What's Sup Forums's view on the loudness wars? I believe it has positive aspects, many new ways to raise perceived loudness were pioneered.
What's Sup Forums's view on the loudness wars? I believe it has positive aspects...
Jace Cook
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Caleb Gomez
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Gavin James
What does this mean? Is this a sound imitation of tinnitus?
Josiah Bailey
YOU'RE WRO
Michael Scott
It wasn't loud enough.
Dylan Rodriguez
It's not too loud... YOU'RE TOO OLD!
Andrew Lewis
The worst aspect of the "loudness war" is that it has created a breed of fartsniffers that think that loudness is explicitly a bad thing.
Of course a lot of modern music is being ruined with brickwall master bus compression, but when specifically done with intent it can be fucking awesome.
Landon Rogers
Rick Rubin is a cunt.
Parker Wilson
Loudness beyond a certain point is explicitly a bad thing. If the RMS values go below -8dB then you're fucking with any breathing room or dynamics inherent in the mix. Clipping is also totally uneccesary and doesn't need to happen, although if it's limited to the spikes of drum beats it's usually fine. You can have an artistically intended claustrophobic and smashed sounding mix without needing to goose the compressor and limiter.
Nathan Hughes
The loudness war is kind of a misnomer when you think about it. Loudness is relative and when you remove dynamics from music it just sounds flat, not loud. It's counter productive even, I find that it's harder to make compressed music sound loud. When I turn up the volume it doesn't get louder the same way music with good dynamics gets louder.
Thomas Bailey
It's louder in the sense that at the same volume setting on speakers, the bricked master will give you a heart attack with how loud it is, whereas a dynamic master will sound quiet in comparison. The more you turn the volume up on a dynamic mix/master, the more the punch will hit you.
Maximizing loudness sacrifices punch and dynamics in exchange for saving you the bother of having to turn your fucking volume knob, which is apparently a very difficult thing to do according to producers and engineers around the world.
David Baker
Is it 1999 again? The "loudness wars" haven't existed for a long time. Anyone talking about it at this point in reference to new music has no idea what they're talking about.The genres that are produced that way now, EDM, various electronic genres, meme trap garbage, etc., are produced that way because that's the way the music should sound. The "loudness wars" was bad because genres that should not be produced that way - mostly rock coming out of major labels - was being produced that way for CD releases because they had the retarded idea that it would somehow increase sales. Rock is not being produced that way anymore and niether is anything else that shouldn't be. Corporate pop, dance music, etc., are super compressed and maximized because that's the sound of the music. The loudness wars do not exist.
Austin Watson
Christian Ross
I need my bangers to be loud m8
Thomas Richardson
Do you disagree? Explain yourself. Everything I said is correct.
Xavier Roberts
yes, the loudness wars do not exist in this day and age but it's not like music from the 90s that was afflicted by the loudness wars stopped existing.
Anthony Brown
There are remasters for a lot of it. Most of it was absolute shit anyway. What mainstream 90's rock are you in desperate need of a higher fidelity master of? It's basically all garbage grunge HEYYAAA HYYAAAAA caveman shit and britpop.
Jonathan Martin
>He forgot about Death Magnetic
>He forgot about MBDTF
As much as I agree with it can get really annoying sometimes (thanks Rubin).
It's whatever though, latest pop-trend is lo-fying the mix so it sounds better on shit hardware, and that one pisses a lot of audiophile trash even more, which I'm happy for.
Aiden Jackson
>metallica and kanye west
>I am become normie destroyer of taste
Caleb Brown
Syro has RMS of like -.1 throughout most of the record and constantly clips. Sounds great.
Elijah Allen
what 78958757 said
listen to anything mixed before the "loudness war" , then listen to any modern hit, it will sound louder
Landon Morales
No, pretty much every single thing you said is wrong.
>The "loudness wars" haven't existed for a long time
dr.loudness-war.info
>EDM, various electronic genres, meme trap garbage, etc., are produced that way because that's the way the music should sound
Electronic music wasn't mastered loudly back in the 80's and early 90's, nor was metal, or punk, or pop, there is no genre of music that "should sound" over-compressed and over-limited for the sake of it. There are plenty of artists who do release dynamically mastered albums now from most genres. One of the best selling electronic albums in recent memory was mastered just fine; Daft Punk's RAM.
youtube.com
>Rock is not being produced that way anymore and niether is anything else that shouldn't be
At least do the bare minimum of research before shitposting.
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Sure it does. I'm also sure that you can hear plenty fine through your tinnitus.
Parker Robinson
I guess that's what I was getting at. It's harder to tell the difference in volume. Turning the volume knob just increases the pain in my ears.
Henry Collins
>albums from the 80s have DR above 10
>albums from today have DR under 8
Loudness wars are still here
Jace Bennett
Camden Gomez
I honestly dont give a single shit. Most music does not use dynamics to any meaningful extent. The ones that do rarely participate in loudness wars
Ryder Rivera
>Sure it does. I'm also sure that you can hear plenty fine through your tinnitus.
epic simply epic!! user RESIGNED
Gabriel Morgan
fuckin A mate, thanks for showing me this band!
Zachary Collins
This is pretty much on point.
Jordan James
How would you know if a song has dynamics "to any meaningful extent" if the dynamics were removed during the mastering/mixing stages? You can't appreciate something that isn't there.
Lincoln Bailey
>The "loudness wars" haven't existed for a long time
>The loudness wars do not exist.
James Price
for fucks sake. If im listening to a trap song or a dance music song or some indie rock band drenched in reverb and space echo, it doesnt fucking matter if the song gets 0.00231231db quieter when the guitarists sharts in his pant leg and stops playing for 2 seconds. I dont care if that gets limited out, It does not affect my enjoyment as a listener.
If a band obviously uses dynamics as a creative tool then yes, I want to hear it. But then they will have the smarts to leave it in because thats how they intended it. And guess what? you can intend to do the opposite and still be a good musician.
Luis Wright
>Data Compression
>Doesn't change loudness
>Changes peak levels
What?
William Thomas
It does, in minute ways.
Nathaniel Ward
meme boosts and earrape are good
Dominic Davis
You seem to be under the false impression that most musicians know the first thing about mixing and mastering, and thus every single album sounds like it does because it was deliberately designed by the musicians to be that way, and not because of some nebulous belief that if their album is quieter than the next guy's it won't sell well, or simply out of sheer ignorance. If you want to make the claim that musicians should take an interest in mixing and mastering to ensure it sounds like they want it to, then that's fine, that's their prerogative, and I'd agree. If they want a heavily compressed master then that's on them.
The main issue for a lot of people is the fact that you can create a very compressed and limited master out of an already dynamic master, but you can't make a dynamic master out of an already heavily compressed and limited master. Thus if someone prefers listening to a rock album that isn't mastered to -3dB RMS they're at a loss if the album is mastered with loudness in mind. Personally I have plenty of albums I used to listen to all the time, but after a while I started to notice the tells of heavy compression and limiting, and I noticed how so many albums are being done a great disservice by the over-use of these tools. It's simply fatiguing to listen to.
>But then they will have the smarts to leave it in because thats how they intended it.
I have no idea what ludicrous worldview you base this on, considering most albums coming out use dynamics as a creative tool to some extent, yet the majority of albums aren't mastered in a way that allows for those dynamics to have an effect.
Unless you listen exclusively to harsh noise, most music has some kind of dynamics. This isn't an either/or type of thing, there is a middle ground between constantly loud and constantly quiet. Wouldn't you say that symphonic metal for example would benefit from retaining dynamics at the mastering stage? Yet how many albums of that genre do?
Camden Ross
I'm a partner at a recording studio, and while we mostly do tracking and mixing it's not uncommon for people to come with us with stuff to master, so I'll share my perspective as someone who personally has to walk the line between dynamic and loud when mastering.
Personally, I hate squashing songs for the sake of loudness. Mixing itself is part of the song's creative process, and a lot of time goes into automating volumes. So I usually try to use compression to just add a bit of "glue" and coherency to the mix, and go easy on the limiter, usually just reducing drum transients, and only hold the song right around the 0db point during loud parts, like choruses or builds or whatever. That's how you get a good balance between loud and dynamic.
But a lot of times, the artist or producer comes back saying they want it louder to be more competitive, even when I advise them otherwise. So I do what I gotta do.
An experienced mastering engineer will never squash a song's dynamics to the point where it looks like OP's pic related unless they're told to do so by the client. It pains us just as much as you guys, if not more, because our name gets put on there.
Oliver Nelson
>You seem to be under the false impression that most musicians know the first thing about mixing and mastering, and thus every single album sounds like it does because it was deliberately designed by the musicians to be that way, and not because of some nebulous belief that if their album is quieter than the next guy's it won't sell well, or simply out of sheer ignorance.
I didnt read the rest of your post because you missed my point. When the artist says make it loud as fuck, or does it themselves, that is INTENT.
Andrew Butler
>your point is invalid because your examples are for normies
Alexander Miller
it really doesnt matter what the engineer thinks the records should sound like
Benjamin Thompson
>I'm also sure that you can hear plenty fine through your tinnitus.
Tinnitusfag here. The loudness war is about compression and mixing, not the actual volume the listener decides to play the song on. That's what causes tinnitus. I got it because I stupidly went to a OPN concert without earplugs
Brandon Peterson
>I'm a partner at a recording studio
fuck off to Gearslutz and stop lying. Shame on you.
Nicholas Rogers
Merzbow without plugs twice master race here
Zachary Robinson
the irony is people just turn the volume down lower anyways
William Robinson
I don't even understand what point it is you're trying to make here, you seem to be arguing with yourself or a strawman. All I said is that most musicians don't really know anything about mixing and mastering, which wasn't really a problem until modern digital DAWs started to give people endless editing possibilities, including ridiculous amounts of compression and limiting. Artists are free to do whatever they want with their music, just like fans are free to complain if they think an album sounds bad because of things that are entirely technical in nature.
It does actually, but I never brought that up so I don't know what you're trying to argue against.
Jonathan James
Sometimes I get the impression that Sup Forums doesn't actually know anything about music.
Asher Murphy
I like dynamics but I prefer my music not to have unnecessary headroom. The loudest part in a song needs to hit 0 db.
Christopher Thomas
there are """"people"""" on Sup Forums who don't understand the difference?
Landon Miller
that's what replaygain is for
Justin Anderson
>The loudest part in a song needs to hit -0.1 dB.
FTFY