>inb4 muh indian burial ground
What's this movie about? Did Jack sexually molest Danny? Can Jack shine? Can Wendy?
Tbh I kinda feel like the movie would be a lot less interesting if Jack didn't have ESP to some extent. Otherwise, what's the point of the "shining" subplot in the first place?
Other urls found in this thread:
collativelearning.com
twitter.com
Read the book. The movie is a piece of shit anyway.
>being this much of a pleb
The book is shit tier, as is all King. The movie is great for taking a lame book and subverting/disregarding it.
We never went to the moon. Even today we lack the technology.
It's a very very funny movie. It's a very sentimental film. It's a film about America. The ambiguity is exactly that, ambiguous. DEAL WITH IT. What else... it's a really beautiful movie
>the scariest movie ever meme
No
Isn't Poltergeist the one about the Indian burial ground?
I've seen this movie literally decades ago, and I was a teenager, but for what I gathered it was about a guy going mad because of confinement.
When Wendy tells Jack about Danny being strangled by a crazy woman, Jack asks her “Which room was it?” and the scene ends. The question “Which room was it?” is important because cross-symbolism between room locations is absolutely essential to uncovering The Shining’s hidden meanings.
The room 237 scene is the longest, most complex and most psychologically intense of Danny’s psychic episodes. It is a dream sequence that reveals the fundamental subconscious trauma that is the root of all his psychic visions. But to understand room 237 in detail we first need to pay close attention to a different scene – one that is normally disregarded as uninteresting.
In the lobby Danny asks his mother if he can go get his fire engine from his bedroom. His Mother makes him promise not to wake Jack up, but when Danny enters the apartment he finds Jack sat on the bed, looking tired and miserable. Jack gestures for Danny to sit on his knee and Danny approaches with a look of hesitant obedience. A strange conversation then takes place that starts off like a perfectly normal expression of fatherly love, but then Jack makes his weird comment about staying in the hotel “forever and ever”, just as the twins had. Danny then expresses fear of Jack and asks for assurance. Jack reassures Danny that he would never hurt him and the scene ends abruptly with a sudden jolt in the musical score.
To accompany the scene Kubrick chose Bela Bartok’s Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta. This is one of the saddest and most depressing pieces of music I’ve ever heard and is totally at odds with the dialogue.
So what’s this scene really about? Well, in studying the room 237 scenes in detail I noticed a multitude of parallels with this strange fatherly love scene.
It's not really touched on in the movie but in the book, it talks about how the hotel was built on an ancient Native American burial ground in secret which has ties to the mafia, iirc.
How am I a pleb? You're the one who likes a shit movie, and a shit tv show apparently.
The layout of room 237 is very similar to the Torrance apartment. We enter, turn left, pass through a living room then a bedroom and into a bathroom. The slow movement of the camera through room 237 was paralleled when Mr Ullman was showing the Torrance’s around their apartment. Ullman even emphasized the layout, “Living room, bedroom, bathroom.” Jack and Wendy pass through each room, taking a good look around, then enter the bathroom where we see them stood side by side with a mirror on the right wall. This all parallels Jack’s bathroom encounter with a woman in room 237.
Here are some specific parallels between room 237 and the fatherly love scene.
Jack sees a woman sitting in the bath just like Danny saw Jack sat on the bed.
One scene takes place in a bathroom and the other features a wide open bathroom door next to the bed.
Jack sees the woman slowly push the shower curtain aside, and Danny sees Jack hold out his arm in a similar gesture. We see Jack do this as he’s reflected in a mirror, possibly symbolizing the duality of the event, and there is even a curtain draped behind the mirror, as if Jack is symbolically pushing it aside like the shower curtain.
Jack sees a sexual invitation, just as Danny saw a fatherly love invitation.
Jack hesitates then slowly approaches just like Danny did in the fatherly love scene.
In both scenes the characters embrace intimately, but then the parallels stop.
hese aesthetic parallels are too frequent and too specific to be accidental, so I’ll now offer an interpretation that makes sense of both these scenes.
Room 237 doesn’t exist. Its cartoonish décor, just like the surrounding hallways, is a figment of Danny’s imagination. It’s a symbolic representation of the Torrance apartment manifested in a dream sequence. This is why the rooms have a similar layout. It’s also why we see multiple aesthetic parallels with the fatherly love scene.
Does King have a burial grounds fetish? Was he a tomb robber or something? What a hack.
One of the things that makes this so difficult to figure out is that the acceptance of room 237 as a dream sequence requires a change in the film’s narrative structure. But the answer is actually staring us in the face if we pay enough attention to both scenes.
There’s a really bizarre piece of editing. After Jack sees the rotting woman in the mirror he begins staggering out of the room, pursued by the woman with her hands reaching out in a strangling gesture. But this cuts back and forth to the woman lying in the bath tub, slowly sitting up. Remember also that Danny was told by his mother in the lobby not to wake up Jack while getting his fire engine from the bedroom. Have you made the connection yet?
don't worry that guy is fucking stupid, and your digits prove it
Wait... are you saying that the old woman is Wendy?
You wouldn't know kino if it forced you onto the ground and made you eat its braps
No, Danny was strangled by Jack in the fatherly love scene for having woken him up. The conversation in the fatherly love scene was a false reassurance, and Kubrick ended the scene just as Jack was about to turn nasty. This's why the scene featured melancholy music that ended with a sudden jolt as we shifted to the next scene. It’s also why we are shown the rotting woman rising out of the bath tub – it’s a parallel of Jack being woken up in bed.
The dream sequences that followed – being summoned into room 237 by a rolling ball, and Jack’s encounter with the rotting woman – were simply trauma induced nightmares that Danny had after the fatherly love scene. In these dreams Danny is reliving his terrifying ordeal of being strangled and laughed at by his father.
Victims of trauma have a tendency to try and identify with their abuser. And this is what Danny does as his suppressed memory of the event consciously resurfaces through his dreams. He re-interprets the trauma as if he is his own father and externalizes the identity of his abuser as a witch-like fairy tale figure. The transformation of the naked woman from beauty to ugliness, which he sees in the bathroom mirror, is a parallel of his father’s sudden mood switch from loving reassurance to violent aggression.
The scenes of Danny entering room 237 and Jack walking through to encounter the woman in the bathroom both begin with the exact same shot of the apartment door slightly open with the 237 key hanging from the lock.
it's about eternal recurrence, being trapped in an endless loop, repeating the same mistakes over and over again even though you know better, etc. etc.
we and jack are told from the very first scene what jack will do to danny and wendy, but jack disregards it. wendy knows who jack is but lives in denial and stays with him. tony tells danny not to go to the overlook but he can't escape his fate. halloran tells danny not to go in room 237 but danny is compelled to. jack knows what will happen if he drinks but does anyway. the ghosts' anachronistic dress & speech call attention to the fact that they're repeating in death what they did in life decades later and forever. jack and grady have "always been there."
this idea of choosing the wrong thing even though you know better, of being totally deluded and irrational and even self-destructive, is also a big part of eyes wide shut and AI.
if you're so smart tell us what the fuck is with that dude in the bear costume giving head to that other dude
and when wendy sees them they give her a look like, "Hey, do you mind? we're busy here!"
So it wasnt Wendy? So confused
>Did Jack sexually molest Danny?
No. I don't remember if it's covered in the movie, but it's clear in the book that jack used to beat Danny when he was drunk.
>To accompany the scene Kubrick chose Bela Bartok’s Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta. This is one of the saddest and most depressing pieces of music I’ve ever heard and is totally at odds with the dialogue.
AUTISM ALERT WEE-WOO WEE-WOO
he popular interpretation is that the scene is a throwback to a subplot of Stephen King’s book, in which a party guest in a dog costume has a homosexual relationship with one of the hotel’s former owners. The first thing to note is that in the film the guy is dressed in a bear costume instead of a dog costume.
A shift from dog to bear costume doesn’t have any significant effect on the aesthetic scariness of the scene so there must have been some sort of logic at work in Kubrick’s decision. The second obvious factor is that Kubrick has omitted the entire back story associated to the dog costumed man in the book, leaving his audience at a complete loss as to the scene’s meaning.
In researching the film I have found three thematic interpretations of the bear man scene and I believe Kubrick intended all three of these metaphors as part of the subliminal narrative. This chapter will cover the first of those themes.
There are actually several other references in the film to bears. The easiest one to notice is in the scene of Danny talking to the psychiatrist. In the close up of Danny we see that his pillow has a teddy bear face on it. Look carefully at this teddy pillow. Its eyes are similar in design to the floor dials of the gaping mouth elevator, which we’ve already identified as symbolic eyes, and the teddy’s mouth is bright red, which again is similar to the gaping mouth doors of the elevator.
>What's this movie about?
Alcoholism
>Did Jack sexually molest Danny?
No
> Can Jack shine?
A little, not much
>Can Wendy?
Not at all.
>Tbh I kinda feel like the movie would be a lot less interesting if Jack didn't have ESP to some extent
Jack did not have ESP, the spirit of the hotel informed of everything he needed to know.
Danny has been sexually abused by Jack. Here is a piece of evidence which on its own acts as virtual confirmation of this theme. When Ullman and Bill Watson approach Jack in the lobby on Closing Day, Jack is reading a January 1978 issue of Playgirl Magazine.
First of all there’s the obvious homosexual innuendo, but the story titles featured on this particular issue include the following:
INTERVIEW: THE SELLING OF (STARSKY & HUTCH’S) DAVID SOUL
INCEST: Why parents sleep with their children.
HOW TO AVOID A DEAD END AFFAIR.
Of course the caption relating to incest is the one that’s relevant to this chapter, while the Starsky & Hutch caption may be a reference to Jack giving his soul for a drink and the affair caption could be related to Jack’s encounter with the woman in room 237. Notice how Ullman even points his finger at the magazine as if informing us of its significance.
Returning to the comparisons between the bear costumed man scene and Danny talking to the psychiatrist, sexuality is subtly referenced in both scenes. The bear man appears to be giving felatio to the man on the bed, just as the dog man in the book was carrying out a sexual submission role with his partner. The open patch on the bear man’s behind in the film simply adds to the sexual emphasis.
Beat? Like beat off?
>This chapter will cover the first of those themes.
Chapter? whjat are you talking about?
fuck this is all pasta isn't it? why wouldyou be dishonest like this?
>mfw they are making a Doctor Sleep movie
It's so obviously copied from a book that it's hard to consider it dishonest. No reasonable person could think he was writing all that.
I agree. The earth is flat.
He broke his arm if iirc.
rob ager is such a fucking sophist retard holy shit. i would recognize his brand of autistic cinematic illiteracy anywhere
Isn't there a long pasta that goes with this?
As well as Danny’s teddy bear pillow, there are a handful of Winnie the Pooh refs. In the kitchen Halloran asks Wendy, “Your husband introduced you as Winifred. Now are you a Winnie or a Freddie?” A Winnie the Pooh stuffed toy appears in the lobby not far from the black teddy bear that parallels Halloran’s murder. It is also placed next to the column from which Jack launched his axe attack. Note the presence of a ball - a further connection to Halloran's murder as a "ball" or party event. The same stuffed bear is seen sitting on a couch next to Danny’s fire engine and a baseball bat as Danny watches TV in a trance-like state with his mother. Now here’s where things start getting a bit weird and confusing. A stuffed bear is featured on the Colorado Lounge set, directly in front of the fireplace. We see it in the wide shots of the room and in the steadicam shot of Wendy running to wake Jack up from his nightmare.
Returning to the bear costumed man scene there are two particular details that can further help us decode the symbolic parallels of bears with the film’s characters. One is that it wouldn’t be possible for the bear costumed man to give felatio, due to the large teeth of his mask. This appears to be an indicator that the costume is not real, but merely symbolic or hallucinatory. Another detail is that the bear costumed man has a loose flap hanging down the back of his costume, which reveals his bare bottom. Being that the two bears in the film that have teeth are the one in the Colorado Lounge, which represented Jack, and the felatio bear, are we to conclude that Wendy actually sees Jack giving felatio instead of Danny? Absolutely. As it turns out, the abuse suffered by Danny is something that has been passed down through the generations. Abused children grow up to become abusers and repeat the sins of their parents in a continuous cycle.
Yes, Danny accidentally spilled something on his papers and a drunk Jack pulled his arm too hard and broke it.
The movie really does a disservice to Jack; in the book he's a decent man who loves his family but has serious issues with alcohol and inferiority issues. In the movie he's a comic book monster.
God damn Kubrick always goes over my head
Fuck man I guess I gotta rewatch
It's from a guy named Rob Ager. He has a YT channel and website devoted to structural analysis of films. His Shining analysis is particularly thorough and interesting:
collativelearning.com
I think book jack is a self insert for King, which would explain why he was so disproportionately outraged at how Kubrick changed movie jack into such a monster.
>I think book jack is a self insert for King
No shit. There's a reason why King writes about alcoholism so much, it was his way of trying to cope with his own.
>The movie really does a disservice to Jack; in the book he's a decent man who loves his family but has serious issues with alcohol and inferiority issues. In the movie he's a comic book monster.
the psychology of movie jack is a thousand times truer to the profile of real abusers.
to king, jack was a bad man when he drank. in kubrick's movie jack drinks because he's already an asshole. he resents his family from the beginning of the movie, he thinks danny and wendy are ruining his life. the hotel just brings out what's already there inside him. i have met this exact kind of guy several times.
>the psychology of movie jack is a thousand times truer to the profile of real abusers.
And the problem is that Jack is not an abuser in the book. So Kubrick fucked up and got it wrong.
the guy is a fucking loony
i watched a couple of his analysis videos a few years ago and his clockwork orange analysis was completely batshit. his theory of the monolith being a fucking movie screen is one of the funniest things ive ever watched, i can't believe people bought into his shit.
About five percent of the time, an obvious exception to the rule of fpbp comes along, which although it does prove the rule, needs to be recognized for the occasional nonsense that it really is. This post is such an exception.
Here is a post about some detail: Wendy is the only one who actually performs any of the job function of the caretaker.
In one brief shot, Wendy is seen /actually working the boiler/, thus fulfilling the caretaker's core job function: protecting the property from depreciation by heating parts on a rotating basis.
Wendy keeps in touch with local law enforcement, actually walks the property with her son, uses the kitchen (she has actually been briefed on inventory and equipment), and she knows exactly where to go when Jack mentions the snowcat.
Jack, meanwhile, remains isolated in various parts of the hotel, berates his wife, and later hypocritically chastises her about all of the caretaker's role, when the truth of hte matter is that, as far as we've seen, it's been her who has actually been doing all of the actual work associated with the job.
Wendy is the real caretaker.
where's the "Autism" in that comment?
Fucking edgy kids
Can we talk about the superior version instead?
It's not about anything.
When will normie cucks realize that Kubrick was a hack who stole all his scripts from source material in the form of novels?
The guy didn't have anything """"hidden"""". Everything in all his films are 90% in the source material.
Stop glorifying this hack!
Don't forget about the skiing poster that's actually a Minotaur.
Skiing isn't real.
Is it superior because it's inferior in every way? Is that how that turd between your ears functions?
>Wendy is the real caretaker.
This is a good point, but what does this mean?
Explain in detail why you think it is inferior.
The film: "Don't go in room 237"
The viewer: "Oh shit he's going in room 237!"
The film: "Slow lead up to Jack going crazy and attacking Wendy and Danny"
The viewer: "Oh shit that guy is slowly chopping down their door with an axe!"
It's just endless suspense for simple minded stoners. I mean the most scary part of the film occurs in a maze with lots of dramatic scores. The shining inspired every generic horror that exists today.
It's not at all a problem if a director, working in a collaborative process, arrives at a distinct plot which provides for an interesting and entertaining film.
You seem to be laboring under the illusion that a film adaptation must and should be coterminous with its source material, or as close as possible to such, at all times. Obviously, this is not how art works, and happily so.
The shining is one of my favorite movie. Easily
I don't expect it to be a 1:1 recreation of the source material, but when you either ignore or completely misinterpret the major thematic elements of it then you're doing a disservice to it.
I have always viewed it as a story about man's potential for evil lurking just beneath the surface. The supernatural stuff is all just to grease the wheels of the story.
No, you explain yourself first, cockstain. Let us know about how this amazing TV movie is better than Kurbick's
This is a reasonable statement but if the end result is a good and lasting film on its own merits, as The Shining is, then your complaints start to sound irrelevant and autistic.
You're trying to hard to disagree with me. You acknowledge that my complaint has merit then dismiss it with "well I and others liked it so you're wrong".
So I think we're both on the same page of "it's a good movie but it's not a good adaptation of The Shining".
Its about manifest destiny and the corrupting effect that American Exceptionalism will have on the future of the United States.
Jack is The American Man. Danny is the future. The Hotel is Donald Trump.
The Shining is a cynical commentary of filmmaking in general. Trust me, I knew Kubrick and this was his sole intention.
Kubrick thought horror movies were silly and hated filming The Shining. He didn't even know the book was by Stephen King and he never actually read the book. He just asked for a synopsis of the story and he wrote the script based on that. If you read the book and watch the film other than it takes place high in a snowy mountainous hotel in Colorado, there are zero resemblances to the book and film. Basically, Warner Bros said it's a movie about a dad who takes his family in a hotel high in the Colorado mountains, he's an author, he slowly goes apeshit because there's old ass ghosts in the hotel. That's all Kubrick needed. The Shining is really about the limits of filmmaking. you can only do so much with it. no matter how you try to do something magical like 2001, it's never enough, so Kubrick really was the caretaker (filmmaker) all along in the script. the stanley hotel was symbolic of the limits of creativity. as you can see with nicholson's pic in the 1921 photo, Kubrick feels with photography and filmmaking there are limitations and that's the only sad thing about being an artist is the limitations on how you can express yourself either verbally, visually or both.
This is the most wrong post I've seen in awhile. Kubrick made a piece of art out of King's hackery
>It's a very very funny movie
Male bears are also known to kill and eat their offspring on occasion, so Kubrick might have been alluding to this with all the bear references
I love one thing about this movie.
This black guy seemed all along like he had some role in it. Maybe he'd help? Maybe he'd turn out to be the evil guy?
You watch it and it seems like he's going to come and help. He'll be the force to turn the tides at the hotel.
Ho comes and he gets instantly stabbed. All this build up to just fucking kill him in the instant. He brought this vehicle, so yeah, he was fucking useful.
Ok, mr, different.. What movie would you consider to be the most scariest ?
Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory
Wonky Willy and the Chocolate Niggie.
It truly is a beautiful subversion of the "xeriff arrives at the end and saves the day" trope in slasher films.
i think that old woman in the tub was the most scary part. also the dead children
You can see from an airplane that the earth is round...