Why do some so called "leftists" defend the EU, when the EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bureaucratic state?

Why do some so called "leftists" defend the EU, when the EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bureaucratic state?

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Because they are deluded.

they're stupid

Because the EU is anti-nationalism

Immigration. When they see that the Brexiters are anti-immigration they think "These guys must be racists, so I must oppose them!" and therefore are pro-EU.

>Because the EU is anti-nationalism

Isn't European a nationalism?

Low intelligence with too much oppion

...

It's because they believe in revolution,

Remember Marx? Wasn't he saying basically that things have to get shit before society collapses and communism comes?
I think that's what the Left are hoping for. It doesn't matter that the EU is capitalist neo-liberal whatever, because communism comes from revolution.

I've come to the conclusion that it has to be that most just do not actually think, and would rather follow authority. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.

blind unity is our strength

EU lets in the shitskins and undermines nationalism

They are not socialist but liberals???

>capitalist
more like commie

Because 'lefists' are frauds.

They're actually neoliberal upper middle class professionals who take positions that they take because of the economic advantages they gain from 'liberalizing' everything, while getting to feel superior to the 'racist' poor whose neighborhoods the policies they support are destroyed.

They used to fancy themselves defenders of the working class, but in truth they have total contempt for them.

Leftists are basically ultimately a bunch of cripplingly false creeps who deserve to die.

>They are not socialist but liberals???

Are liberals "left?" What is the "left?"

>more like commie

Burger GTFO

Don't worry Europe! I will save you!

no. hitler and napoleon tried to extend their national culture across europe but it failed. you cant just create a nation out of thin air and the EU doesnt have any plans to do that, like all globalist institutions it wants to destroy and grind up all culture around it and rule over the mess left behind

No

I remember the left being traditionally anti-EU since they favored isolationism.

All it took was for SJWs to overrun them. Now the EU is the glue that holds this refugee train together, so the left has to be pro-EU.

Here's a leftist who opposes EU.

youtube.com/watch?v=cmulu-xmbwU
youtube.com/watch?v=cmulu-xmbwU
youtube.com/watch?v=cmulu-xmbwU

Exactly this. Every fucking word of it.

It's snobbery.

But because they've burnt down art, religion and culture there's nothing left to demonstrate their superiority over the chav scum.

So they manufacture life and death moral struggles over everything the chav scum say or do.

I'm a rightwing voter but I love the EU. Not this retarded refugee shit but all the trade shit we have accomplished. My family has been able to hire cheap polish labour for almost no money at all so that we can spend our money on other goods aswell. Besides eating ecologically cheap food is just amazing here in Sweden.
>inb4 mad americans are gonna hate

Because they hate themselves, their own culture, their inherited identity, so they love something that seeks to take it all away. It's also why they invent new genders and buy into anything that marks them as different, and why they suck African and Muslim cock no matter what.

In short, they are retarded.

I've watched a few videos where they interview these young remain-voters, who self-identify as leftists.

Even when the economic argument is easily employed on their side, they go no further than labeling the leave-movement as racist.

And when asked why it's racist, their almost non-existent logic algorithm explodes and emotionally charged attack ensues.

How dare you question that my enemies are racist?
How dare you question white men are inherently racist?
How dare you question ideas shared by my many friends on social media?
Look, he disagrees with me! We need some muscle over here!

These are the people who are supposedly against fascism, but they are the same people Goebbels couldn't have loved more as his audience : Group thinkers.

Being a sheep is one thing, but making a cult out of it often spells death of nation.

Anyways I am very glad leave vote won.

Leftist here. You are absolutely right, and I don't defend the EU. It's a mortal trap that is fucking up all the countries that have fallen into it one by one.

I take every opportunity I have to explain why it's bad to my leftist friends, but only get sympathy from right-wing minded friends (I only have a couple).

In the end it's not a matter of ideology. Anyone with half a brain can come to the conclusion that we should have never gotten in here in the first place. Our economies are fucked, we don't have control of our currencies, and we don't have the ability to vote out the people who are effectively ruling our lives now. The national governments are irrelevant now...

They bought in the meme propaganda they were bombarded with from elementary school to college.

because if the right wings are against it, it must be good!

Capitalism isn't exclusively a tool of the left or the right.

The left wants to dismantle all folk cultures and make the state the new source of tradition, values and moral authority. They want a global shopping mall, basically. If a capitalist entity can give marxists leverage to do this then they'll use it.

Also this. It's now hip to be a leftist, but most people are just stupid, same as always. And they will keep following the trend wherever it takes them.

They're are effectively household animals. And shouldn't be allowed to vote. I can respect a right wing ideology even when I don't agree with it, but I can't respect someone who is unable to reason their ideology at all, whatever the sign.

did rustle change up his art?

EU was a good idea DESU. It died when germans took over leadership (roughly during Sarkozy).

We needed more democratic reforms (instead of a cunt enforcing everything, i.e. Germany), more solidarity (obviously Germany has never been in their life), ...

Still cant understand how many people think the eu is a good thing to be in if your country isnt poor as fuck

Because neo conservatives want the piece neo liberals are currently getting.

The rethoric between nationalists and liberals is the exaact same just exchange the word market with patriotism/culture and there you go.

because its not really, they're in it for the marxist utopia. but they hate it for the globalisation which they blame for global capitalism.

The main problem with modern leftism is that it exists in an echo chamber. Mass media, academia and mainstream culture is largely left wing, and most students never actually have to confront other ideas because they spend their lives being passed from one blanket to another. When they're actually challenged they explode because they don't realise anyone could actually disagree with them. Why would they? Nobody ever has before! But this is the real world, and these people will have to deal with the fact that sometimes they will lose.

>My family has been able to hire cheap polish labour for almost no money at all
well its good for you but not the swedish people

I notice the brexit has expose the class war within the leftwing which has divided across left and right(of the leftwing) The right want out and the left want in.

My friend, it's the capital, mainly the IMF and the ECB who are "enforcing everything". Germany was just the political façade that allowed them to (a bank can't enact laws, yet).

They used the same strategy with South America: first ensnare them in debt, then use it as leverage to buy their companies, change their laws to your benefit and don't mind crippling them. Local rulers finished the job while they came to Europe. They're now feasting on us and once we're about to implode they will leave for greener pastures (the US? I don't know).

Large scale democracy does not exist. We live in a disguised feudal oligarchy.

You can just post it once you know

Don’t mix everything stupidly. Capitalism isn’t a bad thing.
The main problems with EU are:
- Nations lose their sovereignty and their power of decision (EU decide for everyone).
- Impose massive immigration.

National socialist/trade unionist are the rightwing faction of THE LEFTWING you also have the conservationist/hippie types who are pro union but are located in the left faction of the LEFTWING

If your country is poor as fuck you get benefits but on the other hands you don't have the tools to recover, so you'll be basically dependent on the EU forever (Greece, Spain).

If your country is better off, you get cheap labor from these other countries, but at the same time you risk being leeched off.

Supranational economic entities, on the other hand, have a pretty huge market to play with, with very little to no taxes and no political responsibilities. No sane party in any country should be supporting the EU as it stands.

The IMF and The ECB are a socialist economic entity not capitalists.

It's only our responsability to make it. I hope the next revolution is about that. We have the tools (information technology) and the modern countries have enough cultured/knowledgeable people to actually create a form of democracy based on a meritocratic system.

Whatever label pleases you, I don't care. You can call them Marxists if you are too afraid your "team"'s name will get sullied. The important thing is the damage they are doing and that they should be removed.

Because destroying the White race through mass 3rd world immigration is more important to them than economics.

Oikophobia is what motivates them, not economics.

Oiks

As long as polarization is a thing, there's little hope. In this very board everyone will start barking the moment they hear anything having to do with "the left" or the moment they sense you're not on their team.

See >Oh, he's saying something that makes sens... WAIT A MINUTE! Don't you dare speak wrong of capitalism!

And that's pretty much human nature, so I don't think we can be saved.

I for one welcome our Illuminati overlords.

Left to conservatives. Right to socialists.

because their cuckold fetishes are more important than any other economic principle, obviously.
racism have been invoked to the point where they think its only about the borders.

yes, the left is retarded enough to fall for the jewish smokescreen.

Same reason "Antifa" are now defending big corporations and asking the government to take away people's rights, and liberals are being lured into voting for Hillary. Leftists are being jerked around hard by identity politics. It's been hammered into their heads that racism and xenophobia are the greatest issues of our time and must be stamped out at all costs, even if that means supporting people and institutions that even just a year ago they would have wholeheartedly condemned. They're so far gone that don't even realize how far the wool has been pulled over their eyes.

Yeah. The right vs left meme needs to die. This is complete bullshit. You want some right and some left for the best policies. I mean freedom to create things and pursue your goals is obviously important, but how isn't ensuring your people who are having difficulties get back on their feet as important.

Things are much deeper and much more important than right vs left. People on this board are literally playing in the hands of the jews shouting and arguing "you're a commie !", or "you globalist shit", when the issues at hand aren't even about that. Just, what should be a modern democracy is something that concerns every motherfucker in here.

The EU is just like any representative democratic institution, it is whatever the people make it.
It's more democratic than national government anyway.

>Mass youth unemployment across the EU
>The youth want to remain

Employment is a thing of the past.
As Karl Marx said, technology will free us from wage slavery.

>It's more democratic than national government anyway.

A commie here
I hate EU but brexit is not a revolution.
It's keeping the working class blind

they are marxist and you know it...you think being an anarchist makes you above all this? in fact you are irrelevant in all of it.

Because people enslaved to their emotions are blind to the universe.

You were shafted by the right faction of the leftwing comrade.

It's exactly the opposite. The leftists that support the EU are social democrats, who are basically non-revolutionary leftists.

Actual leftists, i.e. socialists and communists, have been anti-EU literally for the last 100 years.

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/aug/23.htm

>It is for these reasons and after repeated discussions at the conference of R,S.D.L.P. groups abroad, and following that conference, that the Central Organ’s editors have come to the conclusion that the slogan for a United States of Europe is an erroneous one.

That's true. Our commies here push for EU explosion every day of their life.

Champagne socialists, limousine liberals.

Because they're not leftist. They're just young and stupid, and while in the past, the young and stupid followed Marx, the young and stupid of today follow Brussels.

*hugs multiculturaly* (no homo, no multi)

I'm all for cooperation, but this shit needs to end. How are we supposed to do anything with this country if the people deciding our policies are beyond our electoral reach? PP, PSOE, Cs, even Podemos. They all have to and will abide to the ECB's mandates when it comes to it. See Greece for reference. We need to get out of the EU. We need to have our own currency to devaluate, and we need to be able to decide what to do with our public services and our budget based only on the needs of the people actually paying it (national citizens, not the whole of the EU).

Now we can argue if an immigrant deserves to be a citizen (I think they do, as long as they behave like one, skin color is irrelevant to me). But arguing about the EU as it is currently implemented makes no sense.

Not actually.
Brexit is bourgeois agenda, working class people has been used as pawns to solve the contradictions between the national enterprises that want an easy way to deal with expansion and the interest of enterprises that have been already established and want security

Ewww multiculti. With a spaniard it's ok though, not so multi.

If you want I explained my thoughts a bit more in this post in another thread

Anarchist me? lol

Well, I honestly don't know. Are the views I expressed so far Anarchist? So be it. I don't care for what you wish to call me. Do you agree with the fact that those entities are doing more damage than good at the moment or not? That's the important issue here, because they rely in you and me arguing over labels all day instead of setting them in fire in their sleep.

Don't compare our situation with UK's situation.
It has nothing to do

Jesus Christ the left in my country is being consumed by mental diarrhea and fedora complexes. Stalin save us all.

I'm off to have lunch. Cheers.

Because uninformed people define themselves by what they oppose rather than what they believe in. Leftist students will take any ideological stance that pisses off their dad.

Also leftists are typically educated middle-class snobs that sneer at the working classes that are getting fucked over with depressed wages and competition from poorer European workers.

Nicely said.

Muh freedom is a better analysis, of course

>Why do some so called "leftists" defend the EU, when the EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bureaucratic state?

Because the EU is against nationalism. They are trying to use the EU as an instrument to destroy the national identities.
In addition to that, importing millions of third worlders with an alien culture will erode the national cultures of the european societies.
Finally with those confused, unhappy and deracinated masses they will try to start a socialist world revolution.

You have to understand that there are two kinds of globalists
1. the capitalistic neoliberals
2. the socialists/communists
For both the nation state is an enemy they have to destroy to realize their final goal

>they will try to start a socialist world revolution.
That's not really the case.

>Why lefties defend neo-liberal paradise
Because socialist, as strangely as it is have become N#1 New Liberal movement, looking to get an all authoritarian world government consisting of company executives. In addition they like to suck the dick of elites and despice workers.

There are different sorts of lefties. In broad terms we can talk about leftists who are concenred with class politics, and leftists who are concerned with identity politics. The former is generally against the EU, the latter vice versa.

>Why do some so called "leftists" defend the EU, when the EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bureaucratic state?

Because the EU has the best food safety regulations in the world, further a lot of Leftists like traveling and traveling without having to deal with borders or your passport is a lot easier.

Finally most Leftists are internationalists and ultimately want one government for all people which works for the benefit of all.

>Because the EU is anti-nationalism
>Isn't European a nationalism?
Because the EU is anti nationalist
Isn't Europe a nation or Isn't Europe nationalistic.

Fuck you retards, learn the English language you dumb fucks

>That's not really the case.

A completely egalitarian world is the final utopian goal of the marxists.
For that they have to destroy everything that divides people into "us vs them", so they need a unified world.
Thus a socialist world revolution is required for them to achive their goal.
I know that the darwinist nature of our world makes their agenda completely unrealistic but leftists have always been delusional.

>Because socialist, as strangely as it is have become N#1 New Liberal movement, looking to get an all authoritarian world government consisting of company executives. In addition they like to suck the dick of elites and despice workers.
Because socialism, as strange as it is, has become the Number 1 new liberal movement, hoping/seeking an authoritiarian world government composed of company executives. Further they like to suck the dick of elites and despise workers.

Fucking idiot, learn English you dumb fuck

My theory is that plebians are able to organize more effectively so shit gets crazier in general.

...

I've got literal self-proclaimed anarchists telling me I fucked up for voting leave, try figuring that one out.

Because it promotes rapefugees and funds colleges to promote it's cancerous ideals that selling your country for a small profit is a good thing.

because they're a bunch of suburban kids who's idea of 'anarchy' is not having to pay their student loans back?