knight isn't good meme!
That's fine, you can have that opinion.

But I specifically said audiences, and there's a reason why TDK grossed 530m domestic (630m adj): audiences loved it. The movie hit a billion WITHOUT China.

No one said Nolan, but his movies are dark and gritty dont right because they aren't just there for show. It feels with the world created and makes sense within the story.

done* i meant

This pic makes me feel like I'm walking through ever Kanto cave ever and ran out of fucking repels.

>killed off Robin (critical error)
>did death of Superman
>pretty much did The Dark Knight returns
>did Kryptonian return
>did Batman vs Superman
>already did government hates heroes story
>wasted Doomsday
>Had Superman kill
>started justice league with no Green Lantern
>can't do any young Batman stories
>can't do any Batman and Robin stories
>can't do Nightwing as Robin is dead
>fucked up Green Lantern, might not be able to do new movie due to brand damage from first shit one
>Shit Luthor
>Shit Joker
>already doing Darkseid

They fucked themselves. The DCAU gave themselves lots to grow from. DCEU jumped the gun with old Batman and robbed themselves years of movies/development. Where can they go after Justice League? Can't do Teen Titans as they killed robin

They need to reboot and build a universe around a younger Batman/Superman discovering the universe.

He didn't lost hope in mankind in BvS, and Superman did lost hope in mankind in Kingdom Come.

You just outed yourself as a casual, my friend.

The comics side is dumb as fuck, as well. Look at the Nu52.

Though Im not entirely sold on giving Black Adam his own movie, it would be a nice way to reboot this entire thing
>Establish magic
>Establish the old gods and tease Wonder Woman
>Reference New Gods to later lead into Darkseid, and all other 4th World shit
>Perhaps build up Doctor Fate

You do know that the second Robin died in the comics victim of the Joker, right?

That they can do prequel movies about Batman early years like the Star Wars movie, right?