WW2 Air Combat

Ignoring production and based simply on technical innovation and piloting skill, what country was the best at air warfare in WW2?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Philippine_Sea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Shilling
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

anyone have that wing cut webm?

Yanks, I'm sorry to admit.

Complete dominance.

RAF
late war probably
USAF

Luftwaffe late war.

>me262

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces
Germany, only a couple of bad strategic decisions, exhausted manpower and time stopped them

"""""flying"""""
"""""fortress"""""

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUG

THE END WHERE THE FUEL TANKS IN THE WING BLOW

IN SLOW MO GODDAM

Holy fucking shit

Germany based on actual performance

Some of the top German aces said the British were the best they just never had enough targets to get the high score

Difference is that in Germany pilots were flying basically non stop since 1939, some since spanish civil war.
And the most sucessful ones were on Eastern Front.

UK and US actually cared about their pilots well being, and they were cycled in and out of active service

America airdropped two fucking nuclear weapons

Luftwaffe obviously.

Me262 and Ar234 shat on everything else they were up against. They were just too late in the war to make a difference.

Wiki "Air Superiority" and look under the WW2 header. Protip: Americans.

you got to add to that: while those guys were certainly skilled the russians were kind of really shit regarding air combat, especially early on.

>dropping 2 A.Bombs on the fucking gooks
"air warfare"

Its not even that, the Nazis completely depleted their pilots, including their experience, through the BoB. RAF pilots could potentially bail over England and share their experience / fly again. Luftwaffe pilots were fucked from the beginning due to the disadvantage of flying so close to their combat radius, and lost all their pilots due to bailing over enemy territory.

It destroyed their effectiveness.

I'm aware of that but still all those exclusively nazi flags going down for about 150 names is still a sight to behold.

/thread

Germany.

Most aces and giving birth to the ace of all aces.

Not to mention germans pioniert aircombat since ww1.

Either USA or UK.

First the brits then the yanks.

German > US > UK > Japan > Finland > Soviet > Italy

Germans and brits were the most skilled pilots.

But brits used radial compressors in their planes which was pretty dumb.

Probably this tb.h

Depends what the criteria is. If its kills alone - germans. Keep in mind though shooting down russians was a turkey shoot. They had almost no training whatsoever. So you have german aces on the eastern front with hundreds of kills which skews the stats.

Kek, shot down soviet planes shouldn't count. Erich Hartmann, the most succesfull ace in history asked by a british pilot how he menaged to reach 352 air victories:

>Well you can't believe it, but the Sturmovik, which was their main ground-attack aircraft, flew like B-17s in formation and didn't attempt to make any evasive manoeuvres. And all they had was one peashooter in the back of each plane. Also, some of the pilots were women. Their peashooter was no threat unless they had a very lucky hit on you. I didn't open fire til the aircraft filled my whole windscreen. If I did this, I would get one every time.

You're including production though. The US had some very good aircraft, but the sheer number of planes and overall war strategy played a major role.

On a purely technical level German aircraft were much more advanced with their jet engines.

wish we were talking about ww1, the red baron wouldve wiped the floor with anyone if he didnt get cocky

All the buthurt

Mhhhhhhhhh other nations cant in to flying.

Get rekt.

>turkey shoot

THAT

NADSIS WERE BEATING ON NOOBS, PRACTICALLY CAMPING THEIR SPAWN, THOSE KILLS ARE NOT A REFLECTION OF SKILL

>ITT people buying into the whole imbecilic "Knights of the Sky" bullshit that actually ruined the Axis air arms rather than make them more effective at air warfare.

Why can't Sup Forums into strategic thinking?

Yeah Brits relied on 120 grade high octane fuel to get performance in their small engined Spitfires, which meant they'd catch on fire after 2 hours.

Whereas the Luftwaffe's Bf 109's used larger engines with lower grade, more accessible fuel, and they didn't catch on fire spontaneously. They also were faster.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Philippine_Sea

>The aerial theatre of the battle was nicknamed the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot by American aviators for the severely disproportional loss ratio inflicted upon Japanese aircraft by American pilots and anti-aircraft gunners.

...

Damn. Thats impressive.

Japanese are poor pilots because they can't see out their eyes

Messy went for speed, Spitty went for turning circle. The latter ended up winning, but for an objective design award I'd go for the messy any day.

In pure dogfights I would say Britain but US very closely behind

Look at this fucking marvel of engineering, only a German could muster.

This beast was mass-produced, and used fucking lawnmower fuel equivalent in low-grade. So it was damn cheap to fuel, it got up to 640km/hr. It also had an onboard gyroscope that would realign it upright if it was rolled over by a British pilot "tipping" the wings of it with his wing.

This. Kamikaze pilots are a myth, they never meant to crash, suicide planes were just a myth created by merciful Americans to save future nips from the embarrassment of being subhuman MONGS.

considering what planes our soldiers were given,i think our pilots rank amongst the best

They have the advantage when flying towards the sun though.

If the Germans finished the Ho-229 and developed nukes they could have hit New York.

I can't even name a single Russian plane (apart from the one in that post which I just learned of) so that alone says something.

You people are idiots that bought into popular "history" nonsense and propaganda. Start reading actual engineering and history books. The tank and fighter claims were proven bullshit, and started to be slashed by half even by Nazi propaganda arm.
Experten system doomed them in the long run. Me-262 was a disaster, Bf-109 was obsolete past F model. DB-60x was shit compared to -1710 and Merlins.
Americans got it right, except their idiotic bombers will get through bomber mafia that went on to fabricate the myth of Mustang D as only good and long ranged fighter. Yak-3 low altitude champion, P-38 middle, P-47 high. I could go into detail on each and every of these points, and more.

This so much. I don't like how often forgotten the Yak series was, however. Very nifty design.

Unfortunately it was literally worthless and did nothing to stop the Luftwaffe from getting BTFO daily by the RAF.

Ho 229 would have also been effective in attacking London directly. It's ability to fly 970km/hr, with it's small radar cross section, due to it's construction, and also flying low above sea level. Would make it undetected by radar, it could bomb, then fuck off.

How was the BTD?

>1945

Tfw we had to rely on Miss Shilling's orifice to keep us in the fight

Thanks Miss Shilling :3

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Shilling

Americans and Brits.
German strategic decisions in air war were often borderline idiotic.
Shooting down badly trained Soviets is not a big accomplishment. Soviet Air Force was an inferior opponent, they simply didn't have enough pilots to train other pilots, which meant they only caught up with Luftwaffe in late '44.

>1/4 the list all in top are germans
>over 1/2 the list from bottom up americans

This. Germans were unbeatable in the sky, so they had to be beaten on the ground.

BF109 was an energy fighter
Spitfire was a dogfighter

it's like apples and oranges

How can ignore production while basing things on technological information, it's like the difference between milled metal vs stamped?

Yak-9
La-7
Pe-2

The Ruskies didn't have as many memorable names, like Mustang, Zero, etc.

> a-am I kawaii, senpai?

>according to Luftwaffe 3,058 aerial victories were scored against RAF fighters in the Battle of Britain
>RAF had 1,963 available fighter aircraft during the campaign
Luftwaffe confirmed for not being able to count for shit.

Those aces shot down nowhere near the numbers listed.

Granted the Luftwaffe tended to keep veteran pilots flying missions far beyond what was expected of Allied pilots who reached 'ace' status (they tended to go and teach trainee pilots), but those numbers are just ridiculous.

Germany easily
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann
there were like 50+ germans with 100+ confirmed kills
The allies won the skies because of numbers and extremely poor decisions on the ground by the Germans.
Also in terms of technical innovation the Nazis built the first fucking Jet fighter.

By production I just meant numbers, so assuming the germans could output as many planes as the allies or something. In other words, if the default answer was going to just be USAF because they could win based simply on numbers the answers would be boring. Obviously in reality it's not irrelevant.

It's the other way around lad. The Germans being beaten in the sky is what allowed them to be beaten on the ground.

Every single panzer they had was invalidated the moment the USAF achieved air superiority.

Consider that German pilots operated under much more risky ROE and there were very few of them which didn't allow for much rotation. The good ones would definitely get massive amounts of kills, but American and British pilots were by and large far better and by and large fly better aircraft.

You monkeys literally peddle the most absurd "mainstream" "Historruh" channel and softback book nonsense.
Simplistic narratives and outright fabrications. Yeah, keep on "red" pilling yourselves, dumbfucks.

What ABSOLUTE MADMAN took this footage?

I read his recount on it, and basically him and the other German aces, were flying every single day. They barely ate, drank hard liqour, everyday afterward, and were taking methamphetamine tablets called Pervitin while flying.

Blah blah blah.


How many e1 e3 and f1 so forth did fly joker?

G2 g10 g14

Fw 190 D versions and a versions did there job still very good.

Burgers and tomys only catched up barly in end and won by zerg rushing.

I rather sit in a 109 or 190 then in of that allied meme figthers.

if you were german you came across this plane in night air to air combat you were prety much dead..
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito

only it was the exact reverse of what you just said. USAAF and the RAF achieved air superiority long before land superiority in WWII. Britain only survived because we were able to inflict such losses on the Luftwaffe that Hitler beleived achieving air superiority in Britain would be impossible/take too long to conclude while the eastern front was hard pressed. Hess knew Britain wouldn't last much longer but got overruled.

Germans as well as Japanese had plenty of airplanes at the end of war. But no one to fly them. Especially to the full effect.

See, you got it THAT wrong.

Germany obviously.

>YOU WILL NEVER BE A SQUADRON OF GERMAN ACES HIGH ON SPEED SHOOTING DOWN ENDLESS DROVES OF NOSKILLZ RUSSIAN 15 YEAR OLDS

W..what. Was just wondering about the BTD Destroyer.

Why live?

Sexy.

>It also had an onboard gyroscope that would realign it upright if it was rolled over by a British pilot "tipping" the wings of it with his wing.
It actually couldn't, it didnt even have ailerons so basicaly once it starts to roll its finnished.

Read what other wrote here. German exaggerated a lot.
Even in ground combat, they exaggerated a lot. Soviets counted a tank lost if it ditched track. Operational loss.
Germans didn't count tank lost even when it lost turret, because it could be rebuilt into an assault gun.
This made counting loses hard, and obviously skewered in German favor.
Germans fought well, but this popular idea that they were some invincible force is pure rubbish.
They had the advantage of great officer corps, and years of good preparation.
Soviets had purges, Brits and French prepared late.
German success therefore came from good preparation and things going their way.
First they faced Poland without real obstructions, then they went west and faced France, without real obstructions, then they faced Soviets and also had no real obstructions until late '43 with Italian front, which was on strategic level just a diversion. So they only really fought on two fronts in '44 and collapsed quickly.
German propaganda and post-war recycling of it is taken for granted here. It doesn't reflect what really happened.

You can't say they were by and large far better when the entire luftwaffe was so fucking small though.
The entire point of this was not considering terms of production, and failing to produce more pilots and planes is exactly what got the Nazis btfo.
Also if you look through the list of German aces many of them got high kill counts against RAF/USAAF as well as the Russians.
One thing the allies tended to do was send their aces home to become instructors for future pilots, which prevented them from getting high kill counts or becoming truly great pilots, but also probably made their entire forces base skill level higher.

FYI as far as USSR air goes they were generally shit but I was floored to read about these gals

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches

>have to bomb German lines at night, silently, to avoid getting shot down in your shitty trainer
>so you shut your engine off and glide to release yr bomb
>then you climb OUT ON TO THE FRONT OF YOUR PLANE TO MANUALLY RESTART YOUR ENGINE
>be Russian and don't give a fuck
holyshit.jpg

...

10 me262s
vs
10 Mk9 Spits
vs
10 P47
vs
10 Yak 3
vs
10 Ki84

Thing is, Allied aces would probably have massive kill count if they were deployed as German pilots were.
It was an idiotic system, it's a great example of how to waste resources you have.

I don't think that's true. The Red Baron was able to fly how he wanted. He ran the air battles, and while his fellow Germans mixed it up with the Brits, he would circle above and swoop in to pick off vulnerable targets, then climb away.

I think his brother was a better pilot. Nearly as many kills (72 vs. 80), and he got his kills actually dogfighting. Plus he survived the war.

spits for sure

based mountain serb

There was also a lot of propaganda involved on all sides.

There were situations where russians reported more tank kills then germans deployed during the battle, and after the battle the same division report was made on, was still 80% combat capable.

There is also the defender - attacker distmorphism.
When you defend even if your tank gets tracked, you might need to blow if up or it gets into enemy hands.

If you're attacking you can just come later and repair it

In fact most thousands of german tanks and assault guns were lost this way, they got tracked, their engine or transmission failed or they just got no fuel, so when germans were falling back, they needed to be destroyed by their own forces.

Depends on pilots. Real life is not a video game.

Mc 202 is so sexy

More webms of amerishits plummeting tk their deserved fate

DELETE THIS
T. Gaijin

True.

How do they count the aerial victories?

Germany, Britain, Finland.

Someone confirms you shot it down, later they used gun-cameras.

Ebin, used to play that game. Simulator air battles only, tanks are boring

Yeah why does Gaijin (War Thunder) never post any German pilots in Ace of the Month.

OP, that footage is from a Hollywood movie. /k/ had a thread about fake WW2 films the other day.

Very little air-to-air combat occurred. it was all faked to get the people at home to accept rationing.

I first became aware of this at a meeting with Adam Lanza and Omar Mateen, just a week ago.

Seriously though, why do the tin-foil brigaders of Sup Forums believe anything?

Because they're slavs and are still butthurt.

It used to be superb untill they started to listen to the average mob about battle rating.

Thank god I never invested a penny into it or I would be really salty

HURR I AM PLEN

sadly true