Young Pope

>that ending to episode 4
I don't get it but I love it

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Sorrentino's aesthetic is about contrasting the sacred and the profane. It's what the Great Beauty is about. So you have this good Catholic women, who happens to be the respected prime minister of a country, dancing sexily to a pop song in the middle of the Vatican. It's sort of profanely beautiful.

>Voiello is playing checkers while the Pope is playing 4D chess

Does Sorrentino actually hold any traditionalist Catholic beliefs?

obviously not. The tv series has nothing catholic in it, reason why Babylon (i.e. the US) funded it

actually I meant the Whore of Babylon. Babylon is international jewry

Wasn't it half-funded by Sky?

Sky is owned by Rupert Murdoch, what's your point?

It's a European company owned by an Australian. That's not US-funded.

>Murdoch is an australian
>the legal branch is registered in Europe therefore it's a european company
shlomo pls

Sorrentino aesthetic is about destroying the sacred with mixing it with the profane and thus emptying it of its sacrality. It's subversion, materialism and atheism 101.

>pope becomes more of a sympathetic character every episode

I thought this was supposed to be "religion is bad" the series?

But the way it's all presented makes a relatively progressive viewer almost understand Lenny banning gay priests and actively root against Voiello's attempts to stop him

If you want to make the argument that stock ownership is so diffuse that Americans can own parts of European companies, then 'US-funded' doesn't mean anything. Companies can be financed by people all over the world.

stop with the grasping at straws. Who funded the show? HBO and Sky. Who owns sky? American jews. That's the truth, period.

no, at the end of the series you have the impression that religion is only an illusion, doesn't matter how people deal with it. I could make you many examples. The most disgusting one is when they describe priests as cowards that escape from love, and they have several character endorse that view. Absolutely repugnant.

*who owns HBO and Sky

If you don't think Sorrentino has respect for the sacred then you should watch The Great Beauty again. He's not Madonna. He's not denigrating the sacred, he's elevating the quotidian and profane by shooting it with the same lense he shoots the sacred. You can dislike that, but he doesn't come across like a reductive materialist.

Jews own the media and the financial industry because they have the highest average IQ in the world, not because they're attempting to take over the West. Your perception of Jews is the same as Nation of Islam's perception of white people.

>you should watch The Great Beauty again
I have watched it twice already

> He's not denigrating the sacred, he's elevating the quotidian and profane by shooting it with the same lense he shoots the sacred
Wrong, he's showing the Jesus on the cross in a frame and a man buttfucking a man that fucks a woman sweating and pushing on a wall in the other. He is not elevating the profane, he is lowering the sacred. That's the ONLY consequence of shooting sacred and profane with the same lenses. It never elevates the profane because the profane will always remain the profane, no matter how much intellectual gymnastics you make. Profane cannot be made to look sacred. But sacred can be made to look empty and profane. Which is exactly what Sorrentino does. But he does it in a very subtle way that only an orthodox Catholic can recognize.
>You can dislike that, but he doesn't come across like a reductive materialist.
Of course not, he is not obvious about it. He does it in a subtle and brainwashing way.

>Jews own the media and the financial industry because they have the highest average IQ in the world
t.jewish person
Jews in Israel have a low IQ, the jews in the west have a high IQ because they live in the west. They leech off the christian culture that created prosperity in Europe and try to subvert it. Murdoch and other rich jews for example send their kids to catholic institutions for their education, because they know they are the best institutions, certainly not because they are catholic.
> not because they're attempting to take over the West
They don't have to attempt, they have already managed to do it.
>Your perception of Jews is the same as Nation of Islam's perception of white people.
Not at all. I don't see the world under a racialist pov. You are the one that speaks of "le superior IQ". Jews are the way they are for cultural, religious and metaphysical reasons (rejection of Christ and therefore of Logos).

t. Insecure beta faggot

t.intellectual midget with 0 arguments

>that image
You're making my arguments for me buddy

The entire show is about exploring the grey area between forgiveness and dogma and how beauty relates to divinity. It is explicit about it. You are not uncovering subtle brainwashing.

ok then enlighten me user, let's see you make an actual argument. Why am I an insecure beta faggot?

>exploring the grey area between forgiveness and dogma
neither of which Sorrentino understand anything about
>how beauty relates to divinity
there's no divinity in the shots that he tries to make appear beautiful. It's always mundane, earthly things, pure exercise of "look how good I am with protograph and lighting" that has no connection to a higher ideal. I guess that's to be expected when the whole story is just a way to make "holy" people do and say completely anti-catholic and atheists things with catholic robes on.
>You are not uncovering subtle brainwashing.
I don't need too, it's right there for everyone to see. If you can't see it you are already brainwashed.
The point is this tv series has nothing catholic in it. Catholicism is just a pretext for Sorrentino's own personal shitty philosophy, so that he can give it some aura of higher authority. If you denty that and think otherwise, then you are an ignorant, or worse, a retard, or even worse, an intellectually dihonest person

Jewish intellectual superiority is exclusive to the central European Jewish genetic lineage. The reason it's not present in Israel is because a substantial portion of Jews who live there are either Sephardic or Arab Jews. Ashkenazi Jews have a demonstrably higher IQ than every other population on Earth even when accounting for culture, hence why both Orthadox and secular Ashkenazis, raised in completely different cultural traditions, are successful.

As for the profane nature of the scene you're talking about, I never got the impression that it was sodomy. I do grant that intercutting the prayer with the sex was shocking, but I don't think there's anything inherently offensive about portraying sex between a married couple attempting to have children in a sacred context. Christianity isn't anti-sex.

Think back on the scene in The Great Beauty where Sorrentino portrays a botax clinic. When he shows the 17 year old nun getting treated, do you honestly think that the film is elevating that? That's he's not critiquing it? He's not appropriating beauty in order denegrate it, like heavy metal musicians used to do; he's someone who has genuine respect for the transcendent.

You're in ironically threatened by da joos. You post knights templar memes.

a man buttfucking a man that fucks a woman


"le superior IQ". "le superior IQ". "le superior IQ". "le superior IQ". "le superior IQ". "le superior IQ".

>nuns playing with children in a garden is beautiful
>"wow what fucking cultural Marxist peice of shit. Only the divine can be portrayed as beautiful"
He's not attacking traditional sacred beauty, he's elevating the day-to-day beauty

You really don't understand the show. If you think all art that features religion is blasphemous or pseudo-worshiping false idols then fine, but don't claim to be an expert on the divine when you dismiss a show that is doing an excellent job attempting to define it.

these are English words, true enough, but this makes no sense

>Jewish intellectual superiority is exclusive to the central European Jewish genetic lineage. The reason it's not present in Israel is because a substantial portion of Jews who live there are either Sephardic or Arab Jews. Ashkenazi Jews have a demonstrably higher IQ than every other population on Earth even when accounting for culture, hence why both Orthadox and secular Ashkenazis, raised in completely different cultural traditions, are successful.
I rest my case, you filthy racialist and racist scum. "muh european genes are superior", nigger pls. Also if other kinds of jews are dumb then it's not jews that are smart, it's europeans. Jews don't have a higher IQ, they have simply used their intelligence to pervert Christendom, they have appealed to the emotions and corrupted passions of man. It's very easy to have """"success""" like that. It's like saying that Trump is the smartest man in America because he became rich building skyscrapers.
Either way this is too nuance and complicated a topic and we're going off-topic.

>there's nothing wrong about intercutting prayer with sex
just listen to yourself shlomo. Also I am not referring to that scene.
> Christianity isn't anti-sex.
lol. Christianity is against any form of sex that isn't inside marriage and aimed at reproduction. Even if you are married, if you use condoms you commit mortal sin.

>Think back on the scene in The Great Beauty
don't change the subject, that's a different movie. The fact that to defend the Young Pope you have to use a scene from the Great Beauty is proof enough that you're full of shit and grasping at straws.

projecting much? I am not afraid of anyone. What do I have to be afraid of? I am simply stating facts, that you like them or not, are still facts. Memes are just memes.

a man buttfucking a man from behind, while that sodomized man fucks a woman, while they all lean on a wall playing the sandwich. Is it clearer now, autist-kun?

>You really don't understand the show
pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you admit that this tv show is not catholic, and has nothing catholic in it?
The problem here is that whether you agree with me on Sorrentino's intentions, this tv show is not religious neither in message nor in character. Do you deny that? Do you seriously deny that?
>If you think all art that features religion is blasphemous or pseudo-worshiping false idols
I don't, but nice strawman
> don't claim to be an expert on the divine when you dismiss a show that is doing an excellent job attempting to define it.
It's not trying to define the divine, it's trying to defile it. This is what Sam Harris could write if he mad a show about a Pope. Not what a devout catholic or a religious person would write.
Pasolini was an atheist and a commie, but filmed one of the most famous and appreciated movies about the Gospel. And in that movie (written by a commie and atheist) you can see a lot more spirituality and religiosity than in the Young Pope. That's to give you a comparison of how materialist and atheistic this tv show is

the beauty in the day-to-day, from a christian perspective, is a reflection of the divine. Instead Sorrentino makes God a reflection of that day-to-day beauty, a background noise to the atheist-humanistic beauty of human flesh and human desires. He overturns the natural order. It's not a catholic tv show.

It has nothing Catholic in it, you're right. Except for Vatican City. And some nuns.

European Jews and Europeans as a whole have different average IQs because they're genetically distinct. I'm not arguing that Jews are better people, I'm arguing that Jews being disproportionately represented in positions of power isn't the result of some conspiracy, it's the result of having genes that are conducive to being successful in modern society. I'm not a racist because I don't think that the value of a human being should be determined by his or her IQ, but I also don't deny reality by suggesting that IQ doesn't correlate with success.

As for the scene you're talking about, the church in their Humanae Vitae declaration decided that sex for the purpose of procreation is their stance, but that in circumstances where a married couple can't have children, sex isn't forbidden.

Give an example of a catholic film

So by attempting to show the exact natural order you describe artistically he is somehow doing the opposite? Just stop.

...

Our culture elevates the flesh left and right, yet you're going to waste your time critiquing someone who elevates both the flesh and the sacred? And even critiques the flesh as shallow in films like The Great Beauty? Shouldn't your energy go to critiquing every other artist out there?

At last we agree. I do appreciate though the photography and Sorrentino's craftmanship, and would have probably enjoyed it more if I just muted it while watching it.

> it's the result of having genes that are conducive to being successful in modern society
> I'm not a racist because I don't think that the value of a human being should be determined by his or her IQ, but I also don't deny reality by suggesting that IQ doesn't correlate with success.
so first you argue success = value and then that race = success, but in the end race =/= value?
Seems like you are rationalizing your worldly, materialistic and eugenicist point of view.
So who's got the superior genes exactly? You claim european jews are superior because of their genes (therefore implying that it's their jewish genes that give them a boost), but then you say that the ones in Israel are stupid because they don't have european ones. So which is which?
There's nothing superior in genes. You can be the most retarded person in the world, and come up with the most imporant idea, and most important invention for humankind. Except if you did that, nobody would ever accuse you of being dumb. It's the same usual story of people being affected by confirmation bias and trying to find value in the material and earthly, a value that can overcome everything else but always ultimately fails to do so. Anyway this is completely off-topic so let's end it here


You lack reading comprehension. He upends the natural order. In the natural order the day-to-day beauty is a shadow and reflection of God. In Sorrentino's view God is just a background noise to the day-to-day beauty, that assumes the center stage and becomes the pivot and inspiration of human actions and desires. It's completely antithetical to christian thought.

>>in circumstances where a married couple can't have children, sex isn't forbidden.
First of all I mentioned condoms, it was an example to your broad and mistaken generalization that christianity isn't anti-sex. They are naturally sterile, so of course it's ok for them to have sex. This has nothing to do with my critique of the tv show. In fact I was referring to a different scene, and if you really want to go there, there's nothing sacred and catholic in that married couple and their relationship with the Church (and it's members) as shown in the tv show (and you know it), reason why you have to cherrypick and compartmentalize the argument to dance around the issues.

>I don't put shit in your mouth
>I put caviar, with shit sprinkled on top
>so it's ok
do you even listen to yourself?
Also I have already explained how elevating the flesh isn't the only thing he does, and cannot be done without lowering the sacred. In fact, the sacred is nowhere to be found in the tv show. Everytime the sacred of the supernatural is hinted at, it's always subtly mocked in a way or another. Pic related an example of that.

> And even critiques the flesh as shallow in films like The Great Beauty?
Again, using a different movie to defend the Young Pope is completely dishonest and manipulative and I won't lower my self to that. It also shows that you have a bias towards Sorrentino and are not objective in your analysis

>Shouldn't your energy go to critiquing every other artist out there?
Who says that I don't critique other artists out there?

You're a fucking moron. If you actually watched the show you'd see that Sorrentino is portraying the reflection you speak of everywhere. You're inane insistence that by conveying artistically that there is beauty everywhere and using that universal beauty as a symbol of God you are somehow saying exactly the opposite is wearing thin.

*or the supernatural

My point about genes and IQ was to explain why Jews are disproportionately represented in certain fields, as opposed to, as the tenor of your posts seemed to imply, that there's a conspiracy of Jews who get into influential positions in order to debauch our culture.

I'm not making a qualitative judgement of certain peoples, or justifying the establishment of a racial hierarchy. I completely understand that the value of someone to society is independent of their IQ, I'm only offering an explenation as to why Jews tend to do so well that isn't full of conspiratorial nonsense.

We're only on episode 5 in America. I don't know what scene you're referring to.

show me your tumblr please

The reason the sacred isn't to be found in The Young Pope despite being in The Great Beauty is because the show is portraying someone whose relationship to God has been strained, and he can't find a way to accept the transcendent nature of God. That's part of his arc.

>You're inane insistence that by conveying artistically that there is beauty everywhere and using that universal beauty as a symbol of God you are somehow saying exactly the opposite is wearing thin.
Honestly how can you still not get my argument? Can you speak English? I have already told you that he doesn't show that beauty as a symbol of God, he shows God as a symbol of that beauty. He overturns reality. Your inability to grasp this is exactly why I say that he is subtle and many people don't get what he is doing. You are the literal proof.

> that there's a conspiracy of Jews who get into influential positions in order to debauch our culture.
There's an attempt, either conscious or unconscious, of Jews to overturn Christendom. By destroying the values of Christendom, they can kill Christ again and for good. That brings them naturally to hold certain positions from which to do it more easily. History shows that literally everywhere.
Your intent to call this "conspiracy" is simply a way to diminish my argument, and trivialize it. In no way do I live my life seeing a jew at every corner. But the jews, since they rejected Christ and therefore the natural order, have assumed the role that the Bible calls "synagogue of satan", not because they are all satanists (although some of them most likely are), but because they are all in opposition to those values, principles and order that through Christ have spread and fertilized Europe.
Also it's good to hear you are not a racialist, but your worldview and argumentative points especially in the beginning were very much influenced by racialism, even if you didn't mean to, and that was my critique.

the passion of Christ

In English: He is 100% showing beauty as a symbol of God. It is explicitly referenced multiple times. You are a moron.

Everywhere I look I see Jews on the Right affirming Western culture, and Jews on the Left critiquing it. I see pro and anti-Zionist Jews. I see people like Ezra Levant, and people like Goerge Soros. I don't see a single Jewish personality type that makes me believe that they have any sort of goal in mind.

right back at you pal

>I say that we should stop going off-topic
>keeps staying on that topic
There's several reasons for what you are describing. In part it is because jews play both sides, so they are never left out of the game so to speak. The second one is because zionists have assumed some western values akin to the natural order, and the rest of the jews despise them for that. But don't be fooled, both have the same goal.
Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman/Von Mises were jews, and so were Lenin, Marx and Trotsky. Completely different ideologies but equally cancer. There's more than one way and one direction to subvert

*to subvert the Logos

>muh Logos

E. Michael Jones posts on Sup Forums now?

>hating on based E.Michael Jones

If the people who are conspiring against you are also on your side, then it's an unfalsifiable and unprovable conspiracy. It's both a paranoid and a defeatist way of perceiving the world.

E.Michael Jones is an actual Catholic, as opposed to Mementino

THAT'S DOCTOR KINO TO YOU

He's pretty based, though I disagree about the whole "everything bad about America is part of some WASP psyop against based Catholics" stuff though

> the people who are conspiring against you are also on your side
They are not on my side though, which is what I hinted at when I said "don't be fooled" and in various other parts of my post. Jews start being on my side when they accept Christ and genuinely convert to Catholicism

>he's pretty based

I think his complaint is more about WASP often being useful idiots for international talmudism, because they often ally themselves with the jews if it's about harming Catholicism. Also they have weakened Christendom by splintering it, thus making it easier to subvert

I knew some fucking Sup Forumstist would find some way to get butthurt about this show

>if you tell the truth that means you come from Sup Forums
really makes one ponder

A religious monoculture is one thing, but living in a place where all the people think the same is tantamount to intellectual death. I don't think that individual Jews represent a different perspective, but their culture does. And it's a perspective that gave us Einstein and Kubrick, but also gave us Marx. And without having an outside culture critiquing our culture, we wouldn't have a reason to take a long, deep look at ourselves and understand both our beauty and our blemishes.

>A religious monoculture is one thing, but living in a place where all the people think the same is tantamount to intellectual death.
oh user, I wish I was still this naive
>Kubrick and Einstein
Kubrick hated other jews though, he literally said that Hitler was right. Einstein wasn't as amazing as they make him out to be. Nice cherrypicking though, you must have thought really hard trying to find good examples of famous jews that did nothing wrong. I'll make a good example of a jew too: Alphonse Marie Ratisbonne
> without having an outside culture critiquing our culture, we wouldn't have a reason to take a long, deep look at ourselves and understand both our beauty and our blemishes.
They don't critique, they subvert and destroy. Big difference

How was that cherrypicking? Do you know how much Jews have contributed to the arts and sciences? Even mostly apolitical Jews have given us wonderful music and literature. I could list dozens of people.

As for whether or not they destroy or critique, are you arguing that about 4% of the population is able to "destroy" the culture of the other 96% by the simple acts of writing and talking? That gives such little agency to the majority of people that it can't really be perceived as anything other than conspiratorial. If you think our culture has fallen, then it's the result of hundreds of years of post-enlightenment criticism, not Jewish subversion.

Why would you think that? Literally no one has ever said that about the young kino

So many goddamn waifus in this show

>Even mostly apolitical Jews have given us wonderful music and literature
lol, the highest and long-lasting music and literature in Europe has been made by Europeans, never jews. Jews becoming prominent, guess when? In modernity, when they have already subverted core christian values.
>As for whether or not they destroy or critique, are you arguing that about 4% of the population is able to "destroy" the culture of the other 96% by the simple acts of writing and talking?
user, you are being incredibly naive. Look, it's ok if you are ethnically jewish. I don't want to genocide you, just convert you.
Regarding your question, start by watching this: youtube.com/watch?v=p8ERfxWouXs
>That gives such little agency to the majority of people that it can't really be perceived as anything other than conspiratorial
You have a warped view of what constituted a "majority" or a group of people and how they decide how to live their life or what to believe. How many people in women's march knew what the fuck they were doing out there? So much naivety.
>If you think our culture has fallen, then it's the result of hundreds of years of post-enlightenment criticism, not Jewish subversion.
You seem to think the two are mutually exclusive. Also I never said jews are the sole agents of subversion in society. Now you are just painting me as obsessed by jews in particular whereas I am not, I am just stating truths about them

>he fell for the IQ meme
intelligence is 99% how you are raised look at fucking obama

>one outlier disproves established science

Someone seems too have let out some Sup Forumstards from their containment board. If you can kindly find your way back there that would be great. You and your other nazi friends can play around in that cesspool as much as you want. Your kind is not appreciated here.

I am not from Sup Forums and I am not a nazi. As I have already said, I have no particular animosity towards jews as a people

Awww cute the nazi is trying to disguise itself

The longest musicial and literary European traditions have been primarily Christian because Jews were excluded from Western culture until recently. Think of Mahler, Mendelssohn, Bernstein. They're now part of the canon along with the Christians.

As for your views on Jewish subversion, I don't think we can possibly convince each other of the our respectve views. Many of the examples of "Jewish" moral subversion are just another name for the universalization of European aristocratic morality. The enlightenment was the issue, not the Jews who've only really been part of the conversation for the last century and a half.

Obama is one person. IQ averages are about groups, not individual people.

>being this much of a retard
you have to go back

>The longest musicial and literary European traditions have been primarily Christian because Jews were excluded from Western culture until recently
changing the argument again? First you say all the most beautiful things all came from Jews, now you say that it's not so because jews were oppressed. lmao.
>Mahler, Mendelssohn, Bernstein
>only three names
shit-tier btw. Try going to a random person in the streets and ask if they know who they are
>Many of the examples of "Jewish" moral subversion are just another name for the universalization of European aristocratic morality.
lol wut? Absolutely wrong
>The enlightenment was the issue, not the Jews who've only really been part of the conversation for the last century and a half.
oh, so you think there weren't jews in Europe during the enlightenment. You are even more naive than I thought.

>that dishonestly
I never said the most beautiful things were Jewish, I said that countless Jews have contributed beautiful things. And yes, the ghettoization of Jews during the Middle Ages made it so that all of the great art patronized by the church up until the 19th century have been almost exclusively Christian.

And no, I never said that Jews played no role in the enlightenment, but you can't deny that the movement's primary figures weren't Jews.

And yeah, moral degeneration can be traced back to the French Revolution and the British and French (often aristocratic) leftists who did everything in their power to destroy the axioms European society was built on.

Man what's up with these medelling jews am i right? I wish there was some sort of one time solution to just get rid of them if you know what i mean.

is the sign of kino that the threads are never about the show itself

>I wish there was some sort of one time solution to just get rid of them if you know what i mean
There is one user, it's called mass conversion to Catholicism.

>I never said the most beautiful things were Jewish,
You implied they contributed greatly to the Western world with art and science. But if they could only do that since recently, then they couldn't contribute to Europe they way you try to portray them to.
>And no, I never said that Jews played no role in the enlightenment, but you can't deny that the movement's primary figures weren't Jews.
I never said they were
>moral degeneration can be traced back to the French Revolution and the British and French (often aristocratic) leftists who did everything in their power to destroy the axioms European society was built on.
On that we can partly agree at least

In my defense, I tried to warn against going off-topic

anyway...the pope is young and hot

>Your PM will never be this hot

what a cutie

>mass conversion to Catholicism

Religion is for retards. Are you a retard?

Are you denying that Jews haven't been disproportionately represented among great 20th and 21st century scientists?

I just want to take her out to dinner

This series isn't quite as anti-Christian as I expected, especially considering the symbolism in the intro.

It's obviously not preaching, and maybe that's the point. It wanted to portray the Church as human, and maybe mirror Francis.

no but you are

shove your fedora up your bum

A nice innocent thread about a great show got ruined by Sup Forumsbabies who are so up their own ass regarding DA EBIL JOOS that it distorts (they would hilariously say "illuminates") any media they consume. How fucking sad must your life be to align yourself with literal Nazi ideologies about Jews being some kind of plague on the earth. You pathetic "knights for the truth". Miserable.

I wish i was that /fa/ and /hm/

>post full of vitriol and insults
>0 arguments
why do you faggots try so hard to make me like Sup Forums?

Oh dude, by all means! You should unironically post in Sup Forums and fight "the good fight" against the global jewish overlords that conspire to create tv shows that slander Catholicism! OOOoOooOOOooo

Seriously tho, if that didn't sound absolutely moronic and autistic to you, then there's no hope for you. If you actually believe what I just said as a joke, then may god have mercy on your soul.

>post full of vitriol and insults
>0 arguments

Considering this describes Sup Forums more than anyone else, you're either not very bright and from there already, or just not very bright.

why are you so triggered, passive-aggressive and projecting? Are you from Sup Forums and purposedly false-flagging so that I will identify all those who are against Sup Forums as brainless morons? Pls stop.

>gets tricked into admitting he's "not very bright and from there already"
>even misuses the word "projecting" which is the reddest of red flags for an alt right abortion

Your containment board is the lowest average IQ group on the internet. Go back.

>complains about the misuse of words and calls me not very bright
>writes "reddest" "alt right"
how about you learn how to speak English before casting doubt on the intelligence of other people?

>Your containment board is the lowest average IQ group on the internet. Go back.
I am not from Sup Forums. I guess when you don't have any argument and your brain is not developed enough to formulate one, it's a lot easier to just mindlessly accuse someone smarter than you of being from a place that has different opinions from yourself.
I don't know what the IQ of people from Sup Forums is, but yours is most definitely not very high.
I think that settles it user, may you find peace of mind and soul.