Just saw this in the cinema that they're showing before they release the live-action film. And apart from nostalgia from watching it on VHS all those years ago, nice visuals and a decent soundtrack, this does not hold up well.
A paper thin plot, one dimensional characters that speak mostly in monotone and nothing much else.
The characters do not have real conversations with each other, they literally have one-sided conversations just raising philosophical points without exploring them. There's a point in the film, where the Major is on a boat spouting some inane point where the angle changes to her talking AT you. That's what the entire film feels like, someone just talking at you. The plot is just background for the writer to spew his underdeveloped thesis at you.
How did this get 94% on RT? (Though I suppose it was pretty unique at the time and we were getting manga films at a glacial rate.)
(I also saw the Akira remaster in the cinema as well, and it still holds up and justifies it's presence on the big screen both through sound and visuals. GitSs just felt like I was watching it on a bigger screen.)
The live-action film has a really low bar to get over. I'm not so worried now.
Evan Hall
you just don't have good taste.
Adam Morales
>The characters do not have real conversations with each other, they literally have one-sided conversations just raising philosophical points without exploring them. There's a point in the film, where the Major is on a boat spouting some inane point where the angle changes to her talking AT you. That's what the entire film feels like, someone just talking at you. The plot is just background for the writer to spew his underdeveloped thesis at you.
Yeah, that was my feeling about it too.
It's all very well and good having a character talking to me about existential crisis, but if I haven't developed any kind of affinity for them through their deeds and personality, then why should I give a shit about these thoughts of theirs?
Brody Edwards
It was a big step in animation at the very least. Surely you can appreciate that.
Luis Martinez
you're kind of a pleb but i will admit that the boat scene (which unfortunately iirc follows that kino tier diving sequence) is probably the worst scene in the movie and endemic of the entry-level philosophy in exposition problem this movie kind of has
if thats all you can see then i truely feel sorry for you, you sound like a plotbabby and it was pretty obvious to me that the characters were intentionally one dimensional, as a tool to juxtapose and more easily (and for better or for worse) define certain thematic elements
im not surprised that you would use this type of argument, but to then "justify" akira based on the sound and visuals in the same post is fucking embarrassing
you have to go back
Oliver Phillips
Question about the boat scene, they're drinking alcohol but I thought the Major's body was practically 100% machine?
Benjamin Green
>The characters do not have real conversations with each other, they literally have one-sided conversations just raising philosophical points without exploring them. There's a point in the film, where the Major is on a boat spouting some inane point where the angle changes to her talking AT you. That's what the entire film feels like, someone just talking at you You just don't get it, that's the aesthetic. Innocence did that even better. Innocence is really underappreciated tbqhdesu
Jonathan Parker
>Surely you can appreciate that.
I do.
>plotbabby
So a good plot and characters are not essential to a good film? Wat?
>im not surprised that you would use this type of argument, but to then "justify" akira based on the sound and visuals in the same post is fucking embarrassing
You're an embarrassment if you don't think that Akira had brilliant visuals and soundtrack AND a good story with likeable characters.
Easton Bailey
Well it brings up some easy to digest questions that normies would never have otherwise been exposed to in such a clear and effective way.
This movie simply isn't for your average user who spends the majority of his time living in his head and asking these same kinds of questions.
Its for people who like flashy and or artsy images that they can then post on facebook and act superior with.
Its a poor mans Stalker in the same sense that both present the audience with things that "really make you think, huh?".
Its just that one is based on a well thought out novel with one of the greatest directors and cinematographers of all time and the other is based on a half assed nipmade hentai comic and a director trying to grab hold of whatever decent points that are brought up as if they were a needle in a haystack.
Austin Jenkins
Literally an excuse to start a one-sided conversation about how their bodies can break down alcohol and keep them sober and to get to the next philosophical point.
Josiah Price
>half assed nipmade hentai comic
He makes hentai with horses and women.
Cooper Young
What did the ending mean? What did fusing have to do with identity? Where they saying they would keep their identities, they would have a new identity, or identity doesn't matter?
Aaron Bennett
I just watched it too. Maybe we were in the same cinema :o
Jeremiah Stewart
It's weird that the guy that made GiTS also made Dominion Tank Police.
Evan Powell
West India Quay?
Jaxson Nguyen
>>plotbabby >So a good plot and characters are not essential to a good film?
Characters certainly are extremely important but a plot, not necessarily so much.
Alexander James
I feel like his mind wanders while he's masturbating.
The puma sisters are pretty cool characters.
Josiah Hernandez
Stand Alone Complex was better
Daniel Robinson
>good characters are essential Well, they failed on that account. There's literally one point I felt any attachment to the characters and it was when Batou comes to rescue the Major. It was the only point where it felt there was something at stake.
Matthew Morris
I vaguely remember hating for it's cheap animation, infodumps in the vein the of the movie and the fact it had a weirdly jingoistic(?) undercurrent running through especially when america was concerned. Like they forget their role in WW2.
Dominic Cook
Same, the philosophical mumbo jumbo was what really brought it down for me When you compare it to something like Akira, it doesn't even manage to create the loosest of emotional connections. Where in Akira you have the entire emotional backbone of the movie supported by Tetsuo's unravelling and the nature of his relationship with Kaneda and the world, the best you get in Ghost in the Shell is that Batou genuinely cares about the Major and wants her to be safe despite the fact that she's an autistic robot who doesn't value her own life It has good animation in it's few action scenes, and overall is very nicely presented, but I don't see what it was that made it become this massively popular movie other than the fact that people want to fuck Motoko and dude cyberpunk lmao
Nathaniel Rodriguez
The manga is closer to Appleseed and Dominion, it's Oshii and his influence that added all of the heavy philosophy.
Shirow makes a lot of porn these days.
Noah Roberts
>but I don't see what it was that made it become this massively popular movie other than the fact that people want to fuck Motoko and dude cyberpunk lmao
I don't know you if remember the utter lack of anime in the 90s and the handful that used to get passed round on VHS tapes, sometimes recorded off channel 4 in the morning.
It's mostly nostalgia.
Asher Reyes
Not very good ones I may add.
His manga sex scenes are better.
Andrew Reyes
>Shirow makes a lot of porn these days.
Weirdly racist AND cuck-ish porn.
Jordan Lee
This too. You GitS, AKIRA, Ninja Scroll, and a few others were the top things people even had access to.
Ayden Scott
Pls help
Luke Thompson
Which of you guys were at cineworld today?
I want some Sup Forums friends, I was only able to convince 2 normie friends to come.
Hudson Long
who /avalon/ here?
Landon Gomez
I don't know what that means
Luke Mitchell
dude
dude
its a bit clunky and kind of a mess and the american/miramax version is kind of a fucking disaster but still.. dude. .
Landon Harris
>no streamline dub
Disappointed.
Brayden Evans
>2001 cannes I'll take a look.
Jace Hughes
Are you a UKfag or an amerifat?
Curious to know what was avaliable in the US compared to the UK.
Elijah Long
They're bio mechanical, and in universe there is cyborg food, so I imagine that's cyborg beer.
Joseph Turner
Liam
Jonathan Robinson
Err, are you trying to guess who posted the thread?
Hudson Sanders
Yes.
Aiden Clark
user it was a new form of reproduction, a creation of beings of pure information that were a merging of the Major and the AI's consciousness. They created ghosts WITHOUT shells, ya dig? The merging of the major and project 2501 was their mating that let them create their offspring that were released into the net. The Major+ that batou puts in the loli's body is a different person, but retains all of the major's memories.
Zachary Williams
Well, you got it wrong.
Were you the older dudes in suits at the top or the two fats dudes near middle?
Dominic Wood
>cuck-ish porn. God damnit, when nips do it, it's called NTR!
Adrian Butler
That's because it was directed by the biggest hack anime director of all time Watch Patlabor 2 if you want to see more pretentious BS
Thomas Nguyen
Yep, and Japan is 98.5% Yamato Japanese, so a little cucking here and here can't really do much.
Connor Campbell
I will since I have a certain affinity to 90s anime, even if it is pretentious bs.
Andrew Parker
Call me Qui Gon.
Connor Bailey
I dont fucking know, my mate Liam went to see this film a few hours ago and he goes on Sup Forums. Seemed to add up, maybe you still are him.
Ayyy coynee
Zachary Powell
Are you guys like the anons I imagine? Greasy and fat/skeley?
Easton Wood
>A paper thin plot full retard confirmed. not even going to bother reading the rest of your brain diarrhea.
Luke Adams
*PAAAARRRRRPPPP
Henry Myers
I blame a lot of it on the nuance of the 2deep4u dialogue being lost in translation. I used to work for a tv channel in asia, basically transcribing english programming into text, and then handing that off to someone who translated my document into chinese. I can personally validate that you begin to paraphrase and edit the actual dialogue to make it look better on the page. Then I give it to someone else, who's less bilingual than you, and they take your gobbeldy-gook and it passes through another person. It's like a game of chinese whispers, but with entire narratives.
Asher Gray
Why don't you turn around and find out.
Gabriel Foster
Uh, SAC had really good animation. 2nd gig was where it was at though. Plus the Japanese had just gotten through two wars unscathed and the US was literally broken up into three powers after being fucked in the third world war, with one being run by the Russians and another being an empire. The Japanese came out of the wars as a massive superpower.
Isaiah Diaz
>fantasy world
It would explain the constant repeats on 8 out of 10 cats I keep seeing every night.
While there is something to be said about accurate translation, I don't think it can be blamed on here.
Hudson Scott
>The Japanese came out of the wars as a massive superpower
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Gavin Turner
The way you describe it doesnt necessarily make it bad. There are a lot of movies that do weird shit, like characters that stand still, and dont move until their lines are to be spoken.
The voice acting in Ghost did suck tho
Andrew Young
>The Japanese came out of the wars as a massive superpower
They still have dreams of winning World War 2.
Cameron Baker
when did a movie end up like the anime?
Hunter Rivera
It's true though. They were neutral in WW3 and remained largely unaffected, and sent peacekeepers who largely remained in base in the Second Korean War. Not only that, they have a monopoly on the Japanese Miracle which is a huge boost to their economy
Ayden Smith
The problem was they didn't have anything interesting to say. Just entry-level points without adding to them.
Christopher Roberts
I think you misunderstood me, I'm saying it's funny that the Japanese (anime and manga artists) still dream of a world in which they are a world superpower.
Jose Parker
I guess I just mean in general, because any anime that anyone's ever tried to sell as deep comes off as just so surface level and text book, while at the same time showing really competent visual narrative makes me think that they can't all be plebs. Plus asian languages have a lot of linguistic drift over the millennia from the languages most of us as westerners think in, so the information is parceled slightly differently. I mean grammar and syntax convey more meaning to what you're saying than even the words themselves. For a lot of things there aren't necessarily one-to-one corollaries between languages. I could completely understand how anything discussing something like neuroscience and metaphysics would just get shit to pieces.
Isaiah Sanchez
Well no shit dude. They have pride as a race of people, they're not going to make all their stories and personal narratives about being constantly cucked by nature all the time forever. Not to mention that in the 70' and 80's it was accepted as a forgone conclusion in the west that eventually Japan would just end up owning everything and dragging the rest of the world into their cyberpunk nightmare future of blazing neon and squeaky pop music. And the world building is pretty cool.
Ryder Wright
It's not an uncommon thing for art forms to be nationalist lmao
Jaxson Rogers
I think Akira is able to convey it's message clear enough and that's considering the dub.
This was the original dub with subtitles, like even if the translation was perfect, it's still characters practically reading off a page of a thesis. There's no real back and forth between the characters, everyone just shuts up while the character goes on a monolouge about metaphysics.
Hell, even the series there's a scene in the series there spouting off philosophy while exchanging gunfire.
Daniel Perez
It was written in the late 80s.
Oliver Jones
The film was made in the 90s, IIRC their economic bubble had burst or something.
Jordan Phillips
that world still sounds worlds better than the shit we got
Jonathan Miller
Just change the nips for the chinks. They're cheaper anyway.
Isaiah Turner
>blade runner monotounous and flashy >goat >GitS monotonous and flashy >shit
Yeah you guys can fuck right off
Caleb Williams
What's the next anime film in cinema for "mature" audiences in the UK?
Jose Taylor
blade runner has characters with depth and a decent plot
Adrian Parker
>A paper thin plot Life has to be difficult being this dense. But hey little buddy, at least you probably can get a job under those programs that hire special people like you.
Charles Williams
Its the exact same movie troglodyte
Isaac Watson
And? Do you think that would make them more or less likely to create a fantasy future where they emerge from the ashes of global war as a leader because of their industry and lessons learned from the past.
Jonathan Peterson
I was going to enlighten you but you are cancer and do not deserve it.
Robert Cruz
>Sameposting
I find it a bit funny that they kind of shit on america like that after being bombed into submission.
But you're right I guess.
Nathan Gutierrez
they mention that their bodies can still get drunk, as they're still biomechnical, but because their tech is so great, they can drink on the job without problems because their bodies can just metabolize the alcohol in seconds on command.
Nolan Harris
please stop, friendo. All this must be real hard for you. It's clear that you don't understand how or what is sameposting and you shouldn't care. Everything will be fine, you can work at a mcdonalds like the token special kid if you need to.
Jordan Long
They don't really shit on it, the political landscape of the world is completely different. There was at least a limited exchange nuclear war and the japanese invented nanomachines that "ate" radiation, called "the japanese miracle." Since they had exclusivity to it they were in a position to become a major power, and due to the isolation of japan itself, they managed to come out of it pretty well. After the nuclear war, there was a non nuclear world war that was more or less the Americas balkanizing, and russia establishing a hegemony in europe. But despite all of that, they still keep the Japanese SDF around, so there's some kind of respect showed.
Jeremiah Parker
Thank you Japan
Henry Morales
would you like for us to post using less words?
Anthony Moore
y
Kayden Barnes
Cool
Liam Peterson
>dat nip hooker wear for female characters
Never understood why nip games/anime have girls in fetish hooker costumes yet no character notices it. Or if they do notice, the just act like socially retarded teens despite being grown ass adults.
Grayson Clark
>it was accepted as a forgone conclusion in the west that eventually Japan would just end up owning everything and dragging the rest of the world into their cyberpunk nightmare future of blazing neon and squeaky pop music
It's so weird how they have fallen from this. Like, Nips literally don't use Personal Computers any more than they have too because PCs became associated with erotic visual novel games and so their technology has stagnated and now even their phones are no more advanced than ours are.
Lincoln Ward
>It's so weird how they have fallen from this.
Not really, but I guess someone who has a lot more knowledge on geopolitics could tell you why.
>and so their technology has stagnated and now even their phones are no more advanced than ours are.
TV documentries still give off that vibe of futuristic tech.
Michael Moore
its obvious it doesnt hold up If it was some sort of kino film, an american studio wouldnt never even consider adapting it in live action for an american audience -- if they do stuff like that, it just goes to show how mediocre and relatively accessible the original material is. 100% agree with your points.
Colton Price
>people want to fuck Motoko and dude cyberpunk lmao
Accurate
Cooper Bennett
Yeah, did you drink my water?
Austin Walker
Aside from the studio ghibli films and the odd acclaimed anime where else can you see anime films in regular theatres?
Hudson Turner
He put his cock in it.
Cameron Cruz
>The characters do not have real conversations with each other, they literally have one-sided conversations just raising philosophical points without exploring them. There's a point in the film, where the Major is on a boat spouting some inane point where the angle changes to her talking AT you. How was the movie's version any different though?
Noah Hall
>How was the movie's version any different though?
Different from what? The series?
Lincoln Thompson
Ghost in The Shell is a poor imitation of Blade Runner. Let's be honest here. GITS had poor dialogue only to be filled with philosophical monologues. Blade Runner did all that android stuff in a way more stylish presentation.
Jack Williams
the original movie I meant
Jonathan Lopez
If you want cyberpunk, read Neuromancer (it's a relatively short novel) for the plot and then watch Blade Runner because you'll want more of the aesthetic Spend half a day or so thinking about the two and come to the realisation that you've seen everything there is to see in the cyberpunk genre and move on
Jackson Ramirez
I am talking about the original movie.
(They're showing it before the live-action adaptation opens. Re-watching the original movie just reminds of how little substance it has, and I'm sure the live-action version can't be much worse in terms of plot and character.)