Who are the first order?
Why are they exactly like the Empire, but not?
Why are they fascists, and why are they human-only?
Who are these officers and why would they serve the first order when an alternative exists?
Why does the New Republic allow them to exist?
How did they build Death Star III next to 4 populated planets without anyone realizing it?
Where did they get the resources or tech to build Death Star III?
Why did Luke allow Revan to join up with them?
Why are their opposition still called the "[rebel] alliance" and not the "republic fleet" or something?
Why does everything important with them happen in one system despite having light speed and access to an entire galaxy?
Why is there literally zero exposition in this movie? How are you supposed to care about what is happening in the movie when literally nothing makes sense?
First Order
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There will be a star wars movie coming out every year until we're all dead.
Im sure theyll find a way to drag out your answers.
Loads of plot holes and bad world building.
The Rebel Alliance and the Empire signed a peace treaty after the battle of Jakku that saw both sides disarm 90% of their forces. The First Order is a rogue Empire faction that is taking advantage of the situation. Supreme Chancellor Mon Mothma refuses to allow the restored republic to enter a new arms race to defend itself. Leia is ousted due to the revelation that she is Vader's daughter and is seen as a warmonger like her father. She creates a new faction called the Resistance to combat the threat of the First Order.
I wish I was memeing, but this is straight out of the official Disney canon timeline.
>literally none of this was explained in the movie
What were they thinking?
>Leia
but she's dead now
Its all explained in the canon books
Quick rundown, basically after the battle of endor the Empire began to fall apart and break apart into smaller imperial factions. Most of these factions died off but the biggest one, the first order, stuck around.
The New Republic made a treaty with the First Order saying that they will allow them to operate, as long as they don't build an army, any sort of super weapon, or conquer any republic owned planets.
So basically after the treaty is signed the First Order fucks off to the uncharted regions of the galaxy and breaks every rule that they agreed too.
Princess liea, being smart enough to not trust the First Order at all, starts the Resistance. A privately funded military, after Mon Mothma disbands the New Republic military like the dumb cunt she is. While the Resistance is associated with the new republic, they aren't funded by them.
That is more or less where Episode 7 starts.
It all should have been at the very least in the opening crawl. I don't know why the hell it wasn't considering this is all pretty important stuff
>So basically after the treaty is signed the First Order fucks off to the uncharted regions of the galaxy
but how did they manage to build a planet (and star) killing weapon in a system with at least 4 republic planets?
The motivations of the Empire and the First Order are always poorly explained, it's just fantasy where the villains are villains and that's all we know. The nazi scene was just lazy as hell.
The only way anyone would know is to either read the new novels or the Rogue One promo magazines they are selling at the grocery store. But it was the same with the original trilogy. Lucas detailed Palpatine's rise to power in the prologue of the original SW novelization, but it's not even brought up in the movie proper. They never even say his name in the movies until Phantom Menace 22 years later. Star Wars is just weird about exposition in general.
>Who are the first order?
>Why are they exactly like the Empire, but not?
>Why are they fascists, and why are they human-only?
The Empire was and I guess they didn't want to break tradition
>Who are these officers and why would they serve the first order when an alternative exists?
Most of the officers are youngins who were brainwashed by the empire as children to carry on its legacy. Hux is the best example of this. His father was one of the last high ranking imperials before deciding to use children, including his son, to militarize the first order
>Why does the New Republic allow them to exist?
They didn't really know just how bad things are until the beginning of TFA. Up to that point its mostly Mon Mothma playing dumb and pretending nothing is going wrong while Leia fixes all of her fuckups before she dies.
>How did they build Death Star III next to 4 populated planets without anyone realizing it?
The location of Starkiller is off in unknown regions of the galaxy. There is a good chance those planets are either uninhabited, or inhabited by civilizations that are unaware of the greater picture such as the galactic civil war.
>Where did they get the resources or tech to build Death Star III?
No fucking clue, but I hope to god I get an answer soon because it drives me crazy
>Why did Luke allow Revan to join up with them?
We will probably find out in TLJ
>Why are their opposition still called the "[rebel] alliance" and not the "republic fleet" or something?
Its not the rebel anything. Its the resistance. And the reason why is above in those other posts. Its not a republic army.
>Why does everything important with them happen in one system despite having light speed and access to an entire galaxy?
Because despite everything they are still only a fraction of the size of the Empire. The Force Awakens is really the first time we see them expanding beyond the unknown regions
>The Empire was and I guess they didn't want to break tradition
But Snoke isn't human.
This is one of the reasons why I'm convinced that the second one just isn't going to work. It's going to be really jarring if they try to play the First Order as a big threat ala Empire Strikes Back because I'm still confused on what they are and what assets they have.
See I can believe the the Empire was still a big deal after losing the first Deathstar because they're a fucking empire that controls the whole galaxy. But with the First Order I have no idea how big of a threat they actually are. I mean do they control territory? Do they have a fleet? All we see is their giant planet laser base and that gets exploded, so as far as I know they're basically done now.
>The location of Starkiller is off in unknown regions of the galaxy. There is a good chance those planets are either uninhabited, or inhabited by civilizations that are unaware of the greater picture such as the galactic civil war.
This is literally false
The death star III doesn't move once in the entire movie and it blows up 3-4 other planets in the same system it was built in during the movie
That's just JJ Abrams being scientifically illiterate. SW may be a fantasy, but you can only take things so far before even grade schoolers call bullshit.
You mean the Hosnian system? The one they blow up?
That system is nowhere near StarKillers location. Starkillers beam can travel through hyperspace as explained in the visual dictionaries.
There have always been exceptions if an alien is exceptionally good at their work. Thrawn comes to mind.
We really don't know what it is about Snoke that makes him an exception. I guess we will just need to wait until december to find out
Again, The Hosnian system is nowhere near Starkiller.
I agree its fucking dumb, but thats just the way it is. Hyperspace lazers.
The answers to all your questions can be explained across a series of 4 poorly-written novels and/or several wookiepedia articles.
But the real answer to all your questions is that JJ or Kennedy or the story group or whoever was in charge of this shit just didn't think about it and decided it was a story for another time. So basically it's the exact same shit as the prequels, where George made a big mess and then all these glorified fanfic writers-for-hire were brought in to try and clean it up.
>inb4 "the books are canon so they count!"
If you have to release a pamphlet before a movie to explain the backstory of the movie, then you fucked up making the movie. It doesn't matter how canon the books are or not, it's still shitty story-telling.
Remind me - as of tFA, what planets/organisations/military stuff got destroyed by Death Star mk.III?
Was that the actual Republic fleet that got destroyed? So, the Resistance still have theirs?
>Who are the BUF?
>Why are they exactly like the nazis, but not?
>Why are they fascists, and why are they anglo-only?
>Who are these officers and why would they serve the BUF when an alternative exists?
How could the base suck up an entire star and the people in the base weren't crushed into the floor by increasing gravity?
The original death star doesn't make much sense either but this is a whole new level of stupidity
I'm just glad they've decided to switch directors every movie. This way we can at least maintain hope for each sequel.
the first order are lame LARPing neonazis trying to be just like the empire because muh sheev did no wrong, but then they're also 10x more powerful than the old empire because instead of a death star that blows up planets they have a death planet that blows up entire star systems, so they're both a weak shadow of the empire while also being far more powerful than the empire ever was at the same time because jj couldn't make up his mind what the fuck he wanted his movie to be about because he's a hack
The Hosnian system, including Hosnian Prime, which was the Republics capital
The resistance still has most(?) of their stuff. We don't actually have a direct answer but its a safe assumption considering their distance from the republic
The answer to all of these questions in real life is that the people at Disney wanted to make a remake of Star Wars without being explicit about it.
This. If I had watched TFA without ever seeing Star Wars I wouldn't have had any problem getting into it and the background in the crawl would have been adequate. There's good guys, bad guys and they're pushing against each other.
As a fan who's seen the 6 previous movies though, I spent the first hour questioning everything. If anything they should have ripped off the prequels and had a new 'phantom menace' in Snoke heading an unrecognizable army that becomes more empire like as the trilogy progresses.
>Emperor is killed with his senior command staff aboard the Death Star
>half the rebel fleet is destroyed above Endor
>SOMEHOW the rebel alliance forms a galactic government
SOMEHOW the remaining imperial captains and admirals don't just declare themselves the new emperor and seize control of worlds
>even though there would have to be literally millions of imperial starships with crews still out there after RoTJ
It's so fucking unbelievable. It should have been a Crisis of the Third Century type deal, with a tiny fledgling republic trying to survive in a galaxy divided by imperial warlords
>SOMEHOW the remaining imperial captains and admirals don't just declare themselves the new emperor and seize control of worlds
Thats exactly what they tried to do, and how they ended up with so many broken factions before becoming the first order. The war didn't end after Endor like a lot of people think. The final battle was actually the Battle of Jakku. The factions not only are killed off by the rebels, but also each other, fighting for the top imperial spot.
Stars don't weigh anything buddy. It's just gas. Just burning gas.
Also, they are in space. Everything is weightless in space,
Nigga u dumb as hell
It's heavily implied in the Bloodlines book that the First Order is being funded through members of the New Republic. Basically there are two political parties - Populists (Leia type people who support democratic government by the people) vs Centrists (People who prefer a strong central government aka the empire). It's heavily implied that Centrists are funding the first order and that plans went into star killer base years and years ago.
I suspect that the we are introduced to some of the criminal corrupt connections to the first order within the republic in The Last Jedi, which will imply answers to a lot of questions, without giving us too much exposition.
Star killer base aka death star 3 can fire through hyperspace to the center of the galaxy where those 3-4 planets are. This is the official map.
Supreme Fuhrer Snoke approves of this message. We shall not fail this time lads.
Because the movie wants to be both a reboot and a sequel
Then why did the characters on the surface of starkiller base see the planets get blown up, and even made remarks about it?
I'm starting to think that the writers of this movie are literally retarded.
Because it turns out planets blowing up are incredibly fucking noticeable
>mon mothma refuses to take up arms
LOL what? She was head of the fucking Alliance
The first Order did not see the planets blow up from star killer base, they saw the beam shooting out.
Finn and the people at the cantina were at Taodana which is a lot closer to the Hosnian system. I guess they could see the planets from there? It doesn't really make sense in terms of distance though even if the solar systems are close to eachother.
visible instantly from the other side of the galaxy?
J.J. Abrams doesn't know how light works and has no sense of cosmological scale.
This was clear when he thought a supernova could destroy a galaxy in his Star Trek movie.
That whole scene was so fucking stupid, everything about death star 3 was retarded.
The First Order should had a more original evil plan, maybe people wouldn't be so pissed about how derivative TFA was
>Hosnian Prime blows up
>the heroes watch it happen in real time
>from presumably light years away
It was all the will of the force
It's fantasy not an attempt at smart science fiction. I mean there is sound is space.
Bruh, its not hard to figure out
There used to be an article on wookiepedia explaining that starships have speakers going pew pew so pilots can hear the threats
Why even set it in space at all?
The light from the planets would have taken thousands of years to reach them there, not to mention probably being invisible to the naked eye
Star Wars isn't hard science fiction, buddy
Try explaining to me the science behind how lightsabers work
Suspension of disbelief
I can believe stuff like laser guns, swords, and spaceships in that setting
What I can't believe is the simple fucking concepts of distance being broken
can someone give me the tldr on Revan please
>Stars don't weigh anything buddy. It's just gas. Just burning gas.
9/10
Why does he wear the mask?
More than just a regular pothole it's really bad and it's really embarrassing and it's really sad that that is happened to Star Wars.
And now I'm depressed and I don't want to post anymore.
Its not a plothole. Its just information deliberately left out of the movie.
It all has a logical explination, its just not apparent in the movie
A plothole would be something like the wrong planet exploading or some bullshit
I just want the New Jedi Order saga to be in film. The Yuuzan Vhong were an actual threat to the galaxy.
This is bait.
thematically it doesn't make sense for the first order to still have the sophisticated, orderly empire asthetic
it's not underdog vs big powerful villain, now it's republic(?????) or republic-backed resistance(?????) against neo-imperial(?????) or radical imperial splinter group(?????) that for some reason still has big ships and planet destroying bases and looks exactly like the empire
it's all muddled and shitty and neither of the factions make story sense. It's just an excuse to have x wings and tie fighters again. Kinda pisses me off.
>Mon Motha
>leader of the rebel alliance
>refused to enter an arm race to defend themselves
but that makes no sense, if anything she should have been the one pushing for it while the rest of the senate is afraid of a second Palpatine happening
>it's been way over a year since TFA has been released
>autists still make daily threads whining about it
IT'S A FUCKING CHILDREN'S MOVIE AND YOU SHOULD KILL YOURSELVES
at this point you're no better than all the normie "nerds" who consistently nitpick and shit on the prequels
>Why are they exactly like the Empire, but not?
Because it's lazy fan service devoid of creativity. For some reason this makes it amazing to RLM though.
If the vong are going to be introduced they need to change everything around. Just adapting the New Jedi Order would end terribly
>Give the Vong a trilogy of anthology movies
>Takes place about 100 years after the end of Episode 9 (confirmed to be the last numbered movie)
>remove their force insensitivity
>remove any sort of overlap with the OT or really any other current war. If the Vong are going to get their own war, it needs to be them vs the galaxy. I hated having the war with them happening at the same time as the Galactic Civil War.
>Drop ANY amount of knowlege sheev had of them. Its fucking dumb
Does the book say or imply who's funding the Resistance?
This.
>rakata prime
Wait, are they gonna door a knights of the old republic prequel movie?
>Ray and her squad
>Thats exactly what they tried to do, and how they ended up with so many broken factions before becoming the first order.
Is that explained in a novelization?
the vong were just space isis with no force sensitivity to make the op. They're better off staying in the dead eu.
Not the novilization, but extended canon books.
I think its specifically covered in Bloodline and Life Debt
No, but they are stealing everything from the Old Republic Era for their new canon. But as long as they make Revan canon the fanbois wont care and eat it up. It wont matter if he is a completely different character or if none of his backstory is canon, or even if kotor is canon.
Star Wars fans really are the most cucked fanbase there is.
because when George Lucas created it, space was very popular.
I never quite liked kotor. Its setting just invalidated the original trilogy. Technology is meant to move forward right? So why was everything in kotor flashier and more efficient looking than the OT? There was never some kind of "oh there was a galaxy wide emp surge and everyone bumped their heads and forgot how to make cool space ships so they started from scratch" kind of explanation.
It is explained in the opeing crawl.
I like Kotor as a game and it's does a good job at world building and using star wars tropes. However, I agree with you.
It came out in a time where the concept of a Jedi was being changed through the prequels, video games, ect...
KOTOR was released one year after Attack of the Clones. It ran with the idea of the republic and this massive Jedi order. KOTOR created this even larger Jedi order and republic. They went crazy with the Sith making them this Empire which is essentially the same as the galactic empire. All the characters are essentially throwbacks to the movie characters. It's fun and fresh. They introduce a character who uses both the light and dark side of the force, a "grey" force user if you will. This concept is heavily expanded on in the series as well as much of the expanded universe.
I really hate this idea. I look at the force as how Yoda taught Luke. Basically there is no grey area. Giving in to the dark side at all will overcome you. It's about being the super good hero.
>Who are the first order?
The remnants of the Empire
>Why are they exactly like the Empire, but not?
because they're a small version of it
>Why are they fascists, and why are they human-only?
the empire was
>Who are these officers and why would they serve the first order when an alternative exists?
they were born into it
>Why does the New Republic allow them to exist?
Because, apparently, New Republic politicians and people don't want to continue the war and waste resources and lives killing off the first order. presumably they just think the FO isn't a threat to NR anymore
>How did they build Death Star III next to 4 populated planets without anyone realizing it?
plot hole
>Where did they get the resources or tech to build Death Star III?
plot hole
>Why did Luke allow Revan to join up with them?
he couldnt do anything about it
>Why are their opposition still called the "[rebel] alliance" and not the "republic fleet" or something?
It's jsut a group led by princess Leia, a break off from NR military. Pretty much a vigilante group for hutning down FO
>Why does everything important with them happen in one system despite having light speed and access to an entire galaxy?
dunno
>Why is there literally zero exposition in this movie? How are you supposed to care about what is happening in the movie when literally nothing makes sense?
because they want an action movie and the political landscape is not as elegantly explicable as in episode 4
>They went crazy with the Sith making them this Empire which is essentially the same as the galactic empire
And that is my second problem with kotor. Palpatine's empire was always meant to be the only empire in the galaxy. Before you know it we end up with countless previous empires that follow the same exact tropes and characterisations. So now what was so special about the galactic empire again?
>Technology is meant to move forward right?
Not always. Ancient Greece and Rome had machines working with steam and shit. They didn't know what to do with them, though. Byzantium had some kind of flame throwers. After the fall of the Western Roman Empire it took until the 18th century to have steam engines.
Also aesthetic and actual perfomance are not always the same (look at cars in the 40s and the 80s).
the universe is small as fuck in JJs land
it should be noted Kylo Ren isn't actually working for the FO, he's only working WITH them because Snoke says so
>Not always. Ancient Greece and Rome had machines working with steam and shit. They didn't know what to do with them, though. Byzantium had some kind of flame throwers. After the fall of the Western Roman Empire it took until the 18th century to have steam engines.
Everyone knows what the Dark Ages are you fuckwit.
from a narrative sense unless it's something like "lost civilisation", going backwards doesn't make for good story telling.
Alien had 80s tech while it's supposed to be after Prometheus, which had futuristic shit. It sometimes just doesn't make sense because plebs don't care..
There was still technological progresses and "scientific" (for the lack of a better term) during the medieval era. People still invented stuff. But the point was that progress isn't a linear thing.
The Empire as "the dark times" for the galaxy, and the aesthetics of the OT reflect that in retrospect.
if tis not in the TFA movie its not canon
the novelizations are full damage control after witnessing what a hack JJ is.
That isn't really how canon works. The first book that describes actually came out a few months before TFA. Its intended to supplement it and be just as canon
Books and comic tie ins are fucking lazy way to patch up fucked up storytelling in your main media. Fuck anybody who buys them, stop getting double dipped and bailing their incompetence out in the process