Why does Gandalf chase after the Balrog?

Why does Gandalf chase after the Balrog?

He was the guide of the fellowship and its most knowledgeable and valuable member. Why leave that all aside to kill a demon in a cave?

He fell

He was a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The dark fire did not avail the Flame of Udun. That's why

Are you incapable of answering without memes?

But he literally fell. It's not like he just hopped off the bridge to go chase the thing, it pulled him down.

And he fought it until he was on top of the fucking mountain.

He certainly had a chance to escape.

you don't even know what a meme is you piece of shit

Balrog didn't tip.

In the books it's explained that the chasms of Moria go SO far down into the Earth that there are Lovecraftian horrors gnawing at the roots of the world. It was more than Gandalf was prepared to deal with, so he just held tight to the balrog and let it take him back to the surface. Of course, when they were out in the open it burst back into flames and he had to kill it.

The Balrog isn't just some demon. It's a being on the same level as Gandalf and Sauron.

So Gandalf hitched a ride on the Balrog like one of those parasitic fish that cling to Sharks and the Balrog didn't even realise he was there?

Of course the Balrog realized he was there, he had his sword jammed in its fucking body.

because it was one of the greatest threats in middle earth

gandalf wanted smaug dead because of the danger of him joining forces with sauron

same principle for the balrog except its even more powerful than a dragon ie needs to dealt with

Gandalf ahd no idea where they were going, he was just following the Balrog. For example they end up on the top of the mountain by taking the Endless Stair, which had become a legend no one knew where it was.

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So what it just climbed all out of the water and all the way back up the mountain swatting at the Gandalf climbing all over him?

The Balrog is essentially a fallen angel, one of the most dangerous entities from primordial times on par with the wizards and Sauron (They're all Maia). If the Balrog was unleashed upon the world it would be like a second Sauron (Although Sauron was usually more deceptive whereas the Balrogs were more brute force-oriented)
You could argue that dispatching Durin's Bane was part of Gandalf's duty, in a way.

But what happened was, they fell and fell until they hit the bottom in the deepest reaches of the earth. The Balrog's flames were extinguished and it became a creature made of slime. They were stuck down there together but the Balrog had found the stairs and tried to flee, so Gandalf followed, leading to the fight on the mountain. I don't see any alternative possibility here.

>Balrog
>more powerful than a dragon

Please, Smaug destroyed a the lake town in a matter of minutes.

The Balrog was more concerned with all the shit that lurked around in the dark and just wanted to get the fuck out of there. It couldn't afford to be concerned with the man on it's back.

balrogs are immune to normal weaponry. no one in middle earth would be able to kill it apart from gandalf or maybe galadriel

The dragons were some of Morgoth's experiments, and Smaug was hardly a shadow of the dragons from the old times.
The Balrogs were actual corrupted Maiar, though. Literally divine beings turned into a horrifying demon vanguard.

yes, and compared to balrog he still was a weak bitch

what was the Balrog's tax policy?
he clearly was the leader of those orcs in the mines but why would them follow a Balrog? whas he a good leader?

I don't remember the text ever saying that Durin's Bane or Gandalf were particularly concerned about the creatures in the depths. Gandalf just said that there were "nameless things" that had gnawed the tunnels through the earth, through which he pursued the Balrog. The Balrog was more likely attempting to evade Gandalf (It had been slumbering since surviving war under Morgoth, and now has to deal with a confrontation with Gandalf) and to get out of the cold and wet since it was a being of fire.

He conducted a ban on the dwarf people which he used as a scapegoat for the real problems in the Moria. The main one being that it's a shit hole.

since when is "he fell" a meme?

He was more of a nuke that they accidentally set off.

>and the Balrog didn't even realise he was there?

How is it possible for one person to be this stupid?

>all this great LotR lore

Fuck me, I gotta read some LotR material besides Children of Hurin sometime.

Elrond, Glordfinel, Cereborn. Bombadil if he could be fucked. Saruman. some more elves that were not named as well, there were pkenty of First Age motherfuckers in Rivendell and Lorien.

God you are fucking retarded. Have you even read LOTR??

Your mother's decision not to abort you is a more glaring example.

galadriel was the most powerful elf, said to be the only one that still possessed the strength of the First Age Noldor. elves fade over time and become weaker, not even elrond would be capable of defeating a balrog. saruman possibly but he would be more concerned about making an ally out of it

you clearly havent

That's not the case at all, quit reading extra shit into the text. See

Glordfinel was still able to take on all Nazgul solo at the same time during LOTR, they still had some power in them.

Why don't you just finish the fucking books, Martin?

Glorfindel was stronger than he was before he died.

>For long years he remained in Valinor, in reunion with the Eldar who had not rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar. To these he had now become almost an equal, for though he was an incarnate (to whom a bodily form not made or chosen by himself was necessary) his spiritual power had been greatly enhanced by his self-sacrifice.

he taxed being worshipped as god and served by goblins in exchange for not exterminating them. he was an anarcho-primitivist at heart

>Glordfinel was still able to take on all Nazgul solo at the same time during LOTR

>On foot even Glorfindel and Aragorn together could not with stand all the Nine at once.

i mean it wasnt like they were hopeless, far from it. but to give an example in the siege of gondolin several balrog were slain; they no longer possessed that kind of power. but ye they were still relatively strong, during the war of the ring men hadnt completely usurped them yet

glorfindel's a special case, he died slaying a balrog, and may indeed have been able to kill one again
ill agree with you on that: gandalf, galadriel glorfindel
but thats why gandalf had to pursue it when given the opportunity, if only he and perhaps two others were capable of banishing it then he had to try

>but thats why gandalf had to pursue it when given the opportunity
Once again, Gandalf never had any choice but to pursue the Balrog. He had no idea where he was, he literally says chasing the Balrog was his only hope. Maybe he would have chosen to keep fighting the Balrog, or maybe not, but he never had that choice.

The Balrog was literally holding on to his leg with a whip. You need to see past the way things were shown in the movies and instead seem them the way they are in the books.

In the books Gandalf isn't a frail old man, he's capable of incredible feats of strength, he's a lesser angel not a man- that being said with the full weight of the Balrog bearing on him he could only hold on for so long. Afterwards he plunged after it and destroyed it after fighting it all the way to the peak of the mountain.


There's something else to note here, had the Balrog escaped it would have almost certainly gone to Sauron and served him. There wasn't a single being in ME save Gandalf, Saruman, or fucking Tom that could have fought the Balrog.

thats beside the point
he needed to escape the 'foundations of stone' yes
that doesnt change the fact that after escape, he would have to slay the balrog, its irrelevant

but wasnt Balrog content with sitting on his ass in Moria? if he wanted to serve Sauron, wouldn't he had left long time before fellowship arrived to seek Sauron out?

wasnt aware of the ring until it encountered the fellowship in moria

The Balrog is an intelligent being, as intelligent as Sauron and Gandalf. The Balrog was happy beneath The Mountain because it was his and the chances of someone coming to fuck him up was incredibly low. Guess what, someone came to fuck him up, in the middle of what is essentially enemy territory. If the Balrog escaped Moria he'd have no where to run without making himself a target. Fleeing to aid Sauron or fucking off into the North are the only real options something like the Balrog has.

Would the balrog even want to serve Sauron? Balrogs served Morgoth who wanted to destroy shit, while Sauron wants dominion over shit. Not really the same goals there.

They're roughly on the same power level also.

Maybe I'm retarded but how come after falling for like a week they landed on some snowy mountain with a castle? Was this some kind of weird literally "deepest lore" place at the center of the earth, like in Dante's Inferno? Or did they somehow fly back up.

>Lovecraftian nightmares
The term is "eldritch abominations".

not really theyre both maiar but sauron was second only to morgoth, being the greatest of his lieutenants

They don't fall for a week. They land in water deep underground, and spend a week fighting, with the Balrog running and Gandalf pursuing, until they reach the top of the mountain, the Balrog decides to turn and fight, and then they kill each other.

nah, they're both Maia, but Sauron is much more powerful than any Balrog.

I was always very interested by these "nameless things". Was the Watcher in the Water one of them or a separate thing? How powerful are they? Should they be afraid of the Balrog and Gandalf or should it be the other way around? So many questions...

they climbed the 'Endless Stair' which winds from the lowest depths of moria to the peak of zirakzigil, one of the 3 mountains moria is built under. isnt shown in the films, which does make it slightly confusing

The mine just got ten feet deeper make moria great again

Why did they cut Glorfindel from the movie?

The same reason they cut a bunch of other shit: nobody fucking knows except maybe it made the movie too long

the watchers a separate thing. theyre creations of morgoth that have taken residence in the deeps

Probably. Gandalf speculates it someone got from the water underground Moria to the lake.

Arven needed more screentime to establish her character and relation to Aragorn. film making-wise Jackson made a good decision to cut him imo

Wasn't Gothmog in charge of Morgoth's armies though? Plus no one has ever survived a fight with a Balrog, but Sauron got his finger cut off by a man while wearing the one ring.

What was the point of Glorfindel in the book? He's gets this big introduction in Fellowship and then disappears completely. He doesn't even go with Elrond's sons to help Aragorn. Nor does he go help Galadriel or Thranduil.

>theyre creations of morgoth

the origins of the watcher are never mentioned by tolkien

>the watchers a separate thing. theyre creations of morgoth
Why are people so eager just to make shit up?

Here is the only thing written on the Watcher:

>What was the thing, or were there many of them? '
>'I do not know,' answered Gandalf, 'but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' He did not speak aloud his thought that whatever it was that dwelt in the lake, it had seized on Frodo first among all the Company.

being the general does not make it the most powerful

was talking about nameless. but all evil creatures in middle earth are manifestations of morgoth's will or his direct creations, they all derive from him

>Sauron overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad, who perish. Isildur takes the One Ring.

>all evil creatures in middle earth are manifestations of morgoth's will or his direct creations
Shelob wasn't. lake cthulhu could have been it's own thing as well

Ungoliant says otherwise.

a product of morgoth. darkness and evil was planted in the world by him in the very creation of middle earth

ungoliants a special case doesnt apply, watcher doesnt compare

>"All evil creatures derive from Morgoth"
>No, here's an example of one that doesn't
>"That doesn't count"

well it doesnt
its a being comes from outside arda

The nameless things gnawing the earth seem to pretty clearly be outside of the scope of the Ainur's creations. They aren't even established to be malicious in any way. They just dwell in the deep dark places and chew away at the earth. Tolkien most likely intended it as a throwaway line to imply that there are dark things that exist outside of any knowledge or lore if you delve deep enough.

One of the reasons Shelob is one of my faves.
LotR is a world where God Is Real and he has decided Shit Shall Be Thus, then here comes this abomination that everyone at least is wary of, if not outright fear, saying 'fuck you' merely by existing.
It's so good.

Whoops. Confused Ungoliant and Shelob again.

I always had the impression the balrog (and thus Gandalf) were scared of the nameless things, even though I know not much is said about them.
It's been a while though and I'm probably getting it mixed up with some other thing.

Also what's up with nearly every bad hombre being a Maia of Aule the Smith before they turned to evil? Sauron and Saruman being two examples. Did Aule fuck up by trying to create his own master race?

Here is the ONLY THINGS written about the Watcher and the "Nameless Things."

> Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin's folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day.

>'I do not know,' answered Gandalf, 'but the arms were all guided by one purpose. Something has crept, or has been driven out of dark waters under the mountains. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.'

Anyone making any other claims about them is lying.

Not gonna lie "I will make no report about them" could be read as him being airless scared. Of corse it could also mean they're not relevant and Men don't need to know.

That's what you get for phoneposting. A little* not airless.

maybe talking about those horrors would have driven Legolas Aragorn and Gimli insane in lovecraftian style

Nice quads, checked.

Moriara and the endless stait always makes me think of dwarf fortress

He didn't hitch a ride on the balrog lol, it specifically says he chased it up the never ending stairs to the top of the mountain

No you clearly haven't, 2 have been killed in one on one combat with elves. One using his spiked helmet to kill it and another who wrestled it off a cliff

Never knew about this, sounds incredibly cool.

So what is this chasm in Moria really? Did the dwarves dig almost to the center of the Earth or was the cavity already there? Also, who built these Endless Stairs they go up with, and what are these creatures and who do they serve?

>Being two examples
They're the only examples. The reason for this is that Tolkien disliked industrialization, though. Aule represented craftsmanship and smithing and all sorts of creation. His subordinates weren't evil originally. Sauron's original wishes seem to have been to do with order/control, and Morgoth most likely corrupted those desires into evil. Saruman was even more clearly tied to manufacturing and industry.

in the appendices peter jackson states that if it didnt have to explicitly do with the characters development, or the overral destroying the ring plot, then they can cut it. specifically cutting tom was intentional cause he adds absolutely nothing other than his existence.

A bit of both. The dwarves most likely dug so deep that they came across places tunneled by creatures of the deep. We don't know about them, and they don't have anything to do with the story, they don't seem to serve anyone or have any allegiance. I always took it that they were mindless altogether.

YOU THINK SOME DEMON IN A CAVE PULLED THIS OFF??

OPEN YOUR EYES

THERE WERE EXPLOSIONS SEEN AT THE BASE OF THE BRIDGE BEFORE THE BALROG EVEN HIT HIM

but it's when they meet Tom that they get their swords and the one that allows to kill the bad guy in the third movie

THE FLAME OF ANOR CANNOT MELT STONE BEAMS

Sometimes I forget why I even visit 4chins anymore..

Oh yeah, that's why

Whilst not exactly a bad hombre, didn't he have a hand in creating the silmarils? But I get what your saying, especially about the industrialisation. Just seemed like the dude couldn't catch a break, everything he did just got fucked up.

These things never seemed very scary after learning about Eru Iluvatar and shit..maybe if they were something that was above the gods or something parallel, but they weren't

the chasm was a natural phenomenon, but the stairs iirc were built by Morgoth in the First Age as part of the extensive underground labyrinth branching off from his main fortress far to the north

He wanted to keep all those experience points to himself

LOL!!!! XD

>tfw you will never cross the door of night.

Why, you're not relating to the gods in the story are you? From a mortal perspective they're scary.

>They were not made by Durin's folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day.

This seems superstitious in the same way that Gandalf refuses to speak about Mordor, Sauron and The Nine at night. And you could infer he figures the others are better off not knowing. The bit about these things being older than Sauron is very cool.