Is abortion murder?
People regard the little guy inside as non-human because he physically does not resemble a human yet, but still has some kind of life-force inside his little mind that pushes all cells to reproduce,right?
I think that there has to be more than just physical appearance.I don't know.
What do you think?
She made her choice when she got pregnant.
Especially when she got raped, mate
Shit, that really complicates everything.
Fuck I cant fathom the choice in that situation.
its fine as long as the infant is younger than 936 weeks
Maybe she wouldn't get raped if she had voted for the party that would allow her to have a gun to defend herself. She made her choice now she has to live with it.
G-God wills it.
Certainly, if you're raped, and get pregnant, you didn't choose to get pregnant. But you didn't choose to get raped either. The pregnancy is part of the crime against you. It doesn't mean you get to kill a human being who had nothing to do with the crime. I didn't choose to be robbed, so I'm allowed to rob my neighbor's house--it doesn't make sense.
so we should allow a raped woman to suffer even more mentally because of your fucked up religious views?
and what if the doctors know the fetus will be stillborn and will most likely kill the mother on childbirth?
You are naming the extreme situations like that one with stillborn or the rape.
But what about if she just was fucking around and having sex purely for pleasure (and for being a slut I guess),which is statistically happening more than rapes and stillborns?
>kill a pregnant woman, it's a double homicide
>get an abortion, 'just a bundle of cells g-guise'
???
exceptions will always exist thats why we cannot allow it to be prohibited
the example i made was an actual case with a woman in Ireland, she died because abortions were made illegal with no exceptions
>Is abortion murder?
No.
>People regard the little guy inside as non-human because he physically does not resemble a human yet
No. People don't regard him as a person, because he is just the lizard brain. He hasn't developed into a civilized, cultural, opinionated, empathetic and functional personality.
You kill the man-animal, to save the person who is carrying him from whatever-the-fuck-the-reason-was.
Thats Vatican for you.
don't start with that shit
orthodox would be no different if they had their way and you know it
What if you kill the seed of a tree? Did you kill the tree?
What if you stop making shitty analogies and analyze the issue itself?
irrelevant
we are discussing the value of human lives
But they are different.
Back in the old days when they could seize the power ,they chose not to while their "brothers-in-christ" burned scientist alive across Europe?
Don't give me that bullshit senpai.
"Fuck your wife, even if you don't plan on cumming inside her. Its good for the family."
t. Saint John Chrysostom 1600 years ago
Just leaving this here.
Come to me With that argument when 98.3% of abortions in my country are not done purely for convenience.
It's murder even in the case of rape.
There's a potential argument when it could save the mother's life, but I would expect a good woman to lay down her life for her child, personally.
Her body her choice, fuck that it's my kid too, she shouldn't have full control over whether to get an abortion
How about:
her actions, her responsibility
we're talking abortions, not scientist burning
enjoy paying allimony and never seeing your kid
"Murder" is something you do to a person. The fetus isn't a person.
You don't murder a fly, you don't murder a fish, and you don't murder whatever you call that early stage of human.
You need a PERSON to murder, and there is no person inside the woman who wants to pay a few grand to flush her vagina into a bucket so she doesn't lose her boyfriend who is off getting shot in the middle east for a year now.
You may want to replace "murder" with "kill", because you do indeed end a life. Then we can talk about killing some thing that lives inside you and you don't want, without the extra ethical baggage of assuming that thing to be a person with rights and desires and such.
>expect a good woman to lay down her life for her child
thats fucked up
even if child is stillborn?
then why didn't you tell her that you wanted kids before having sex with her, maybe she was not for kids at that point?
>Is abortion murder?
Until sentience, I would argue that that is a definite NOPE. There's no reason to give fetus more decision-making power than a sperm cell until it has at least a nervous system.
You're right. It's her responsibility to get an abortion if she wants one.
>body autonomy
Stoppes reading
Well then according to that logic, you can abort a fetus 1 minute before it's born since the mother can withdraw her consent to being pregnant.
I'm not entirely against abortion but the arguments piss me off. Men have literally zero reproductive rights and unborn fetuses no rights at all. Both are at the whims of the mother. That doesn't feel right.
>she was raped
>the cheap drugs she too didnt work
>the condom she provided broke and the guy didn't notice
>the guy did notice but came anyway
>she was drunk/drugged/is crazy/otherwise not accountable for her actions
And even forgetting all of these, maybe she made a mistake, sees this now, and wants to correct that mistake.
As a guy you can correct the mistake by saying lol cya bitch i'm out, but as a woman you kind of have to get gutted and take the thing out.
Fine with abortion if the woman was actually raped. None of that "my rapist was my husband" shit, actual against her will rape.
Not a fan if it's stupid teen deleting a mistake or if she wanted kids and got an abortion because it "felt like the right thing to do."
But that something will not be a fly that goes around and eats shit, that something can and will become sentient person
So by killing the potential , you are killing the person somehow
Ok, but the point he's making is if you kill a preggo, you get charged with two murders. It's inconsistent to say it's not murder when she chooses to kill it, but it is murder if someone else chooses to kill it.
>He hasn't developed into a civilized, cultural, opinionated, empathetic and functional personality.
drowning your kids in a bathtub because you're sick of them is fine too, then?
reminds me of how its "her body, her choice" until they realise muslims and other shitskins are aborting girls. You body, your choice, as long as its for the right reasons (like not feeling like having a baby).
exceptions will always exist
and you cannot prohibit it without prohibiting it on all grounds
it is a necessary evil
abortions aren't allowed at that point since it could potentially kill the mother
millions of eggs are lost with each menstruation
millions of sperm die when you jack off
all potential, non murder
Only in Brazil, where most people don't develop a personalty their whole lives.
Abortion outside of cases of fatal fetal abnormality is a very dark thought and the height of human hubris. You're denying a potential person the opportunity to be alive because you can't be bothered to be responsible. It's all the problems of western society encapsulated into one issue
>Ok, but the point he's making is if you kill a preggo, you get charged with two murders.
I am not familiar if thats the case, and if it is I'd oppose it. Its not reasonable.
At the very least for consistency make it 6+ months preg or something, so it relates to the allowed abortion range.
but you cannot ban abortions exept for the cases of fetal abnormality
it is an unfortunate circumstance
So by killing one person you kill the 999999999 people that would've followed from him?
He had so much potential. In fact, I threw away thousands of potential humans in the toilet as I masturbated.
Don't be silly.
Because we live in a gynocentric society
the idea that women are oppressed is hilariously wrong. Women need to be brought down a peg. Ernest Bax, an early 20th century socialist, recognised they have privilege over men. It's only gotten worse since.
Female purge when?
spoken like a true beta
>millions of eggs are lost with each menstruation
>millions of sperm die when you jack off
>all potential, non murder
except we are talking about the sperm that "made it" to the finnish line
Meat is murder.
Why do you have unprotected sex if you can't afford having a kid? I accept abortion only for medical reasons and if woman got raped but any other reason is just woman being a woman.
But you can. Make it so abortions can only be done by medical staff if they find no other way to save the child and the woman requests it.
Except we are talking about the fetus that "made it" to the finish line.
>millions of eggs
Full retard.
that it is a law that was made on prue emotional grounds
the fetus inside carries sentimental value to people and is why that law was voted in
the finish line is 9 months later while exiting the womb
forgery/deceit, and you're back to the start
>Is abortion murder?
Yes
>Should it be legal?
Yes
>Should you talk people into having one?
Yes
It is killing a human out of convenience for the most part, but I am fine with that.
I despise most children, most parents, and society would be a whole hell of a lot better if far less people were born.
At least I am not a hypocrite in regards to this, I got a vasectomy when I turned 20 and still view it as one of the best decisions I have made almost 15 years later.
meant over time
stupid mistake nevertheless
>Is abortion murder?
Yes, you are taking a life away.
Stupid people will justify their bullshit propaganda anyway they can, but the fact is that legalizijng abortion is the same as the legalization of infanticide.
It is no different to kill an embryo, a newborn baby, a toddler, a small child, a teenager, an adult or an old man. It is all murder.
>kills shitskins and leftists
>not the greatest thing ever conceived
nth post best post
/thread
nice strawman mate
>implying right-wing women are not raped
>implying there are no rape in countries with liberal gun law
Buy it wasn't her choice that she got pregnant. If it wasn't her choice, then she doesn't have to be responsible for it.
You can't punish women for being raped with giving her responsibilities and taking away 15+ years of her life.
it's murder.
i think there are decent pro-choice and pro-life arguments, but this stance:
>well, abortion is murder, unless the mother was raped, then it's okay
is pants on head retarded and very popular for some reason.
the kid shouldn't lose its right to life because the father was mean.
>forgery/deceit, and you're back to the start
are you seriously implying that enough women would fake their way to a hospital bed and somehow have it so that when the doctor checks the status of the fetus it appears unhealthy that it would become a serious issue?
Obviously no. A stillborn child is dead. You can't abort a dead child. At that point you'd be removing a corpse, as grisly that is to say.
you sliced this thread in half with that edge
>vasectomy
why so early?
You quoted the wrong post.
>Fuck I cant fathom the choice in that situation.
Sending the kid to adoption is a choice that results in the mother not having to deal with the kid and the innocent kid does not get killed for a crime his father commited.
Problem is that women don't want to wait 9 months and ravage their pretty little bodies for some niglet whose father did raped them.
>but as a woman you kind of have to
>have to
Or, you know, you don't.
It's murder because it wasn't her choice :^)
I think, woman shouldn't be the only one deciding about abortion.
>man doesn't want kid
>woman want money, keeps the kid
>it's her body, her choice
If woman still keeps the kid, man should have legal right to opt-out of parenthood and alimony
...
woops
A fetus is a person. He or she is every bit as much a person as you and me. It's hard to argue that a fetus isn't at least as much a person as a newborn, and no one but Jewish philosophers say it should be okay to kill babies.
Yes something like this. And the father should be able to keep the kid even if the woman didn't want it.
It literally doesn't fucking matter whether abortion is ethical or not because it's the only way to not get drowned in niggers. As long as it's in the first trimester, when it's still a barely differentiated blob of goop, you're a pussy if you give a shit
>But what if women gonna get killed in labour because fetus was dangerous to her life?
>heh heh it's not our problem mate
>But what if we kill mindless, not-developed bunch of cells?
>NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS WE WON'T LET YOU YOU BITCH! OUR CONCEPT OF FUTURE HUMAN IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR WELL DEVELOPED LIFE THAT USED A LOT OF RESOURCES AND WISDOM
>because it's the only way to not get drowned in niggers
but only white women do it
giving birth to her rapists child will cause severe mental trauma, and could also cause physical traume if complications arise during childbirth
it will still happen, it will eventually become prevalent
and then they will demand they make it legal on all grounds
>premeditated killing of a human being
It's literally murder by its very definition. However it''s up to debate whether it's justifiable - at the first stages of pregnancy that "human being" doesn't really have most of the qualities most people use to define what it is to be human. I'm pro-abortion, but to be fair, I don't consider euthanasia of a brain dead patient to be morally wrong either.
Its not perhaps the actual act of aborting but the thinking behind it. Its prevalent in other areas too. This attitude that is consumerist and completely sick to the core. That fetuses can just be discarded like they were a smelly tampon. It is so completely detached from a healthy view on life that its hard to imagine us ever getting back on track before this machine we live in has exhausted everything and everyone on this planet and implodes.
>Is abortion murder?
Does it matter if it is?
Murder in certain circumstances is already accepted. Whether that be for self defense, protection of property, war, capitol punishment, etc.
Even if we assume abortion is murder, that doesn't make it instantaneously wrong. Just like the previous examples mentioned, murder is forgivable with in the proper context.
If someone is mentally and fiscally capable of raising a child, they should. If they can't, then the burden is going to be shared on the rest of society, whether that be taxes going to run a foster home, police having to patrol and arrest people who didn't have a proper upbringing, and the medical system that will have to deal with after effects of violent crime and drug use.
Abortion is overall good.
>It's hard to argue that a fetus isn't at least as much a person as a newborn
Its very easy to argue this.
A fetus isn't even a "he or she" initially, as you claimed. That comes later.
It is literally a human being built from the ground up, and there is a point where this human becomes complete enough as to be considered a person by law.
That point is not the early stages of pregnancy.
In america the overwhelming majority of abortions are performed on black women
The important question is not whether a woman
has the right to do with her body what she wants,
of course she does and I think most people here
would agree with that.
The real question is whether the fetus is a separate
individual from the mother. The answer to this
question is philosophical and religious, what is
a person? I will assume for the sake of argument
that a fetus does not have an immortal, immaterial
soul so we can focus purely on a philosophical
argument for why at least some abortion is wrong.
When we talk about a "person" what we mean
is a unique human personality. That's what
we care about. Further, we know that the root
of human personality is our brains. We don't
care about the body in a coma that has nothing
but a brain stem and a breathing machine keeping
it alive. We say that the body is alive but the
"person" is gone in such a case.
So the REAL question should be, when does
brain development reach the point that a unique
human personality exists.
I'm not an expert on fetal development and
this question should be answered by our
best understanding of the science. But
I do think there is reason to think that at some
point during pregnancy, abortion becomes morally wrong based on the fact that at some
point during pregnancy there emerges a unique
neurology in the brain, which means that
there is an individual person being killed.
its hard to make the case that it isnt unless you consider an unborn child inhuman, which we pretty much do anyway
nigga are you serious
nigger women are the most frequent visitors to the coat hanger
hell here in serbia #1 is the gypsies
I don't know how we could live without abortions
I believe abortion is not always murder. Sometimes I view it as euthanasia (in case of a severely deformed fetus) or a death penalty (in case of rape or putting mother's life/health in danger). Any other case is murder.
>in one instance a person dies despite everything being done to save her. in the other "bunch of cells" is killed intentionally.
Until there is central nervous activity in the fetus, which is later in the pregnancy, it is not an individual with rights. Abortions should not be allowed after there is central nervous activity.
Women know they're pregnant for a while before the fetus develops a central nervous system. If women choose to get an abortion after that, unless there is a serous complication in their trimester where carrying it to term and giving birth would put the mother's life at grave risk, then they should be charged with murder
>self defense, protection of property, war, capitol punishment
none of these are murder
>Its not perhaps the actual act of aborting but the thinking behind it.
This I totally get and find disgusting. Abortion should be treated like chemo, not a haircut. But that's a problem with education and culture, not the availability of abortion itself
thats why in most countries abortions are performed in the first three months of development
I knew even then I didn't want to have children but I also knew I was going to be having sex pretty regularly.
Nothing is better than having a lying whore tell you 'We are pregnant, user!' with a happy look on her face and then crushing her by telling her it can't possibly be yours because of the vasectomy and dropping her like hot iron right after.
Downside is that is a trip to the clinic to make sure I don't have some kind of cock rot from her cheating ass.
Also, that post contained no edge at all. Try living in an area where people rarely ever control their spawn and take them out with them wherever they go. It makes you grow to hate seeing those little bastards show up anywhere because it just serves to ruin the mood. The fucked lifestyle of being a parent also kills the mentality of people too.
For example, I went on a cruise a few months ago. It was a family friendly cruise (try finding one that isn't) but there was only about five children on the boat because it was in the middle of the week during the fall.
The booze was flowing freely and every moment should have been a party, but everyone waited to 'have fun' until midnight and then only for about two hours.
We could have had a non-stop week long party on that fucking tub, but the people on board were still locked in mommy and daddy timezones and wouldn't liven up until their non-present kids would have normally been asleep if they had been with them.
Fuck 'em, man. Even when they aren't present they wreck shit.
>giving birth to her rapists child will cause severe mental trauma
Murdering an inoccent child won't?
I'm really torn about what I think about abortion but notice these pro choice images always use a picture of a pregnant female with a healthy baby. They don't show anything to do with aborted fetuses because of how disturbing it actually is to see.
>it will still happen, it will eventually become prevalent
>and then they will demand they make it legal on all grounds
in what third world shithole could that ever become prevalent mate? i don't know about your country but here we take doctors very seriously and such medical fraud would result in shaming rather than encouragement
Whether it's rape or an accident, the fetus inside is still an innocent person isn't it? At least be consistent if you're against fetus murder. Personally I don't give a fuck about fetuses since they're potential humans rather than actual humans such as the mother. It's important to be pragmatic in these cases since an unwanted child has a negative impact on the parents and will lead to a shitty upbringing with the eventual result of the child becoming a nigger. People who argue that sluts should be "taught a lesson" by forcing them to have a child don't realize they're punishing the child as well.
I think no woman or scientist ever will reach the answer to that philosophical question wether life force itself (that actually make all this to happen and to cells to know how to organise and why) is or is not actual conscience.
I am pro-choice, a women should choose if a man can cum inside her.
That's the only valid argument for abortion, an actual, undeniable rape situation. As in around 1% of abortions including false rape claims.
Abortion could be allowed for serious rape cases (weighting the life of the child with the evidence of the rape).
Some of those would be considerable arguments, if the mother didn't consent to an act that leads to pregnancy in the first place.
>despite everything being done to save her
You mean like removing bunch of cells without concioussness and functional organs that is a cause of her illness?
What would you describe murder as?
the woman is killed because not everything is done to save her
the best of 2 evils
okay, your country is a holy democracy of the moraly righteous
then women will just travel to "third world shitholes" to get their abortions
what about when women gonna die because of fetus?
Or when fetus is disfunctional monster that will die right after leaving her mother body?
I think it is akin to murder, I also am for keeping it legal. It kills more shitskins in my country than any other, can't argue with that......
That being said if a woman has the right to end a pregnancy at her discretion then the man involved should also be able to 'decline' any connection to the pregnancy if he so chooses as well.
killing someone who was actually born is a start
yes caesarean sections still count