I understood this movie perfectly and there are only 2 plot holes as I see them, maybe 3

I understood this movie perfectly and there are only 2 plot holes as I see them, maybe 3.

Why 12 ships?
If they can se all events, they already know who is going to help them, and they should be able to only send one ship to the required location.

Why did old mate die?
Surely if they see the future they could have made some C4 proof glass? Saved an alien life?

How did the girl learn Chinese wives last words?
only actual plot hole. She had the language so she was able to eventually decipher the language giving her the future data required to answer the pasts questions, that's a sound assumption. But it's pretty crazy to assume somewhere along the line she met the Chinese general and witnessed her last words, or was told them by the General. Too big of an assumption.

Otherwise pretty solid movie, beautiful ending, my mum cried.

>inb4 why didn't they just help themselves
If you were a doctor, could you cure cancer if given the time frame of 10 seconds? They simply could not solve their problem on their own in the time frame available.

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>only actual plot hole. She had the language so she was able to eventually decipher the language giving her the future data required to answer the pasts questions, that's a sound assumption. But it's pretty crazy to assume somewhere along the line she met the Chinese general and witnessed her last words, or was told them by the General. Too big of an assumption.
did you not see the fucking movie?

Did she tell her husband about the fact that their child will get a disease and die?

Mhm?

That's why he left her.

>If they can se all events, they already know who is going to help them, and they should be able to only send one ship to the required location.
They wanted humanity to work together.

>Surely if they see the future they could have made some C4 proof glass? Saved an alien life?
The future already happened, you can't change it. There is no such thing as free will.

>How did the girl learn Chinese wives last words?
He whispered the words in her ear in the future because he knew he had to for some reason.

>They wanted humanity to work together.
But they expressly did not.

>The future already happened, you can't change it. There is no such thing as free will.
What? You are literally wrong, the whole movie is about choice. Kek, she chose to have her diseased baby, as she saw the happiness she has, and it brings to her life and her fathers.

Her Father chooses to leave her with the words "I chose wrong", after her telling her what lies in store. That's an intellectual cop out.

>He whispered the words in her ear in the future because he knew he had to for some reason.

Literally the only plot hole, as I said earlier. She had to have known the words already, she had given the language to it's easy to assume in the years leading up to the writing of the book she had deciphered it, but where did she gain her last words, they put a paradox in.

>But they expressly did not.
Well, 2 did, the Chinese and American. What about the other 10, what happened with the Aussie one?

I assume aliens are not actually sentient at this point, maybe they never were. You can call their existence a high functioning instinct. They don't really understand what they are doing, they just remember things how they are. I do not believe a sentient being can exist for so long knowing the inevitability of their future, it destroys the mind and the notion of free will that makes us sentient to begin with. Louise has not gone mad only because she doesn't "fully" understood the language, so she can see non-linearity here and there, but she cannot exist at all times all the time like they do.

Arrival is part of a recent series of movies I'd describe as Dunning-Kruger Sci-Fi. Along with Interstellar and to a somewhat lesser extent The Martian, they perfectly play to the crowd that fancies themselves as (and, to be fair, may truly be) smarter than average audiences but are not as smart as genuinely "smart people." They are movies designed to make the audience feel smart by introducing complicated and heady concepts, and then holding the viewer's hand the entire way through until there is next to nothing to be left up to interpretation.

If you didn't already know the twist in Arrival by the time she was in the milky section of the ship with the aliens AT LEAST, you perfectly fit the audience I am talking about.

There is no reward for being smart while viewing these movies because everything is eventually spelled out in big fridge magnet letters. Any clever idea is made so transparent that even the most simple in the audience will get it. It also removes any reward for rewatching or trying to figure out what you just saw.

Granted, there is a difference between Arrival and Interstellar. I think where Interstellar was pretending to have a brain it actually didn't have, Arrival has a brain that it is refusing to let the audience use.

Completely disappointing movie.

Also
>so that just happened

>But they expressly did not.
China has called an emergency press conference... General shang, commander in chief of the people's liberation army has announced in an emergency press conference that China is standing down...all intelligence they've received will be shared immediately.
>all intelligence they've received will be shared immediately.

>Literally the only plot hole, as I said earlier.
This is literally the most common "time travel" paradox in sci-fi, how new are you.

>he actually posts copy pasta
Kek. Go tell ya mum that you did it again and everyone is so proud.

They're just trying to explain to humans that there is no time.

Are you actually retarded?

>>They wanted humanity to work together.
>But they expressly did not.
They did though.

What did the aliens need help with in 3000 years?

I only want mature experts with supreme field knowledge to respond to this post.

Absolutely zero chemistry between Adams and Renner. None whatsoever.

I actually feel insulted.

China and America did. You could effectively cut the number of ships to 2, maybe 3, including Russia as well.

This is the only thing I wanted to see, a short cut of Alien home planet being destroyed by global warming or something.

Only mature experts with supreme field knowledge know that your question is irrelevant.

>You could effectively cut the number of ships to 2, maybe 3, including Russia as well.
How would you know that? It was a convoluted process.

Personally I put my truth in the aliens that can see 3000 years into our future.

this guy is retarded

>China and America did.
We can imagine humanity work together in the future after that experience. Why can't you understand something that easily understable.

Delete this post at once and never speak to me again, or I will mute your account.

I can't even tell if people are pretending to be retarded anymore

>i didn't understand it/they didn't outright tell me in clear text so it must be a plot hole

kills yourself now. you're not meant to know everything. these aren't plot holes.

We saw the events relevant to to story? Are you implying shit happened relevant to the story which we didn't see in the movie? Which was not even referenced?

Literally nothing happened with any of the other nations ships, except some learning. America had literally all the working knowledge, the only thing China and Russia had was the threat to destroy their aliens, which was averted by America (FUCK YEAH). Can you even name where the other 9 ships were? One was in Venezuela and Australia, that's all I know, they did not need 12.

They most certainly can see the future, which still begs the question, why send so many ships when so many were useless, why not reinforce the glass so old mate alien doesn't fucking die, something which you see coming.

i choose to label them as retards and move on, makes things simpler for me.

Why do you need 10 other ships, when only the interaction between China and America are the ones to cause Humanities coming together, how can you not see that?

How did the ship in venezuela affect humanities coming together?

>We saw the events relevant to to story? Are you implying shit happened relevant to the story which we didn't see in the movie? Which was not even referenced?
Yes? Have you literally not seen a single movie before this?

Did we see the aliens planning and coming to the conclusion on why they decided upon those landing places? No. They had their reasons. Also the numbers of ships is irrelevant, holy shit you are fucking retarded.

they want help to help humanity help themselves

Why didn't the aliens just drop down a letter using a seagull or maybe an eagle?

Kek. So what you are saying. Is shit happen din the movie, not referenced within the movie, and then actions happened which affected the story based o these underlying actions, which we will never know.

Not the event which actually happened (the interactions between China and America)

But the Hidden interactions between Venezuela, Australia, Manila all the other ones which for some reason, they didn't need to show.

Right, and I'm retarded.

xD

>international diplomatic crisis
>countries communicate via a Skype group
That was the moment I knew I was watching a flick.

A first mainstream blockbuster -tier film that has metanarrative and Sup Forums doesn't understand.

It is pure pleb filter.

>Surely if they see the future they could have made some C4 proof glass? Saved an alien life?
If you can see the future you cannot change it BY DEFINITION.
>How did the girl learn Chinese wives last words?
Because for some reason they had to shoehorn in a time travel paradox for all the Interstellar fans.

Renner's info monologue was what demoted it from a movie to a flick for me. Disappointing since the hype had me expecting a movie that might move up to film category.

...

They dropped at least one ship in each continent so the world would create something like the United Nations. When they show the scene where Chinese general gives her the critical info the flags of each country that had a ship were on the wall along with an alien flag. I took this as a worldwide alliance of some sort

>Surely if they see the future they could have made some C4 proof glass? Saved an alien life?
Maybe the events with Louise wouldn't never happen the same way if it wasn't for it though.

>Kek, she chose to have her diseased baby
Lol, great way to flaunt your stupidity, my millenial friend.

>ow did the ship in venezuela affect humanities coming together?
The aliens thought Chavez was still alive and sent the ship there to enjoy the drama and keks he would create

>If you can see the future you cannot change it BY DEFINITION.
Then what are the aliens doing?

They see their end, come to humanity to help them, i.e changing their future.

If they can't change their future, then going to the humans to help them survive is literally pointless, because they can't change the fact they are going to die.

Which they obviously can, as the whole movie is based upon changing your future, but changing not to.

Aliens chose to change their future, the woman did not and chose to bring a diseased baby into life, something runner hated her for.

The whole movie is expressly about changing your future, did you not catch the last lines of the movie where the girl is asking "if you could see your future would you change it?"

To which render essentially says "not everything".

Don't even get me started on the amateur CGI effects used for the Chinese military offensive sequence.

It was like watching Battlefield.

She didn't choose. She has no choice. She is a character in a film, that just has the privy to see her script and narrative.

There is no free will. That is why alien is death process

>She had to have known the words already
Everything in time happens simultaneously therefore she knew the words before even calling him, because that didn't necessarily happened in linear time such as we perceive it

Kek, those spelling mistakes.

I am on my sisters MAC. forgive me.

>They see their end

You are assuming that

Meant Battleship.

Did the aliens draw their language using their ejaculate? That means they would have to climax every time they wanted to write something

No, they are not changing their future you fucking mongoloid. They foresee that in they will need humanity's help in 3000 years or whatever, so they do what they have to do. That means they did not see their own death, because they saw humanity helping them. You. Fucking. Scrub.
>the last lines of the movie where the girl is asking "if you could see your future would you change it?"

THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT. SHE SAW IT, SHE SAW THAT HER HUSBAND WOULD LEAVE HER AND THAT HER DAUGHTER WOULD DIE OF CANCER, BUT SHE DIDN'T "CHANGE" IT, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE FUTURE.
SEEING THE FUTURE MEANS SEEING A PRE-DETERMINED PATH OF EVENTS.
YOU CANNOT CHANGE THAT BY. FUCKING. DEFINITION.
YOU FUCKING NIGGER.

It was squid ink, get your mind out of the gutter.

>average Sup Forums criticism

The sad part is I can never tell what's bait anymore

Uh-huh.

But even if times not lingerer, you can see everything, things still have to happen.

Like, this is a literal plot hole. If you remember the scene where the daughter is asking for the technical definition of a 'win-win', there is a time between the answer as the women needs to learn (in the past) the definition of a win-win. That makes sense. She learnt win-win, and it influenced the future.

She never actually learnt the Chinese generals wives last words, as she learnt the words from the aliens, as she learn the definition from (renner?)

They put this paradox in when they showed events to deny this paradox, it's a strange hole.

So only Amy Adams can actually travel around her timeline because the aliums shared their ink with her? Or can everyone do that when they understand the language?

he isn't. but you probably are

>Is shit happen din the movie, not referenced within the movie, and then actions happened which affected the story based o these underlying actions, which we will never know.
Yes? Also we don't need to know.
>Not the event which actually happened (the interactions between China and America)
An event that happened based on plans made by the aliens which you have not seen. These are inter-dimensional beings that can see time in all directions. You just saw tidbits.
>Right, and I'm retarded.
Correct.

When you "immerse" yourself in a language it rewires your brain according to this movie and some theory. I assume that if anyone becomes fluent in it like she did then they get alien powers.

>the aliens didn't even get the chance to try kebab, pizza or a well made cheese burger before leaving earth

If you think this movie is smart you probably have a degree in liberal arts.

>kebab
>not gyros

Why do the aliens have such a hard time communicating when they can see the future where they already understand humans?

better than your no degree at all.

why would a squid want pizza?

would you like space oil as food?

Kek, watch more movies.

99% of movies do not have actions happening behind the scenes which effect the overall plot of the movie in ways you are saying. I understand exactly what you are saying. But this movie made literally no moves to express this point of view that you are.

I mean keep going.

This is your argument
>they didn't show it
>but it happened
>and you're a retard

In every measurable metric, the only nations which influenced these events where China, America and Russia. I mean fuck, there is a literal segment where they say they have no fucking idea why they landed where they did.

But I'm retarded, because I can't do the mental gymnastics you can which connects invisible dots.

Because it's a stupid fucking movie with a retarded concept that falls apart under the most minor scrutiny.

at one point they must learn the language, just like at one point amy had to learn the phone number. maybe they won't understand humans beyond this date. maybe humans will stick with the alien language from now on. maybe this is their way of shitposting.

>he doesn't believe in determinism

amy adams knew you'd say that.

>only 2 plot holes
>maybe 3

This movie wasn't about determinism though. She has the free will to not get with the guy and prevent bringing a cancer child into the world but chose to do it anyway.

It really doesn't. Unless you are a retard and connect narrative to directing/film making. Which you obviously can't cuz you have low cinematic IQ.

>She has the free will.
No the character does not have free will. Her life is literally in the script and she can't change it. Ata

i have a little bit of a crush on amy adams
that is all

She has the free will to kill herself so humanity never learns the dumb alien language.

>In every measurable metric
every measurable metric IN THE MOVIE. _you are literally arguing against arguments you haven't even seen_. they didn't include the planning phase of the aliens in the script because it's not needed, it's not relevant at all to us. in any way.
>But this movie made literally no moves to express this point of view that you are.
why should they? the numbers of ships is irrelevant to us. perhaps they wanted a bit of mystique in it. these inter-dimensional beings may know what they're doing and we don't.
>there is a literal segment where they say they have no fucking idea why they landed where they did.
yes. that is the point. we don't know. you don't either.
>But I'm retarded
Again, yes.

do the aliens understand breakdancing?

Arrival was a flick disguised as a film

i would say it was a movie trying to pass as kino

Good lord you are all so fucking braindead retarded. This is the dumbest film discussion forum I've ever come across.

>Literally the only plot hole
>hey put a paradox in

A time paradox is a plot hole? In sci fi movie about predicting the future, really?

Is this your first sci fi movie, user?

youtube.com/watch?v=G8U21reHexg&t=3s

why do people keep thinking this is a good movie? am I just in a neverending loop?

>every arrival thread
>"heh look at this minor inconsistency/piece of dialogue, confirmed pseudo intellectual crap"
>but it was a beautiful film with a powerful message
>"heh its all style no substance kid"
>but its got beautiful cinematography, an immersive soundtrack, and good performances but its actors
>"you must be a millennial cuck to think this movie is smart"
>I didn't say it was smart, I said it was beautiful
>"yeah but renner's info dump so the plebs don't get lost in a big budgets films plot was terrible"
>Agreed but I understand why it was there it also interferes in the films message in no way
>"YEAH BUT IT WAS A FLAW I NOTICED HAHAH FLAVOR OF THE MONTH!!!"
>All films have flaws, there was beauty here and the film spoke to the human condition
>"HAHA YEAH BUT IT DOESN'T APPLY TO NECKBEARDS LIKE ME WHO NEVER LEAVE THEIR BASEMENT HAAHAHHAH"
>That is your own prerogative, the fact is losing a child is a pain that many go through and this film has a beautiful message about how the end is never the end
>"HAHA NO ITS ALL ABOUT DETERMINISM AND FULL OF PLOT HOLES , THE CHILD SCENES ARE DUMB AND GO ON TOO LONG"
>but amy adams expressly states she choose to still have the child despite knowing it would die because she can understand that it was all a part of the bigger picture, the child scenes were the narrative bridge and important to the structure
>"HAHAH NO ITS PLEB SHIT LMAO"
>but plebs seem to hate it and totally miss the point of the movie much like yourself
>"ME A PLEB HAHA NO I'M VERY PATRICIAN REEEE!" *MAN BUN BECOMES DISHEVELED*

>watched it two times
>Didn't realize she had the child AFTER the main plot of the movie until someone on Sup Forums points it out

you fuck up that strawman, bro, you fuck him up hard!

>every measurable metric IN THE MOVIE. _you are literally arguing against arguments you haven't even seen_. they didn't include the planning phase of the aliens in the script because it's not needed, it's not relevant at all to us. in any way.

Holy shit senpai, the planning phase of th easiness isn't nearly as important as the coming together of humanity, as a level of story important.

>why should they? the numbers of ships is irrelevant to us. perhaps they wanted a bit of mystique in it. these inter-dimensional beings may know what they're doing and we don't.
Kek.

>yes. that is the point. we don't know. you don't either.
No I don't because they don't show, you fucking do though. Kek.

Here is what you are saying
>A movie doesn't need to show the events which are instrumental to the plot (events which literally never happen) because you can see them as it fits your mental narrative.

>Again, yes.
And if my grandma had wheels she would be a bicycle. Feel free to stop at any time, since you know, you're argument is literally
>They do not need to show the events which are entered around the plot, all other irrelevant events can be showed though

Like, you literally have no point to be made. If you argument is
>I don't know why they did
THat's fair as fuck, neither do I that's the point, we were not shown something so pivotal to the story, it makes literally no fucking sense for aliens who can see the future to be wasteful with resources and inefficient with time and planning. But I mean it makes sense yo you, cause you r n xpert nd i r reatrd xD.

You are taking a simple cop out.

Why don't you leave then? Oh wait you can. no one can

>uh uhm uh eh something i don't know just basically uh eh it's just dumb
kek this fucking guy. he should learn how to talk before he makes videos about movies he didn't understand.

>I understood the movie perfectly
Seems you didn't because non of those are plot holes.

You understand they showed events and scenes which work against this plot hole which they worked in anyway. a time paradox is not a plot hole no, when you show events which deny this paradox and then put in the paradox, that's a literal plot hole. I would be fine with this scene, had they not shown win win, had they not actually given her the language to eventually learn, had they actually implemented the paradox, and not throwing it in as a last resort.

*Man bun becomes disheveled*

>No I don't because they don't show
exactly. so you don't know. yet you argue anyway. against something you don't know. very silly, user.

>film
>discussion
>forum
2.3/18 fer effort

...

Ahh, so this is how dumb the average hater of arrival is. Good to know

Holy shit how retarded are you

My argument is literally, they did not show it so therefore it's not relevant to the story

Your argument is

They didn't show it but it happened if you missed it your a retard

Right, in that information black out humanity came together as needed, it certainly wasn't AFTER the aliens left that humanity came together, it was during, in those hidden meetings all the nations had together off screen which so heavily influenced the overall story, which we didn't see.

But I mean, continue. This is actually fun.

Plenty of influential scientists, authors, and table tennis players disliked it.

>this shows the average poster of Sup Forums
>didn't even read the post

>specific plot points or lines of dialogue make or break a film

absolutely 100% pleb Sup Forums

The funny thing is that all those things are because of the fucking writer.

>In the first drafts of the script, the "gifts" to humanity were meant to be different pieces of technology given to each landing site, with the U.S. receiving plans for a spaceship capable of faster than light travel, China receiving a design that revolutionizes life support, Venezuela getting the key to manipulating gravity, Japan receiving a way of creating water from air, Britain receiving the formula to build a composite hull that is impervious to cosmic radiation, and Saudi Arabia getting celestial coordinates. However, this was all changed when Denis Villeneuve saw Interstellar (2014) and told the screenwriter to change the "gifts" to something else, in order to avoid similarities between the two films.

>In the novella, "Stories of Your Life" by Ted Chiang, nine "looking glasses" arrive in America, a total of 112 worldwide. The film reduces that number and alters the dimensions to more profound effect.

>The original drafts of the script did not have anything specifically written for the final part of exchange between General Shang and Louise. Before filming, director'Denis Villeneuve' asked Eric Heisserer to write "a line that would save the world" for the final part of the exchange, spoken in Mandarin. Heisserer said he spent weeks perfecting the final line between Louise and General Shang only to find that Villeneuve removed the subtitles for the scene in the final cut.

Hell, the movie was about to be made by a literally shit-tier who director before Villeneuve took the project. The film is good because Villeneuve change all the things he could while those problems were made by the fucking writer. I can't believe he got nominated to an Oscar jesus fucking christ

your argument is that it was a plothole to send 10 ships, even though you have no way of knowing why they sent 10 ships. my "argument" is that we don't see why they sent 10 ships, and since we only see a tiny fraction of the story, we would have no idea of knowing why they sent 10 ships.

but most importantly, it does not matter.