A better version of Islam?

So Islam, obviously a major problem in the west as it goes against all fundamentals of democracy. And sandniggers bring in their shit ideologies into the west also. But those are mostly sunni muslims. I wanna know what Sup Forums thinks of Sufism. Is it just peaceful Islam or is it something better? Is it what Islam should be like? Especially since more and more "moderate" muslims are changing over as they realise their book is outdated. Is it a truly better version of islam?

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youtube.com/watch?v=TQYMYk7yJ7o
youtube.com/watch?v=Dqta0nADKso
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muʿtazila
sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh1/bh1_62.htm
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>moderate Muslim meme

The only islam that might be peaceful is the Ahmadiyyas or bahais. But they aren't considered muslim by any other muslims.

Islam needs a reform, a new testament of sorts, but that won't happen because most muslims think islam is perfect by definition.

no muslim considers other muslims as real muslims. they´re all retarded

I never said anything about the moderate muslim meme. I know all muslims are extremist because they follow a shit book. Im talking about those moderates switching to sufism. Which is regarded as more peaceful.

Well i know plenty of former muslims who hate it. They've reformed themselves and structured the religion accordingly. Again their family think their heretics.

don't forget the rumists and yunus emre sufism

As a citizen of a Muslim country and secretly not religious(because they are violent) i advise you to stop letting them immigrate and all religions are bad

>russia
>complaining about others
fuckoff sub human

>and all religions are bad meme
nigga humanity in general are bad

What was that baguette? I cant hear you over Germany continuing to fuck you in the ass as they've always done. Also how's paris looking? Moscows great. We dont let the niggers rule us here.

You could easily get rid of the hadith. None of the arguments against Quranism seem to hold much merit.

However, the Quran, while not as bad as the hadith, still has a lot of terrible shit in it, so that won't solve the problem entirely.

pisslam will not exist anywhere in the future

Sorry, Turkroach.
You have to speak a better English, for me to understand you.

Thanks for Freddie Mercury.

Not sure what else Tuni has brought to the USA.

Probably some hotties with bronze skin.

>I have no idea.

>Tunisia
Receiving baguettes in your ass much?

No man. Christianity is the one dying out. Muslims cant die as the older generation forces the new one to be muslim. Unlike what christians do. Christians are out.

>Germany
Receiving refugee dick much ? i'm sure Merkell is

The only thing that keeps the kind of Muslim we are talking about from murdering you in broad daylight is belonging, with perfect rectitude, understandable to him, to the exact same same sect -- so not only must you belong to his subgroup, not only must you do everything right, but your good behavior must be understandable to a inbred 70-IQ Arab.

Sheeeit.

Well the kind of muslim im talking about does not believe in the fundamentals of violence and committing it would lead to them being taken back on their path to enlightenment. Plus they are not just a sect of islam, they've by all accounts, existed for a while before and have a belief in the bible, really any monotheist religion. So yea, i think they're pretty different.

This

What about Sikhism?

Sikhism isn't related to Islam, i dont think atleast.

>sufism
they dance a lot and shout their zikr shit. watch the video
youtube.com/watch?v=TQYMYk7yJ7o
youtube.com/watch?v=Dqta0nADKso

I don't know what it is, they say they somehow become enlighten by it

That isn't Islam. They believe in one god and Reincarnation, and are based at the border b/w India and Pakistan. They're hated by Hindus and Muslims on either side, but they're pretty cool.

Their beliefs are fairly similar in many aspects, but different in a lot of ways, and they hate each other.

Sikhs are like the anti-muslims.

Its a warrior religion that has fought against Islam for centuries. They're generally okay.

theres also Muʿtazila?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muʿtazila

Yea dancing of that kind is very important. Its supposed to direct them towards god and its a sort of meditation. I can understand it.

Aren't Sufis shunned by other Muslims. Sunnis ans Shiites hate them even more than each other b/c of their mysticism. They're pretty peaceful though; I've never heard of any sort of terror attack that came from a Sufi group.

Thats less a branch of islam, its more a school of thought.

They're sort of like a cross b/w Islam and Hinduism, but are officially unrelated.

Sufi mysticism is the most joyful, positive god-loving, spiritually healthy form of monotheism I know. It's also quite abstract, pretty complicated and not at all suited to most arabs. A serious sufi has more in common with a hardcore hassidic jew or orthodox christian than any of those three have with modern, semi-secular, politicized versions of those faiths.

the inimitable Rumi is pretty chill

when was the last time you span round in a circle for more than a minute, I bet you haven't done it seince you were a kid, ever wonder why kids do that? try now you might surprise yourself, it is like getting a little bit high (right arm raised upward to receives gods blessing, left arm turned downward to the earth)

Yea. Thats why i'd like to see Islam in general move more towards them. Just seems like a part of islam i find actually interesting, away from the standard, absolutely horrid dogma.

I watched some documentary about it years ago, it said something about mirrors, about some imam who saw a god in a mirror, god in the world and god in himself. This is very fringe shit, on the verge of bad heresy for many muslims. I don't know how you can convince them all.

there is no fix for islam, it behaves virtually the same as cancer in the human body, just reproducing uncontrollably and wildly spreading around the world. but there is no chemotherapy for this since tolerating islamic cancer is apparently more important to society

Interesting. Oh their the guys that always get stopped because people think their muslim. Fuck thats unfortunate.

The point is not to make them all sufis. Its to take parts of sufism and put it into mainstream islam, and take other parts of the fringe sects and do the same. Make it better overall, it needs a reform badly.

Sufism is great. Its highly esoteric and based on divine love. It has nothing to do with mainstream islam, they have been pretending just like other mystic traditions to avoid getting killed.

Daily reminder: All mainstream religions are control systems

I agree completely. It might start out with some escalated violence, but religions in general get a lot less radical once you chop them into some dozen sects. Christianity hasn't experienced a holy war in more than 4000 years. I America, there are so many different kinds of Christians that they've been forced to learn how to tolerate each other; maybe (just maybe) Muslims can do the same. It's just a thought though.

Not really
Islamists and people who mixes Islam and politics hates us and considers us as kafirs
In the Arab spring they used the chance because of chaos in the country to attack our shrines
Thanks to bonginstan they are the main funder of the Muslim brother hood

It's sad b/c their religion forbids them from taking off their turbans, while Muslims only wear them b/c they look good.

islam doesn not have a centre or authority figure, a pope, a great Khalifa who can start reform. The only place they have in common is the holy Mecca but even if you control Mecca you can't dictate to reform all muslims beliefs, you can't rewrite all the koran in the world.

Yea they have to grow out their hair.

>Christianity
>4000 years
you wot m8?

They consider hair to be a gift from God. The turban protects the hair, and shows politeness to God by not showing him one's exposed head.

I meant 400

Judging from the germans ass pain he probably is a refugee

Islam itself is a peaceful religion but the followers interpret it in a typical sandniggerish kill all infidels way.

They deserved to be nuked.

That is true. But a dune coon out there, somewhere, can get it started. A reformation by the likes of Martin Luther, only in the desert.

I think most Islamic values are okay, but the religion itself is awful.

retarded

Well parts of the Quran openly tell them to wage war against anyone who isn't muslim. They're following their book to the letter up till the modern day. But you can find some though provoking stuff in there, it does get boring rather like the bible at some points.

Not as retarded as believing an animal that God himself made could be an abomination.

Wasn't there something about shellfish in the bible?

Best Islam:
>loli harems are still halal
>Allah and Muhammad are white
>niggers are haram
I think we can all agree on this.

The bible also says bs like "homosexuls should be killed" but the majority of christians don't believe in it.

It simply shows that the followers are the problem, not the religion.

Yeah. I think that all those food prohibitions were the result of environmental determinism: When you live in the desert, pigs and shellfish aren't the safest thing to eat.

Well again, the reformation helped break allot of barriers in the old christian world and people stopped taking the book as literally, they found god in the household and started only using it as a guide. That never happened in the east.

The first Qur'an I bought to get red pilled about Islam was a translation by Ahmadiyya. It literally called your country an evil empire which would fall like the British and the world is in the hands of dark forces in the foreword.

Yeah, you might wanna think about that again.

This. Most Christians have learned that it isn't worth harassing people for religious purposes; also, Christianity puts emphasis on forgiving people.

then:

>make nuke
>throw nuke in east
>??????
profit

>Again their family think their heretics.

You might know a lot of people who will be dead soon then.

Muhammad was White, you can find descriptions of him in the Qur'an describing him having pale white skin and him being called a White man with a reddish complexion.

As for niggers, unfortunately Islam seems pretty big on racial equality. Any Muslims here know if racism could be justified by Islam? I've never seen any Islamic group do it, but I'm curious. Are there any racist hadiths/Quranic verses?

America is mentioned in the Qur'an?

the U.S.A. in mentioned in the Quran?

It is all corrupted. For example there are 2 kinds of jihad in islam. Small jihad is the one you do it in yourself (purifying yourself) and big jihad which is purifying the world (not going around beheading people, helping them find god)

Im not a muslim but i know it better than %99 of them. I believe these religions are for real. Just look at the people The One sent them to:

Kikes
Kikes again
Arabs

If you want to fix the world you would focus on the worst fucking trash wouldnt you?

I know you're joking, but it really isn't that simple. Nuking Mecca would cause the biggest shitstorm in history.

Sufis still venerate Mohammed as the ideal man, he even though was a treacherous, genocidal warlord. Mohammed needs to be completely denounced and demonized as the scumbag he is

islam is the same thing either way

>A better version of Islam?
The only version of Islam that's better is a non-existent one. Islam and its adherents must be erased.

I think your wrong on the whole white thing man.
"The Messenger of Allâh (SAW) was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, of a goodly build. His hair was neither curly nor completely straight. He had a brownish complexion and when he walked he leant forward [walking briskly]."

>implying anyone on here actually supports democracy themselves
>implying abrahamic religions are compatable with democracy

That's not gonna' happen easily.

I wish most Muslims understood that.

The problem with Muslims is that they're Muslim.

>A better version of Islam

Is fucking impossible. Islam was founded by a childraping, slave trading, warmonger.

The earliest Muslims - personally converted and taught by Muhammad - were killers who attacked and conquered every other religious group they came across.

Violent Islam is not a corruption. We're not talking about people 'misinterpretating' their profit or his teachings - Violent Islam is true Islam and violent Muslims are following both the teaching and personal example of the founder of their religion.

>Nuking Mecca would cause the biggest shitstorm in history
boy, i´d love to see that

While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and then said: "Who amongst you is Muhammad?" At that time the Prophet was sitting amongst us (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, "This white man reclining on his arm." The an then addressed him, "O Son of 'Abdul Muttalib."

sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh1/bh1_62.htm

The actual Arabic word was Amaghir or something like that, I don't recall exactly, which means White with a reddish complexion.

There are other verses which refer to him being White, I can find them for you if you like.

they don't really care how bad it is, they just want to kill destroy and mock. In Europe they are teaching children CHILDREN this retardation. The next gen is fucked I blame Germany honestly.

Well treacherous? No. But warlord? Yea. His conquests are dated, and genocide was pretty common in that era. Not to mention most people chose to adopt islam until it was compulsory during the Ummayyids i believe. Eh. He conquered. He's a military man. I dont see why he has to be spat in the dirt.

As bad as it sounds, this guy's right. There is violence deeply ingrained in Islam. Terrorists aren't "misinterpreting" their own doctrines; they're taking literally what mot Muslims try to ignore.

aren't Tatars, who are sunnis, pretty lax in their practise of Islam though? I know Russia has problems with the chechans but I thought the muslims in and around Kazan were pretty normal people. And there is a lot of them.

There is no such thing as good or bad according to sufism (and many other esoteric traditions), they are made up human concepts. If you call something "bad", it means you are saying that god is bad because god is all there is.

Also when something "bad" happens to a sufi, he prays and thanks god for it because a sufi sees it as a chance to improve himself, not an excuse to bitch and whine

You live in a den of sandniggers. There could be one walking outside your house right now. Imagine if the all tuned into explosive, rabid gorillas at the very same time.

Yup i found another translation which backed you up, "The Messenger of Allâh (SAW) was neither extremely tall nor extremely short, rather he was of a medium stature amongst the people. His hair was neither curly nor completely straight, rather inbetween. He did not have a very fleshy face, neither was it completely round, rather it was only slightly so. He was white skinned, having a reddish tinge. His eyes were large with jet black pupils and his lashes, long. His joints were large as was his upper back. He did not have hair all over his body but had a line of fine hair extending from his chest to his navel. When he walked, he would walk briskly as if descending a slope. When he turned, he would turn his whole body and between his two shoulders was the Seal of Prophethood.
He was the Seal of the Prophets, the most giving of hearts, the most truthful of them, the best of them in temperament and the most sociable of them. Whoever unexpectedly saw him would stand in awe of him and whoever accompanied him and got to know him would love him. Those who described him would say, ‘I have never seen anyone, before him or after him, who was comparable to him."

You're a Sufi? Please tell us about you guys.

Reformation got us into years and years of murder and bloodshed. Seperation of religion and political power is where it stopped.

But from that sects like for example the sufis have emerged. Who are ingrained in meditation and peace. Not bad for a religion ingrained in violence. I still think theres hope for islam. Call me naive.

Genocide and conquest may have been common in those times but that doesn't make it acceptable to venerate him as a prophet of god. And IIRC Mohammed broke his treaty with the Meccans and justified it with a flimsy excuse

So what do you think? Wouldn't a White Islam be the most alpha fucking thing on the planet? Whites would never get cucked again. The only thing I don't know is how we can introduce racism in Islam, because the religion seems to be pretty deadset against it.

No. Just no.

But reformation separated the book from normal life. Again people found god in the household rather than from the bible directly. Which allowed for the seperation of church and state to happen in the first place.

Based Tunisia. From your preference for Steyr AUG to your actual "moderate" minority, truly are thou blessed amongst dune coons.

In the foreword the translator wrote who was a member of Ahmadiyya.

What do you mean "no"?
Did Merkel brainwash you people to believe that it's racist to punish rapists, thieves and extremists just because they are muslims?

a watered down version of islam isn't islam

kikes and christfags have been destroying their religion so much to make it suit their depraved ways

99% of people in this thread would go to hell by jewish or christian standards, let alone muslim standards

(inb4 judaism has no hell)