Why did the Valar expect mankind to be able to deal with "its own problems" and deny them use of the Eagles when all of the main enemies in LotR were Maiar, and not mortal in nature?
>Sauron >Saruman >Balrog >arguably Shelob all vs >Gandalf, who could only solo the Balrog and possibly Shelob
Jayden Smith
Elrond and Galadriel could easily have killed Shelob, and possibly the Balrog and Saruman
Hunter Myers
But they didn't really do anything
Liam Scott
Because the Numenorians fucked up. And something to do with men being the real chosen peoples of Eru, those who would inherit the earth in the end, those who would end the perils caused by the elves. Those gifted with death.
The Valar knew they fucked up, but they also knew they couldn't just fix the problem they caused, as it would lead to more problems. They essentially just had to stop, which they did and when the elves left literally all sign of their existence left with them.
Luke Torres
In case you haven't figured it out yet the Valar were massive fuck ups who couldn't do anything right and Iluvatar basically just wanted to watch Tolkien's message was "Angels are shit and God is a cuck"
Matthew Collins
eagle rates were skyrocketing at the time, they couldn't afford to pay for the extra overhead
Matthew Cooper
It was the Elves who forged the 19 rings. It was Númenóreans who spared Sauron. It was Isildur who didn't destroy the Ring. It was the Easterlings and Southrons who provided much of Sauron's armies.
Basically if all the Elves and Men had joined up and worked together from the start Sauron would have never been a problem to start with. It was only their own weaknesses that caused him to become a threat.
Luke Young
Yeah, man and you're pitting mortals against the will of a literal angel and blaming the men for falling Elves are another story altogether, but elves were ruined by the Valar to begin with when they brought them to Valinor If the Valar had never intervened and left the elves to mill about themselves in their ancestral home they'd been fine It was the Valar's actions that led to shit like the Silmarils being even created
Connor Thompson
Oh and also it was the Valar who spared Melkor the first time they caught him and even let him out of his imprisonment after a bit for good behavior
Camden Sanders
They wanted them to develop efficient tax policies.
Evan Cooper
The last time the Valar intervened they sunk an entire continent. Sauron keeps Shelob as a pet. What relevance does she have?
John Thomas
>Yeah, man and you're pitting mortals against the will of a literal angel and blaming the men for falling Since plenty of Men did resist Sauron yes it is their fault for failing. The only real exception to that is blaming Isildur for not destroying the Ring could be considered unfair.
>If the Valar had never intervened and left the elves to mill about themselves in their ancestral home they'd been fine No, if the Elves stick around Middle-earth they'll fade into formless spirits. Bringing them to Valinor IS saving them.
Charles Russell
How shitty is the middle earth god that it would allow mass amounts of people to be tortured into orcs and mass murdered in wars?
What a shitty god.
Logan Diaz
>>/r/atheism
Jeremiah Green
Maybe the elves were meant to fade into formless spirits Besides not all elves ever went to Valinor, so what's up with that then
Zachary Cooper
The worst elves.
Jose Russell
The world isn't static, user.
Jacob Evans
No he doesn't
Shelob's been there long before him and they literally couldn't do anything about her so there she remains She's the spawn of basically the Tolkien equivalent of an Outer God who literally ate all the light in the world
Isaiah Allen
Literally every LotR debate that matters was settled in the council of Elrond, everything else is speculation and unforeseen circumstances.
Dylan Nelson
>No he doesn't Yes he does. He sends her elves and men as food. She was literally even referred to as a cat, which was a throwback to an earlier version of the Beren and Luthien story did where Sauron was the lord of cats.
Parker Baker
>every LotR debate that matters was settled in the council of Elrond
But they didn't even start discussing tax policies, the inefficiency of which being the reason that Sauron was able to appeal to so many races in the first place.
Jonathan Watson
The Valar are helping out, they're just doing so subtlety .
Nolan Anderson
Sending it food isn't the same as keeping it as a pet
Charles Bailey
>The valar are better at fucking things up than the literal dark god
Jose Rodriguez
>How otherwise would you have it? Should Manwë and the Valar meet secrecy with subterfuge, treachery with falsehood, lies with more lies? If Melkor would usurp their rights, should they deny his? Can hate overcome hate?... >Thus the merciless will ever count on mercy, and the liars make use of truth; for if mercy and truth are withheld from the cruel and the lying, they have ceased to be honoured... >If Manwë had broken this promise for his own purposes, even though still intending “good”, he would have taken a step upon the paths of Melkor. That is a perilous step. In that hour and act he would have ceased to be the vice-gerent of the One, becoming but a king who takes advantage over a rival whom he has conquered by force. Would we then have the sorrows that indeed befell; or would we have the Elder King lose his honour, and so pass, maybe, to a world rent between two proud lords striving for the throne? Of this we may be sure, we children of small strength: any one of the Valar might have taken the paths of Melkor and become like him: one was enough.