Angel/Buffy threads

Whatever happened to them? I remember a time when there was an active Buffy or Angel thread up every other day. Why can't we go back to that time, Sup Forums? Why can't we just go back?

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Angel > Buffy

because we had a civil war. Buffy lost. And after winning..and fred poster basically was building a monument to his waifu. There wasn't much left to say.

Fred > Willow

Was that ever even up for debate?

The board followed Joss Whedon in moving on to capeshit.

all hail the champs

Honestly, it was the better show. Buffy fell off hard as the seasons went on.

Angel was, I mean.

they tried too hard to make it into an edgy soap opera in the last 3 seasons

While Angel was consistently great except for a few growing pains in early season 1.

S1 of Angel was honestly pretty shit IMO, it took them awhile to find their stride but when they did it was pure tvkino

Well we're majorly male, all best males, one way or other ended up on Angel. Fans loved spike? Angel, Wes? who became loved, Angel etc.

I mean there're some holdouts for giles but overall if you wanted or needed to project onto a male, you had all best choices on Angel.

I also think Joss suiciding his career for his ego helped destroy his fanbases. By playing into the mythologizing around himself it eroded any support he had among males. Women already turned on him. Not all but quite a few, so he made camp with a mercurial people.

Which I specifically remember him being praised on here for a long time after Avengers came out so, capeshit isn't the whole answer.

Hear, hear.

capeshit broke Joss, now he just talks about how he hope's people are raped to death by large animals on twitter

I can imagine him pantomiming out a scene where it happens using an action figure getting raped by a rhino.

That's something I've noticed about the two shows, it seems to me women tend to lean more towards Buffy, while men tend to lean more towards Angel. I don't know if it's just because one has a female lead and the other a male, but I thought it was interesting.

Old fat lesbians are still annoyingly crazy about Buffy though.

Season 1 was hit-and-miss, but got better as it went on and had some great episodes. For example the Faith two-parter

I lean more toward Angel just because the character development is so much more satisfying. Each character became more and more interesting with each passing season, unlike on Buffy where the characters became more and more insufferable with each passing season.

I do think Buffy is a better protagonist than Angel, but Angel has the better overall cast. Not to mention Wolfram & Hart is more interesting than all of the Big Bads from Buffy combined

because los angeles is actually hell

>tfw you will never again experience the gilded age of television that was 1995-2005

Uh, pretty sure men don't watch either show.

Unless you mean "men" who live in their mom's basement.

...

Woah I need HD Buffy. The forearm hair must be insane.

Making comments like that while being in the same place and times as people you're trying to talk shit about? really? So do you often insult yourself?

I think Angel being more open ended and generic actually helped people, his defined character was really Angelus, which people loved.

I think by their nature male lead needs to have that quality to get as many people projecting onto captain forehead as possible.

They normally appear when people are on the re watch. Lilah for best girl, Lilah in pigtails, glasses and southern accent is even better.

youtube.com/watch?v=Q5D-YIldov4

I know this feel. Fuck all the edgy humorless HBO dramas that get showered with undeserved awards, whatever happened to nice comfy, fun tv shows like we had back in the day?

True, Wesley and Cordelia were much, much better on Angel, and Gunn, Fred and Lorne were all great characters.

That, and Angel seemed a little more mature. The high school aspect of early Buffy really only appeals to people who are still in or just out of high school.

Dude nothing has actually changed. Buffy and Angel weren't getting emmy awards. Granted, I don't think CW's capeshit shows are as good as Angel/Buffy, but those types of shows still exist.

There's nothing fun or comfy about Supergirl, user. It's just bad.

Can demons become vampires? If Angel had bitten Lorne, drunk his blood and then fed him his own blood, would Lorne have become a vampire?

>using this old rhetorical meme

I hate you, you know there isn't a good answer to this.

But vampires are already demons, and since we never saw any double demon vampires I think we can assume that it only works on humans?

things have changed quite a bit

there are a few good genre shows out there, but nothing compared to the what there was to choose from 10-20 years ago. Buffy, Angel, Hercules, Xena, Farscape, Stargate SG-1, Relic Hunter, Cleopatra 2525, Jack of All Trades, etc. They make the modern "fun action-adventure" shows look like complete garbage

Even the "prestigious" premium cable shows were better back then, with The Sopranos, The Wire, Rome, Dead Like Me, Carnivale, etc.

Television has shit the bed in the last 8-10 years

You can only discuss a dead show so much, let it go dude.

it's beyond bad, one of the worst shows I've ever seen

no

now stop asking

more interesting than new shows

...

I agree that television is worse now, I should have specified that I meant the awards. Genre shows have always been snubbed in favor of super srs dramas.

I think the current show Salem shows where they think they need to be.

They need to fill that serialized niche space of adventure story that they used to own but also compete with netflix and cable/amazon etc.

Salem is a effects driven story in vain of their earlier shows except without 90s camp and now they're taking themselves seriously.

Then 5 minutes later this <

Wesley had awesome character development and yet could still be hilarious

Fuck you, I'm going to watch it now just to be contrarian.

fine, be a masochist

Maybe that's the problem, they take themselves way too seriously now. Literally the only good thing about Salem was Stephen Lang hamming it up.

I don't watch Arrow or the flash, but are they really that much worse than Hercules or Xena?

Don't lie, you already watched it. Nobody is suddenly watching supergirl. It lost nearly 12 million viewers from cbs to wb.

People don't ham it up enough on genre shows anymore. Police procedurals are the last bastion of camp.

I'm literally starting it up on Netflix. I didn't actually know it was still on, Netflix only had one season from a year ago so I figured it was cancelled.

yes, they are far, far worse

Herc and Xena had a great balance and fun action and broad comedy, with all kinds of amusing side characters. Not to mention the wonderful, wonderful fanservice

The CW shows are certainly campy enough, but lack the self-aware wit of adventure shows from back in the day. Not to mention all the SJW crap

>watch angel when i was young on tbs reruns at 5 am, because i always worked the closing shift at a movie theatre

>eventually get around to watching buffy a decade later
>season 3 is amazing, im hype as fuck
>literally everything from its finale on, is downhill
>beloved angel spike is a rapist when hes a "goodguy"
>darla just fuckin dies like an episode in
>angel has literally no character, yet is somehow not the worse actor on the show
>theres no flashbacks to angelus to be found at all
...i dont even know what i fucking expected, but it sure wasnt fucking "glory"

Speaking of comfy genre shows, Quantum Leap just got removed from Netflix and now I want to an hero myself.

>A show with meta episodes, comedy, adventure stories and this..

should have been the series finale

If you want a comfy genre show on netflix, you could give Person of Interest a shot. It's pretty comfy and Jim Caviezel is a master at delivering dry one liners. Might be up your alley.

They really dropped the ball after season 3 and became the case study for genre shows in highschool where they go don't do this if you have a show in highschool.

I used to watch reruns of Angel on tnt in morning too.

They poke fun at fact that protagonists are terrible people. The episode in season 5 where the guys try to console wesley by telling him about how they murdered their parents is pretty great.

The angelus flashbacks happened in spurts across both shows but you mean really going back in time and enjoying the broad history that angelus had and could have enjoyed? Problem I think honestly was budget. They went back in time several times across first, 3 seasons of angel and buffy where you see glimpses of their past.

Eve was my waifu. I could not believe how incredibly perfect she was when that season started.

Just finished person of interest. I was a big fan. Caveziel is perfect for the role, and I love how Finch is literally just Ben Linus. Plus it had Amy Acker which is actually why I originally started watching it

well thats true, they did go to past periods several times in buffy, with angel/angelus

but honestly, theres probably more flashbacks in season 3 of angel, than there is the entirety of angels time on buffy

i will admit though, even though overall i disliked buffy (individually i liked much of it though, but less than 50%) i REALLY liked watching episodes that synced up, and from watching it, i ended up loving two of my favorite characters even more than i already did
that would be wesley and faith btw, hell, i even liked cordy quite a bit more


also schoolgirl darla was cute as fuk, she sounded so fucking young

>which is actually why I originally started watching it
you think thats bad, i watched the entirety of leverage AND the librarians tv show for more "lindsey"

Wait what the redhead was on leverage?

oh you mean christian kane, nevermind, spaced out his angel name for a minute.

Well then I'm out of suggestions for ya. I watched it last year when they put the first 4 seasons on netflix and fell in love with it, it was a cool concept and maybe I'm weird, but I kind of like it when shows blend procedural and serial aspects together. Kind of reminded me of the X-Files in that regard.

And Root was best girl.

well i was busy finding a good picture of lindseys plastic hand, but you realized who i was talking about before i got one.
he pretty much plays the same character every time. secretly southern, good at fighting, has anger problems. they even all wear his bracelet

and lindsey himself was practically just an over exaggerated christian anyway

Fringe is pretty good if youreinto shows like that, though it starts to fall apart a bit in later seasons

>secretly southern
Secret southerner in the big city is one of my favorite character motivation cliches.

was buffy even widescreen?`

no the hd edit they did fucked it up, I think it was on logo or something.

Literally fpbp.

Series 4 of Angel is the lowest point out of both though

nearly all episodes with connor in them are horrible

wow

exactly

Are implying Leverage was bad? Librarians is kinda iffy half the time but Leverage was solid like 90% of eps.

Yeah. He's much better in season 5, but that's only because he's literally a different person.

season 5 fixed a lot of problems, Bell really came through in a lot of ways.

This. S5 Connor, for the few episodes he appeared in, was actually pretty great. Had he just been like that for his whole run Connor would have been fine.

Instead we got 2 seasons of overdone teenage angst.

they actually used his angst to his advantage for once, codifying it into kind of this badass, I'm a young version of Angel kind of thing when he got his memories back and then when you see him leaving to go back with his foster family, giving look that it was real him again but he finally had couth that was similar to angel that kind of balances it out.

They riffed off of Angel in a lot of ways to fix him.

agreed, it was exciting to get a male slayer then charisma carpenter fucked up by hiding her pregnancy and they had to re write the story around her and her fat gut and turned conner into a piss ant

Yeah, I like that they used the mind-wiping to ease the tensions in the team, making them feel like real friends again.

Honestly, the best thing about it was that it basically erased the Fred/Gunn/Wesley love triangle. That shit dragged on for nearly a full season. It was way too much.

Vampires are consider half demons in Angel lore.

technically doyle and whistler were half demons, blood rats were just really diluted demons

It's messed up because Angel took blame for Angelus's actions yet if he doesn't have a soul..he is taking credit for a demon's actions. Actions that were against his will the entire time. He was turned against his will, killed his parents. Became a mass murderer etc and then treated it as if he was the problem.

As show went on it was more nuanced, such as Orpheus in season 4 where they hint it is more like a sub conscious kind of thing instead of a soul/no soul deal.

Yet true happiness can rob him of the curse. So maybe soul isn't energy but control. a higher form of control.

If you swallow vampire semen, will you become a vampire?

The monument just got 10ft taller.

Only fluid they have is blood brah. Dick shoots blood

I've always wondered if Angel was really good, or if he was only atoning because he couldn't bear to suffer the anguish of all he'd done as Angelus. Who is really responsible for all he did?

Liam hated his family, his father, and I think his mother too. He only loved his sister. He spent all his time getting drunk and fucking whores. Then Darla comes along and creates Angelus.

Angelus seems to be all the things Liam was but with the capacity to to even more horrific stuff because of his lack of a soul. The centuries of slaughter and maiming and destruction are mostly on him and Darla. Then gypsies curse him with a soul and he becomes Angel.

Angel remembers every single thing Angelus did and strives to atone for it, which is good, yes? But at the same time, the only reason he is doing it is because he was cursed with a soul, unwillingly. Spike did awful things just the same as Angelus did, but in the end he willing fought for a soul because he wanted to be good, whilst Angel had it forced on him.

Is Angel really, truly good? Or is he only doing good because he knows that if he doesn't he will be overcome with guilt and remorse over what he did?

Are Angel and Angelus really the same person all along? In my opinion Angel is just Angelus shackled with a soul but desperate to get free.

you have a valid point sir

He signed the shanshu in blood giving up his chance at humanity forever. In struggle for good. He beats spike. Everything spike did was for selfish reasons. Soul included. He spent two weeks in a basement. Angel spent nearly a 100 years eating rats.

Why would Angel/Angelus care about humanity? He'd still remember everything he did, human or not. Signing away his Shanshu was easy for him.

I should amend that as a vampire spike is better adjusted and accepts demons actions better. His first selfless act was the battle in north alley taking on wolfram and heart. His journey mirrored angels at end. And I think he took to path better than Angel. Angel fought it entire way

But if he becomes human, doesn't that mean he'd have a soul without the happiness clause attached? I thought that was his entire motivation.

All he ever wanted was to be human. Did you watch the show? He hated being a vampire

That's why he gave up being human on three separate occasions right?

1.) Gem Of Amarra- Would have made him essentially a human who just has enhanced strength and invulnerability and speed. He can go out in the day and doesn't have to drink blood.

2.) The blood of a Morha demon- The blood mixed with his and made him human. He fucked Buffy for a few hours, decided to become a vampire again because he didn't want Buffy to "get hurt"

3.) Signing away his Shanshu - This one is self explanatory. He signed away any chance of becoming human after stopping the end of the world just to make a tiny dent in the forces of evil.