I know it's been said a million times, but in an odd way I like talking about it- how did JJ fuck up SO BAD?
I mean, even his Star Trek movies (2009>>>>>ID) are 10x better than TFA.
I really wonder what happened behind the scenes.
We know the project was rushed, we know that they sort of but not really scrapped Arndt's draft that he wrote off George's notes in favor of JJ, Kasdan and Pegg rewriting it resulting in a frankenstein monster of a script, etc..
Very intriguing stuff.
I STILL don't get why this place has such a hard-on for hating this movie.
Like, I can only imagine it's just the flat contrarianism this place is known for, at this point.
It's not perfect, sure, but worse than Into Darkness? Are you shitting me right now?
>It's not perfect, sure, but worse than Into Darkness?
Easily. ID is shit but harmless. TFA wrecks the galaxy and character assassinates both Luke and Han for the sake of JJ's need to have the pieces in place for his ANH redo.
Also, ID was at least entertaining in a brainless way. TFA was just disjointed and awful.
It's very good but very unoriginal. It's fun and entertaining in the safest sense but is nothing mind blowing.
What I don't understand is how people can like R1 despite being edge-tier junk that feels like it doesn't even belong in a Star Wars movie, except for the last 2 minutes where I literally orgasmed in the movie theatre
bump
(we're still pretending to hate this movie cause we're contrarians right guys? it was actually pretty good right?)
Yeah FUCK THIS MOVIE!!11!!1
Creative decisions were almost entirely profit motivated. Disney wanted to recreate the success of the Original Trilogy and were afraid to take risks due to the reception of the Prequels. George Lucas, who was originally a creative consultant, said he interested in moving the franchise in a different direction. However, Disney desired to "make something for the fans."
Feeling he wasn't wanted around, Lucas dropped out and his ideas were scrapped in favor of what we see in the final product. As a firm believer that the old boy is an excellent ideas man, I'm curious as to what Lucas had in mind. As history has shown, he works best when there are talented people around to refine his concepts and question him creatively.
>how did JJ fuck up SO BAD?
Simple. They didn't try. All they wanted to do was make an easy cash cow that was only better than the prequels (a pretty low bar) so what we ended up getting was a heartbreaking and lore breaking tragedy that only kept us briefly entertained to the immense amounts of blinding nostalgia and lens flare. This is the pinnacle of the soulless hollywood cash cow created solely for the sake of making money and nothing else. Makes me sick to my stomach.
But the PT is much better than the OT.
>They didn't try. All they wanted to do was make an easy cash cow
That's pretty stupid reasoning though.
That's a legitimate reason to dislike the movie on principle, but doesn't actually speak to the movie's quality in any way.
Nobody's asking "Do you object to this movie on principle?" we're asking "Why is it a bad movie?" which are two entirely separate subjects.
>easy cash cow
>doesn't speak to the movie's quality
>You disagree with the majority?! CONTRARIAN HEATHENS GET OFF MY BOARD! REEEEEEEE!
Truly Sup Forums quality posting right there.
The only thing people talk about from that movie is Darth Vader's scene. Thats it. Nostalgia shit.
>Episode 7 is a bad movie
>how did JJ fuck up SO BAD?
Because Disney dictated absolutely everything to him and Kasden.
I mean, it's Star Wars.
If "Cash Cow" had ANY salt as as a complaint, it was in 1983, and not a day later.
"Cash Cow" has basically been the unofficial title of the series since "The Keeper's World" was published in 1977.
First off, the movie simply looked bad and the sets looked like cheap Stargate tv series recycled sets, didn't look like alien planets at all, Jakku was okay but that's because it was a ripoff of Tatooine.
Second, photography.
Photography made it look like a cheap tv series, same problem first Avengers movie had, there's no artist at work here and it shows, I'm not saying they should have drown the movie in post-production blue/orange filters but as it was, it looked like a student project
Third, either you search for Luke or you have to destroy the Deathstar 3: Electric Boogaloo, you can't have both and still hope to keep the script good.
Fourth, no one likes Rey, she's uninteresting and her "Hero's journey" is pretty awful considering it's the first of a trilogy.
Fifth, the music.
All the tracks and the OST sound like remixes from some bored fan on youtube, even the prequels, as shit as they could be, were able to come up with stuff like Duel of the Fates because they let John Williams experiment.
This is my opinion.
It has the same problem the prequels did; insanely high expectations. Think about it, a sequel to RotJ actually exists, with the original characters. That's insane and something I've wanted for over 20 years. I could go watch it right now again if I want. But it sits in the same corner of my mind as "how did Anakin become Vader?". I know it's there, but it doesn't live up to decades of hype and head canon.
> Why is it a bad movie?
The Force Awakens has weak characters, the endless conveniences in the script, a forgettable score (music is pretty important in these films), and the pacing crumbles after the action leaves Jakku. Worse of all, the third act was just miserable. Even divorced from the fact that it's the fourth time we've seen a spherical super-weapon in this series, it is easily the most lackluster iteration to date and it completely derails the film (should have stuck to searching for Luke).
Rey is a bland, overpowered protagonist who kills tension. Finn is a depressing waste of potential as a character. And, although I understand what they were attempting, Kylo Ren is too ineffectual as a villain. Especially next to the hyper-competence of our heroine.
Finally, The Force Awakens negates the progress from the Original Trilogy. Only thirty years after the destruction of the Death Star II and death of The Emperor, we basically have the same circumstances again. And all of the core characters are back in their starting positions. Virtually everything we see here was done better prior and it's not like the Original Trilogy is obscure or something. Once the novelty wears off, I think will be less forgiving towards this film.
It's a good movie. Not perfect, but few are. The mental gymnastics you'd have to do to convince yourself it's truly "SO BAD" would render you clinically delusional and your opinion worthless.
Conclusion: Your thread won't have legs due to excess hyperbole.
TFA didn't pay attention when it ripped off ANH.
The Death Star works because it's established in the opening crawl and their are various scenes that call back to it leading up to the climatic trench run. It's an integral part of the plot.
Starkiller Base isn't mentioned or seemed until 50 minutes into the movie. The original plot of "Find Luke" is thrown out the window so the characters can have a cool battle against the starkiller base. The movie doesn't even bother to focus on the battle as it constantly cuts back to the duel between Rey and Kylo Ren.
Luke's force abilities in ANH are left ambiguous. You don't for sure if he actually used to the force to block the lasers, or if ti was just coincidence and good timing, you can't say for certain that he used the force to blow up the Death Star, it could've just been a good shot.
Rey reads Kylo Rens mind and then later uses the force to grab the skywalker saber. Shit doesn't add up.
ANH was pushing the limit when they had 5-10 ties and x-wings flying around on the screen. Groundbreaking tech.
TFA doesn't even try to push it, we still see 5 or 10 ties/x-wings flying around. Not to mention they forgot the y-wings.
TFA doesn't tell us Rey's lineage so that the next movie will have a "really dope" twist.
ANH told us who Luke's dad was, it never tried to hide it from us. The twist in ESB is good because the previous movie intentionally misled us to believe Vader killed Anakin.
There's alot more, but I'm just nitpicking at this point.
tl;dr TFA feels like it was made by people who watched ANH as a kids, never bothered to watched it again, and then tried to recreate it by memory. Also the movie was aesthetically fugly.
So the premise of your complaint was "It's too much like ANH" and then you "support" that argument by citing parts of TFA that were't similar enough to ANH?
Have I read that correctly?
My original point was tfa copied anh but they somehow made it worse. I must've started to ramble on.
But literally all of your examples of "Worse" are just how it doesn't compare directly to ANH.
For example, we don't actually know Rey is getting a BIG REVEAL about a family member, so why the fuck would they mention it? That's just an assumption on your part.
Who cares? I loved TFA. A bunch of people who didn't like changes nothing for me. I'm 27 and I've been watching star wars since the age of 3. I like all the movies.
I can make a good argument that TFA is good. It's a well made film. It just triggers people who had certain expectations. I had zero going into it.
Disney invested billions into this franchise. The first movie had to be a success. Anything completely new or too far from the original trilogy would bring on the risk of the same criticism that Lucas got for the prequels being too different. Everyone wanted things to go back to the OT. People wanted the same characters again. They went with the safest soft reboot possible. JJ had already proven that he can do it with star trek. Honestly, people complaining about TFA is nothing in comparison to trek fans complaining about the 2009 movie. It's really hard to blame JJ for what he did. At least they are doing different directors every time.
It wasn't just Disney either, LITERALLY EVERYBODY wanted something safe and familiar. It wasn't even two years ago that literally everybody on this exact site couldn't stop praising the decision of JJ on "Episode 7" specifically because he could do high adventure in space, AND he was great at emulating the old styles.
The last thing anyone wanted was a new Phantom Menace situation. Even here.
TFA apeing ANH was the best possible outcome for any potential Star Wars 7.
>we don't actually know Rey is getting a BIG REVEAL about a family member
I'm willing to gamble my right nut it'll happen.
Yes. Everyone wanted A New Hope 2.0. People just are never happy with results when it's something they have spent years developing preconceived expectations. A lot of star wars fans on Sup Forums are the hardcore EU fans who's perception of star wars is much different than people who are fans of the movies only. There are people here who legitimately looked at the EU as the official star wars story.
TFA was better than any other movie that came out in 2015, prove me wrong.
...
Because Star Wars is a flick series that has trascended to godhood.
You went into TFA expecting a cinematic masterpiece and got what the series has always been. A flick about it's contemporary times "fad"
The reason the first 3 are held so high isn't because of nostalgia or being overrated, but they ain't masterpieces either. They are flicks made in a time where the fad was pretty cool and the tropes felt fresh and self conscious enough to be taken seriously
The prequels are exactly the same, but made in the era where Linkin Park, Creed and George Bush were a fad. Therefore they are shit.
TFA is shit because it's a flick made in this era, in which all the tropes and fads are usually not the type that the Sup Forums user likes.
It is profoundly idiotic to have Luke be a complete failure, Han and Leia divorced with an edgy school shooter kid and the Republic having some random capital world that gets wiped out from across the galaxy by an even larger Death Star.
I mean if someone told you this is going to be the return to glory of the SW franchise you'd be flipping your shit instantly, but the Disney hype machine managed to sell it.
Not to mention that Episode 6 was called Return of the Jedi and Episode 8 is already The Last Jedi.
Good job Luke.
The Force literally has to shit out another chosen one to unfuck everything.
The majority of people loved TFA. Honestly only autists have an issue with the movie. Also for a movie that's so damn hated it's been non stop talk about this movie since release. Always on this board.
The titles are not wrong though. Anakin returned to the light and died as jedi. Luke refused the seduction of the dark side, and accepted that he was a Jedi in the end. The Jedi returned and lived on through Luke. If it was not for him, the rebel alliance and everyone would have died, with no Jedi left and only the Sith ruling the Empire.
The Last Jedi just means that he is still the last jedi. Yoda tells Luke that he is the last jedi in Return of the Jedi, so there is continuity. Luke is not a failure, he is the last jedi and the one who defeated the Sith and is the biggest hero of the war.
Literally every EU post-episode 6 rellied on a new bad threat coming back. It's star wars, did you expect everyone to just sing kumbaya in this movie?
The chosen one prophecy was not even in the original trilogy. It referred to in the prequels and never really expanded on in detail. Yoda even said that it might have been misinterpreted. If you take out the prequels, then the chosen one has literally no argument. Besides, they already explained that bringing balance to the force only meant to destruction of the Sith.
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>But the PT is much better than the OT.
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