The EU is democratic

>The EU is democratic
Yes/No?

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No. No you mongoloid. It's explicitly anti-democratic to stop Europe's evil, evil population from doing something like electing another Hitler.

>hold referendum
>don't respect its results
What do you think?

>EU
>democratic

>democratically undemocratic

> falling for the democracy jew

Came here to post this

...

Yes. Every member gets a vote, therefore it's democratic.

Very funny isn't it?

Nee.

I'm still laughing my ass off over here...
wew

It's a dictatorship run by a small group of people so it looks democratic... But it's not

NO. the people you vote for in EU elections cannot make laws. Only approve/disprove them.
Kind of like our Eerste Kamer.

>disprove
not what I meant to say btu you know hat I mean

All its power stems from the erosion of authority from democratic, sovereign nation states without consent, periodically over a long time so nobody really noticed when it was all gone

No, its not democratic. You don't vote for the individual, you vote for the party when it comes to the EU, parties which can simply reappoint to the slot without by-elections.

No power of impeachment until Lisbon in 2007.

Yeah, it's the same in countries. Government proposes law, parliament approves.

Nope, it hates democracy.

>british referendum happens
>threatens and bullies uk, says it will turn a blind eye to migrants going through the channel tunnel, blocking trade deals etc
>this is somehow democratic

Yes.

Salty nationalists just pretend it's unelected bureaucracy is somehow more unelected than the unelected bureaucracies in their own countries, and conveniently forget that they elect MEP's democratically and that the EU has even introduced direct democratic systems like the European Citizens Initiative;

>ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/welcome

Not that it matters, I don't think even the most optimistic Europhile would give it more than 50/50 odds of surviving the next two decades unless there's radical reform, particularly in immigration, which the current leadership seems unwilling to consider.

I doubt the UK is the last nation to break away.

No

It is democratic. The majority of the people are in the Continent.

>the channel tunnel
why don't you guys just blow it up already

>Ur not democratic if ur a meany

Jesus fucking Christ.

States are never nice to their rivals, the UK just set itself up as a direct threat to the EU's stability, I can't comprehend the childish world view that would be required to actually expect them to treat us fairly.

But the people have no say when it comes to the people who propose the law. How is that even remotely democratic.

It doesn't really matter how "democratic" the process is (or looks to be), the simple fact is that the EU as a whole fails to properly represent the people from each particular country.
For instance France and Netherlands voted against the constitution but they still ended up being subjected to it. Perhaps you can say it's democratic because the other twenty something countries said "ok", but it doesn't make it less unfair.
EU it's just too damn big and its members are too damn different.

F

Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, Afghanistan, Malaysia, the UK -- these all are real democracies

The EU is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship obviously.

>mfw that's what /polfront/ believes

The people who propose the law are the European Commission. The head of which, is elected by the European Parliament. The Commissioners are appointed by the Head guy (Junker) in cooperation with national governments. The Immigration Commissioner is a Greek former minister. Every country gets something.

And, by a complete and unrelated coincidence, government is formed by a majority in parliament.

So I literally didn't vote for a single member of the supreme legislative body of the European Union. K, seems legit.

I'd say any government representing hundreds of millions is going to let down a lot of them.

Doesn't change the fact it is democratic. An unpopular democracy is still a democracy.

There's plenty of reasons to dislike the EU, 'hurr non-democratic' is just an objectively false but vote-winning talking point used to sway people who haven't actually got a clue about the organisation. You heard it constantly prior to Brexit, swiftly followed by Googling of 'What is EU?'.

For example; Scotland is horribly represented by Westminster, it's a far-left country that hasn't seen a non-centrist left-wing government in decades, it doesn't mean the UK has suddenly become something other than a democratic nation.

Commissioners can't be appointed without being voted by the EU parliament. If they fail even the parliament committee hearing, they are rejected.

no

It's technically the executive party. Did you vote for George Osbourne?

It's not important.

Yes.

They make you believe what they decide is good because all they want for you is good.

Nope, but a fellow citizen did. I can though however have him removed by office if the people will it, I cannot with a single EU commissioner.

You voted for your member of the EU parliament. Every country has a number of MEPs.

The EU parliament then votes the Commission, including all the Commissioners. The EU parl also has the last word on the budget.

So all the EU officials that have any real power have been elected either directly or by the parliament.

The only one who is not elected is the head of the Council, but that guy doesn't really have much power.

No.

We elect MEPs but they have no power.
They can't make laws and can't disapprove laws, only approve them.

They asked for a trade union, and got a political farse instead.

The supreme legislative body of the UK is the PM and his Cabinet, and you don't get a vote on any of them, the PM is chosen by his party and the Cabinet by him/the party.

The European Commission is elected by the European Parliament, who you can elect MEPs into.

There's zero functional difference.

parliamentarism =/= democracy

It only means that the UK is not as democratic as it should and the EU is just an even bigger clusterfuck.
You're an idiot if you think that the system of representative democracy itself is democratic at all, because it's basically an aristocracy that 100% of the time goes wrong and becomes an oligarchy.

The European parliament can't propose laws. The UK House of Commons can.

Not true. The parliament can amend laws. The Commission or the Council can't ignore the parliament's amendments.

Do you believe that only MPs should become Ministers? That's not the case in many Western countries, dunno about UK. Are they all elected?

Still, it was David Cameron who chose him for this position.

So my MEP's get to vote on Hitler, Mussolini or Franco. Great.

The European Commission are the closest thing to an illuminati we have, they must have been passed off when we btfo their plans

He can only be in this position if he is an Elected Member or parliament and he can be removed at any point by the people.

I think you mean
Yes/Yes

The Council of Europe?

But all the laws of the EU go through the parliament where they are amended. The parliament can pretty much change the law as it wants to.

Also, the parliament has the last vote on two things:
- electing the Commission and all the commissioners
- the EU budget

The Commission can't do shit if the Parliament votes the budget in a way which they don't like.

>They asked for a trade union, and got a political farse instead.

this meme must die

youtube.com/watch?v=JelNnIlgCHc

vernoncoleman.com/howthebritishmedia.htm

harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

>Parliament has the power to amend or block proposals from the Commission for new EU legislation or changes to existing legislation.
>Through votes in Parliament or Parliamentary Committees, MEPs can also ask the Commission to bring forward proposals for new legislation.

>in 4 cherrypicked ways it is an improvement on the UK parliamentary system
>this means its fundamentally democratic

come on, m8

Democracy is the illusion of power. Basically a dictator you vote for. Pic related

the president of the EU is not chosen by the people.

So, NO!

This is all based on democratic centralism, which was Lenin's ideology for the Soviets btw.

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Well just ask yourself, is it democratic that one person just decided to go through with a trade agreement without asking other members?

Finish your GCSE in history and come back kid.

The European Parliament has control over the Legislative Commission, whilst they can't propose laws directly, the Commission has to listen to them in the same way MEP's have the listen to their constituants.

If you don't think that's democratic, then the USA, UK and pretty much every western democracy isn't democratic by your standards either.

We're allies, that's why.

no

The Prime Minister of the UK isn't chosen by the people either.

Pretty sure we're still classified as a democracy.

This entire thread is retards unable to differenciate between liberal democracy and absolute direct democracies.

Almost all power is in the hands of unelected bureaucrats. MEPs don't rule the EU, they can't do jackshit but decide what lightbulbs and televisions you can use.

>NO!

No, the Council of the EUropean Union, which is that institution which prepares the EU summits. The guy who is the president of this CEU has no power whatsoever.

Then there is the European Council, which has a collective presidency. Every EU member gets to hold its presidency for a few months. But it's basically a council of ministers. So, it's usually your prime minister who leads this institution. Since he was elected by a parliament, he is appointed by a democratically elected assembly.

The fact you don't recognise the quote would suggest it's you who missed a few classes there.

It's funny that many of those would call you a leftist shill if you advocated for absolute democracy.

>Yeah, it's the same in countries. Government proposes law, parliament approves.
No it fucking isn't. Name me a country where the people that MAKE THE LAWS are NOT voted in.

So are the USA and Britain. Doesn't stop them fucking with us or acting against our interests if it benefits them.

The president of the EU, you mean the president of the Council of the EU? That guy really doesn't do anything, he has no power. He just organises the EU summits, he has no portfolio whatsoever.

ISNT IT FUNNY

The EU is democratic because you get to vote for the people that vote for the guys who select the leaders.
You all just trying to divide the people with your hate, in case you didn't know, that's exactly what the populists want.

I'm talking about the EU Commission. They are the ones with the real power.

The fact you have to quote the most cliché remark in regards to the failures of democracy shows you haven't even started this ride into hell.

>The EU is democratic

then, where are the referendums? Where the popular sovereignty?

>power playing when its in the global interest to calmly negotiate

Both sides are guilty
But the EU is literally risking the collapse of the German banking system whereas the UK is only risking its dead industry.

EU bureaucrats can overrule laws passed in France, Germany, the UK, or elsewhere in the EU when they have an underlying statute. That is not undemocratic.

If they cannot overrule a particular law they don't like because they lack an underlying statute, they threaten financial penalties. In that way, they're a lot like the bureaucrats in Washington DC. That is undemocratic.

The EU is a needless level of bureaucracy that should be destroyed

The EU commission is entirely appointed by the EU parliament by vote. Both its president and its commissioners are voted by the European parliament. There were a few cases when some commissioners were rejected by the parliament, I think. So, it's not all that rosy.

The far-right and the far-left both love the idea of direct democracy because it allows a focused minority or a slim majority to remove or over-rule the rights of the rest of society. It's mob rule with a coat of legitimacy.

But then I'm a disgusting centrist fence-sitter so I'm used to be alternately called a fascist and a leftie cuck.

No referendums for you because Hitler.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663863/Now-Far-Right-demands-Dexit-poll-Deutschland-referendums-banned-HITLER-abused-polls-claimed-Jews-supported-Dachau.html

Completely missed the point it's not that difficult.

Imagine if your House of Lords were the only one that could make laws but the House of commons can approve them. THAT is what the E.U. is.

The Netherlands. Finance minister, who may or may not be elected, decides to bail-out Greece, he drafts a law that allows him to do so, and sends it to Parliament for approval. Doesn't help my case, does it?

Why cant they be elected by the people? Is there an actual reason?

>The EU commission is entirely appointed by the EU parliament by vote

Wrong. It's elected by a majority of the 28 member states governments.

No. The officials the people elect have no say over what laws are passed.

>The EU parliament then votes the Commission,

It isn't, learn how the EU works gypsi

The EU Commission president is recommended by the EU council, the parliament can only say yes or no to that candidate, if it says no the Council has to purpose a new one.
The commissioners are purposed by the different member states, the Commission president decides which one gets which position also has a quasi saying who he wants a commissioner (though not on paper but practice looks different).
The EU parliament does a hearing on this Commission, which the president has set up. But the only thing it can do is decline the whole commission and the only thing that leads to is a reshuffle of the composition of the Commission. aka the vote as often as the commission is passed through.

All bankers must die a horrible death. Capitalism has become a monster with no natural enemy.

Its a dictatorship

The people you vote for cannot legislate and the people who can are hand picked for the position and you cannot disregard what they pass

holy shit, its real

HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHA HAHAHAHAHA HEH HEH OH BOY HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

even appointed politicians are already one layer of disconnection. EU just accumulates them until there is no longer any responsibility

Technically it is but it's so ridden with multilayer voting, appointments and votes of confidence that it might as well not be.

The executive body really isn't elected at all because there's no election held. They're appointed and then given a vote of confidence by the parliament.

What is your point?

>who may or may not be elected,

Well, is he?

In a democracy the elected officials are the ones who propose laws.

In an oligarchy the laws are proposed by an unelected elite. Sometimes with a show parliament like in the EU.

>The EU parliament then votes the Commission

lol you are a fucking idiot