The great debate

Brody Davis
Brody Davis

The great debate...

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All urls found in this thread:

albumlinernotes.com/George_Martin_Comments.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromesthesia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome
mentalfloss.com/article/88417/12-famous-artists-synesthesia
mentalfloss.com/article/25552/quick-10-10-people-perfect-pitch

Angel Flores
Angel Flores

Whatr's the debate? They are both fine.

Ryan Jackson
Ryan Jackson

Sgt Peppers because it was made by actual talented musicians.
I don't want to untuned guitars play noise and lo fi garage rock.

Julian Wright
Julian Wright

TVU&N easily.

Jaxson Martin
Jaxson Martin

TVU is obviously better

Wyatt Torres
Wyatt Torres

you don't need talent to be a great musician.

Austin Brown
Austin Brown

Sgt. Pepper's.

Ian Watson
Ian Watson

I prefer TVU&N. But if we are talking about influence, Sgt Peppers was more influential and important.

Josiah Gray
Josiah Gray

kek

Nathaniel Watson
Nathaniel Watson

the beatles
talented

Wyatt Miller
Wyatt Miller

Name me one TVU that is in an odd time signature.

Parker Edwards
Parker Edwards

John Cale alone was more talented than the whole Beatles.

Nathan Adams
Nathan Adams

Sgt Papper isn't even the best Battles album of 1967

Wyatt Wilson
Wyatt Wilson

Talent is not even scientifically proven to exist.

Blake Nelson
Blake Nelson

TVU&N is a better album, but Beatles were a better band overall.
- more influential
- more prolific
- more diverse
- much better vocals and drums

Austin Davis
Austin Davis

How so?

Christopher Clark
Christopher Clark

I think the reason it's not worth discussing is because there is no way anyone who picks one thinks the other is even a contender so there's no room for convincing someone unless they just don't have an opinion at all in which case they are worthless (the correct answer is TVU&N obviously)

James Reyes
James Reyes

Sgt Peppers was more influential and important.
there are Rolling Stone reading retards who actually believe this

Nicholas Cruz
Nicholas Cruz

This is correct, Sgt. Pepper isn't even their best album and it's still one of the best ever

Charles Sullivan
Charles Sullivan

That was the only album release din 1967

Henry Campbell
Henry Campbell

*Deletes Femme Fatale

Alexander Reed
Alexander Reed

Not an argument.

The Beatles also influenced VU themselves, so they are more influential, statistically speaking.

Jace Sullivan
Jace Sullivan

muh time signatures make a song good
why is it always time signatures that you fags like to circlejerk, even though they're so menial and unimportant. A time signature means nothing to the quality of a song.

Noah Reyes
Noah Reyes

Sgt. Peppers
more influential and improtant than an album that pioneered several genres

did you start listening to rock yesterday? Sgt. Peppers is basically Beatles trying to sound like Pet Sounds. She's Leaving Home is Paul trying hard as fuck to be like Brian Wilson.

Isaiah Lopez
Isaiah Lopez

I hate Rolling Stone, but they are right on that

Sebastian Murphy
Sebastian Murphy

Sgt. Pepper changed popular music as a whole, it influenced the same bands that The Velvet Underground did and others as well.

Kevin Gutierrez
Kevin Gutierrez

Nice goalpost shifting
pioneered several genres
[citation needed]

Juan Baker
Juan Baker

pioneered severed genres
Are you talking about banana Album or WL/WH?

Owen Bell
Owen Bell

Sgt. Peppers is basically Beatles trying to sound like Pet Sounds.
When will this meme end

Jason Nelson
Jason Nelson

noise rock (European Son)
post rock (Heroin)
proto punk (Waiting for The Man)
dream pop (Sunday Morning)

Kayden Ramirez
Kayden Ramirez

first fact in this thread

William Ross
William Ross

*blocks your path*

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Mason Clark
Mason Clark

This is also better than Sgt. Peppers.

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Jaxon Sanders
Jaxon Sanders

That's a nice EP, not an album though

Jonathan Morgan
Jonathan Morgan

this tired ass argument
It's officially recognized as an album pal. Deal with it!

Isaac Stewart
Isaac Stewart

Not an album

Matthew Price
Matthew Price

noise rock (European Son)
proto punk (Waiting for The Man)
Wrong. See: The Monks
dream pop (Sunday Morning)
Wrong. See Phil Spector
post rock (Heroin)
How is this post-rock?

Matthew Nguyen
Matthew Nguyen

I don't get why people say that WL/WH pioneered genres. TVU&N came first and did those things first. WL/WH was just more abrassive.

Luke Cruz
Luke Cruz

A compilation album? yes but that's not what we are talking about.

Ryan James
Ryan James

That's not an album, that's a short album!
Nice

Lucas Gonzalez
Lucas Gonzalez

The Monks
noise rock/proto punk

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Dominic Robinson
Dominic Robinson

Released as a studio LP in the US, so...

Noah Jones
Noah Jones

that was said by george martin himself you illiterated cherubin

Cooper Myers
Cooper Myers

Look it up, idiot
You mean the nation where Beatles releases were not sanctioned by The Beatles?

OK. I hop you count Yesterday and Today and Hey Jude as actual albums then
that's a short album!
They call it an EP
[citation needed]

Tyler Thomas
Tyler Thomas

THIS. THANKS user.

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Sebastian Brown
Sebastian Brown

Actual music vs. """"art"""" degeneracy
Yeah this 'debate' is a no-brainer

Jeremiah Gomez
Jeremiah Gomez

I can just tell you're the type of person who releases generic shoegaze shit on bandcamp because "music is subjective"

Joshua Gutierrez
Joshua Gutierrez

Monks
Noise rock

Explain

Justin Lee
Justin Lee

Beatles
not degenerate

Evan King
Evan King

OK. I hope you count Yesterday and Today and Hey Jude as actual albums then
I do. Along with Something New and Meet the Beatles! as well

Jacob Long
Jacob Long

Ok then, prove to me that talent exist.

And I don't want a video of your favorite musician playing their shit, I want you to show me scientific facts.

John Robinson
John Robinson

[citation needed]
“Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn't have happened. Revolver was the beginning of the whole thing. But Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds.
albumlinernotes.com/George_Martin_Comments.html

6/11 made me reply

Ian Hill
Ian Hill

please prove a negative.
Except you made the original claim that talent has been scientifically proven to not exist, thus the burden of proof is on you. Show us the studies.

Anthony Richardson
Anthony Richardson

“Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn't have happened. Revolver was the beginning of the whole thing. But Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds.
Not what I'm asking for.

Try again.

Levi Johnson
Levi Johnson

Not an argument

Easton Hughes
Easton Hughes

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromesthesia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome

Jackson Miller
Jackson Miller

It is. user made a claim, I asked for a citation, he did not provide one. Read the thread if you are still confused.

David Young
David Young

He provided citation.
He won. It's over.

Gabriel James
Gabriel James

mentalfloss.com/article/88417/12-famous-artists-synesthesia
mentalfloss.com/article/25552/quick-10-10-people-perfect-pitch
There's your science

Joshua Williams
Joshua Williams

He provided citation.
Not for the claim that George Martin said
Sgt. Peppers is basically Beatles trying to sound like Pet Sounds.

Try again.

Nathaniel Evans
Nathaniel Evans

How is this relevant?

Kevin Robinson
Kevin Robinson

Reading comprehension

He won. It's over.

Hunter Rodriguez
Hunter Rodriguez

apples to oranges... the great debate is sgt pepper and pet sounds

Juan Phillips
Juan Phillips

equaled = copying
Nice reading comprehension

Grayson Clark
Grayson Clark

Sgt. Peppers is basically Beatles trying to sound like Pet Sounds
Pet Sounds was just The beach Boys trying to sound like Rubber Soul

Lincoln Evans
Lincoln Evans

Duhhh I don't know. Could it be that a large amount of the most renowned musicians of all time all coincidentally have these same mental conditions that set them apart from the average person?

Gabriel Torres
Gabriel Torres

Nice meme

This is a serious discussion. Fuck off back to /b/ if you can't handle it.

Thomas Richardson
Thomas Richardson

they both suck, and you're awful for thinking otherwise

Jaxson Sanchez
Jaxson Sanchez

Aww someone got upset because he was born an average schmo with nothing noteworthy about him. Don't worry buddy, there's plenty of open spaces in the service industry, even if you're lacking 'talent' in the brain department.

Cooper Brown
Cooper Brown

What do you mean? I play in several bands.

How about you?

Jason Sullivan
Jason Sullivan

I played in a few bands in college, yeah. The difference is I don't try to claim talent is completely irrelevant and four working class teenagers from Liverpool magically became the most popular band in the world because they studied their chords and anyone could do what they did.

Julian Morales
Julian Morales

The difference is I don't try to claim talent is completely irrelevant
When did I say that?

James Smith
James Smith

Lol I don't have time for your backpedalling. I proved your point wrong, just leave it at that.

Jordan Evans
Jordan Evans

I proved your point wrong,
Again, when did I say this?

You might be replying to the wrong person you dipshit

Hudson Bell
Hudson Bell

I mean one was something original and timeless and a debut album no less and then the other was just buttloads of money being used to make something that was already surpassed and irrelevant by the time it was released because it was so completely caught up in being contemporary to the exact year it was released but with no vision of the future, if it were released by anyone else, nobody would give a shit

Daniel Williams
Daniel Williams

I don't believe that anyone is actually this retarded

Thomas Parker
Thomas Parker

Sgt pepper's by far

Jace Bennett
Jace Bennett

used to make something that was already surpassed and irrelevant by the time it was released because it was so completely caught up in being contemporary
What albums specifically?

Camden Murphy
Camden Murphy

VU&N for one, unlike all the contemporary music of that time which can be easily lumped together as just an overall sound and influence that was felt through the late 60's and early 70's, The Velvet Underground cannot be grouped into all that other stuff as its influence was totally separate from all that and what it influenced only fully came into fruition a decade later with all sorts of brand new musical movements taking off simultaneously

You can't even compare the two albums in the OP as if they are on the same level and expect to be taken seriously

Logan Long
Logan Long

VU&N for one
Doesn't sound at all like Sgt Pepper. Try again

Hunter Clark
Hunter Clark

was already surpassed and irrelevant by the time it was released because it was so completely caught up in being contemporary

Henry Thompson
Henry Thompson

/thread

Daniel Rogers
Daniel Rogers

What albums specifically?
If something was totally separate from musical movements, then it could not have been contemporary

Try again.

Eli Reyes
Eli Reyes

He was influenced by the Beatles though

Gabriel Turner
Gabriel Turner

Look, I don't know why I'm taking the bait here, but the fact that VU&N doesn't sound anything like Sgt. Pepper's is a point in its favor...VU&N was a visionary album, Sgt. Pepper's was not, Sgt. Pepper's was a contemporary album

Kayden Gonzalez
Kayden Gonzalez

I don't want to untuned guitars play noise and lo fi garage rock
Spotted the pleb

Jeremiah Perez
Jeremiah Perez

The Beatles also influenced VU themselves, so they are more influential, statistically speaking
"Citation needed"

Thomas Turner
Thomas Turner

Influenced by =/= better

Wyatt Adams
Wyatt Adams

Why's this one say "Mothers"?

Jaxon Williams
Jaxon Williams

but the fact that VU&N doesn't sound anything like Sgt. Pepper's is a point in its favor
Not really. You said that Sgt Pepper's downfall was that it was trying too hard to sound like it's contemporaries and be of it's time, right? And your example is VU&N, right?

It can't be because
1) Pepper doesn't sound ANYTHING like VU&N (thus it's not a contemporary)
2) VU&N intentionally did not sound anything like their won contemporaries (it was not of it's time)

Your'e gonna have to b8 harder you dumbfuck

Sgt. Pepper's was a contemporary album
Again, if that was true, you'd be able to show me albums that sound like that. So far you've failed miserably.

"They were a driving force in the velvets, and made us work harder and got us on our bikes. Rubber soul was where you were forced to deal with them as something other than a flash in the pan. It was rich in ideas and i loved the way george managed to find a way to include all those indian instruments. Lou and i had tried to work with the sarinda. We were only playing it just to get a noise but i realised you could play melody on the sitar as good as Norwegian wood. Norwegian woond had this atmosphere of being very acid. I don't think anybody has ever got that sound or that feeling as well at the Beatles."
-John Cale

Nicholas Johnson
Nicholas Johnson

I'm guessing English is your second language or maybe this discussion was moving too fast for you. First of all, please listen to at least 150-200 albums from 1967 before coming back to this board if you're going to post retarded opinions like this because then at least you might have learned something.

When you immerse yourself in the music of 1966-1969 and into the early 70's, there's a lot of stuff there, an insane amount of 20th century music genres and movements experienced their origins or peaks in those years. And when you listen to all of that stuff, you'll find Sgt. Pepper's does not sound original or fresh in any way and never did.

Your argument is that because The Velvet Underground were so far ahead of their time, they are worse than Sgt. Pepper's, but that doesn't make any sense. If you want to argue Sgt. Pepper's does a better job representing 1967, then sure, but it's not the more revolutionary album. Sgt. Pepper's was released in recognition of a revolution that already began and had no relevance to that revolution, while The Velvet Underground kicked off its own revolution that eventually succeeded the current one. It was influencing the stuff that replaced Sgt. Pepper's before Sgt. Pepper's existed.

Lucas Clark
Lucas Clark

please listen to at least 150-200 albums from 1967
Have you?

Still waiting for you to list some albums...

they are worse
When did I say this? English might be your second language so I can understand if you got confused.
If you want to argue Sgt. Pepper's does a better job representing 1967 then sure
Not my argument

Christopher Brooks
Christopher Brooks

Then what the fuck is your problem, are you just wanting someone to spoonfeed you? Because your original post and all your attempts to side-step any actual discussion in need of lists suggest you have nothing of value to add here and just want to be told what to think. I answer your stupid question and you just can't say anything. Fuck you and posters who think like you. I've probably listened to 200 albums at least from every year between 1967-1972 and I didn't need anybody to tell me my opinions on them. You can't understand anything about musical influence if you don't just listen to music for yourself, no parrotable lists will solve your major deficiencies. I hope you die in a fire and nobody notices you're gone.

Jack Robinson
Jack Robinson

She's Leaving Home > anything on TVU

Aiden Clark
Aiden Clark

I answer your stupid question
Oh, where is a list of albums you posted?

You seem to forgotten it.

I've probably listened to 200 albums at least from every year between 1967-1972
How long have you been studying music theory?

Leo White
Leo White

Banana is MILES better than anything the beatles have ever done, and it's not even TVU's best album
TVU
-Pioneered several genres
Ahead of their time
-Influenced hundreds of people
-Actually good music
The Beatles
-Literal boyband
-Only influences others in non-music related shit like the album format, music videos and concerts
-Mediocre music
though TVU after John Cale left is worse than the beatles. Lou truly is a talentless hack

Connor Kelly
Connor Kelly

Sure scaruffi

Robert Reed
Robert Reed

Jesus how can you be so wrong

Nicholas Butler
Nicholas Butler

Revolver destroys both

Asher Perry
Asher Perry

TVU easily

Wyatt Stewart
Wyatt Stewart

Which one is gayer?

Julian Allen
Julian Allen

"Sampling has been around since the Beatles they did it all. There is no difference between using tapes and digital machinery."
-Karl Bartos of Kraftwerk

"When I was 20, I worked at a hotel in a dance orchestra, playing weddings, bar-mitzvahs, dancing, cabaret. I drove home and I was also at college at the time. Then I put on the radio (Radio Luxemburg) and I heard this music. It was terrifying. I had no idea what it was. Then it kept going. Then there was this enormous whine note of strings. Then there was this colossal piano chord. I discovered later that I'd come in half-way through Sgt. Pepper, played continuously. My life was never the same again"
-Robert Fripp on hearing the Beatles Sgt Pepper

"The Beatles. They broke down every barrier that ever existed. Suddenly you could do anything after The Beatles. You could write your own music, make it ninety yards long, put it in 7/4, whatever you wanted."
-Bill Bruford, drummer of King Crimson and Yes.

Juan Cruz
Juan Cruz

*Deletes YOU, faggot

Christopher Smith
Christopher Smith

This. Pet Sounds is better than both, by the way.

Ryder Gonzalez
Ryder Gonzalez

Revolver remains my favorite because that’s the first one where I felt that they stepped outside the normal four-piece band and started experimenting in the studio. That album introduces a lot of things that are firsts. Things like Indian music and orchestras playing with the band and backwards guitar, a lot of things that I still really love.
Yes, there is so much in their music that is very avant-garde. Experimental songs, which first began as 20-minute jams, that a prog-rock band might do. I’m thinking of “Helter Skelter”, which I just read was originally a 27-minute jam! They edited that down to a three-and-a-half minute song!
-Adrian Belew, King Crimson

The Beatles are the great mediator between serious music and popular music
-Karlheinz Stockhausen

"Keith liked the Beatles because he was quite interested in their chord sequences. He also liked their harmonies, which were always a slight problem to the Rolling Stones. Keith always tried to get the harmonies off the ground but they always seemed messy. What we never really got together were Keith and Brian singing backup vocals. It didn't work, because Keith was a better singer and had to keep going, oooh, ooh ooh (laughs). Brian liked all those oohs, which Keith had to put up with. Keith was always capable of much stronger vocals than ooh ooh ooh".
-Mic Jagger

Gavin Butler
Gavin Butler

But Femme Fatal and Heroin are both the best songs on the album

Luke Cooper
Luke Cooper

"The Beatles were perfect for opening doors... When they went to America they made it wide open for us. We could never have gone there without them. They're so fucking good at what they did."
-Keith Richards

"I think "Eleanor Rigby" was a very important musical move forward. It certainly inspired me to write and listen to things in that vein"
-Pete Townshend of the Who

"The lift from the Beatles wouldn't have been conscious. Like every other band around at that time, bar none, we were hugely influenced by the Beatles. I'd never heard anything like them. The trick was to let your own voice come through as well."
-Rod Argent, The zombies

Michael Mitchell
Michael Mitchell

"They were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid. They were pointing the direction music had to go."
"They were fantastic singers. Lennon, to this day, it’s hard to find a better singer than Lennon was, or than McCartney was and still is."
"I’m in awe of McCartney. He’s about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he’s never let up... He’s just so damn effortless."
-Bob Dylan

"The Beatles were why we turned from a jug band into a rock 'n' roll band," said Bob Weir. "What we saw them doing was impossibly attractive. I couldn't think of anything else more worth doing"
-Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead

They were real important to everybody. They were a little model, especially the movies – the movies were a big turn-on. Just because it was a little model of good times. The Fifties were sure hurting for good times. And the early Sixties were very serious too – Kennedy and everything. And the Beatles were light and having a good time and they were good too, so it was a combination that was very satisfying on the artistic level, which is part of the scene that I was into – the art school thing and all that. The conscious thing of the artistic world, the Beatles were accomplished in all that stuff. It was like saying, “You can be young, you can be far out, and you can still make it.” They were making people happy. That happy thing – that’s the stuff that counts – something that we could all see right away.
- Jerry Garcia

Kayden Morris
Kayden Morris

Every subsequent release of MMT follows the American version, including ones in Britain in the 60's. MNT is an album.

Isaiah Smith
Isaiah Smith

not an argument

Levi Brooks
Levi Brooks

they probably did. Lou Reed only said he hated the Bealtes because he was an edgy faggot (I love both btw)

Ethan Murphy
Ethan Murphy

I'd pick the banana one if it only had venus in furs. I can't endure the rest of it.

Luis Cruz
Luis Cruz

Love both bands but TVU&N is the better album and it's not even close. It's the best album of the 60s and it's way ahead of it's time. Sgt Peppers is great but Banana is on another level all together.

Evan Parker
Evan Parker

is this even a debate?
tvu&n eazy

Wyatt Nelson
Wyatt Nelson

You could insert any Beatles album you wanted to right there and it would hold up against 98% of anything else. Andy Warhol is The VU's only chance at not losing the debate every time.

/thread

Thomas Morgan
Thomas Morgan

this

Luke Mitchell
Luke Mitchell

Why do people pretend Frank Zappa is as good as The Beatles?

Zachary Perry
Zachary Perry

I think beatlestard is worst fanboy ever

Leo Gutierrez
Leo Gutierrez

this is not a debate

vu and nico

Ian Lopez
Ian Lopez

Honestly TVU&N is Overrated on Sup Forums. I feel like most people say it's better just to get hisper points. Sgt.Peppers is better fact.

Christopher Morales
Christopher Morales

you fucking what mate

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