>Horse riding warriors
>Don't use bows
What gives? Before gunpowder, horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth, there was literally no way to counter them.
On the steppe of Rohan, the Rohirrim would've been literally immortal had they used bows.
They do use bows though
>massive charge with spears
>B-But the movies show one soldier with a bow
>horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth
Oh boy. Wait till you hear about armored knights
Did you stop watching right after that? There's literally groups of them drawing their bows to take down the oliphants.
>fantasy settings aren't realistic
Holy Christ dude you might be onto something.
There's literally tons of horse archers shown in the movie, are you daft?
Mounted knights got btfo by Mongol horse archers repeatedly.
And then a thousand years of improved armor happened
How did that work out for them?
>work out
heh
Mongols were only effective on open steppe. They got blown the fuck out every time the terrain didn't suit them.
Armor was already on its way out around 400 years after the Mongols invaded Europe thanks to a little thing called guns.
Not so great because horse archers are useless as fuck
>there was literally no way to counter them.
It's called a shield
>Before gunpowder
>a little thing called guns
Horse archers get fucked when you put a huge stone wall in front of them
Have you heard of a mystical and magical land called Hungary?
Doesnt work when you take the bait and run after the "fleeing" mongols
>Have you heard of a mystical and magical land called Hungary?
literally where country
>Hungary
Irrelevant
>mystical and magical
>literally naming your country after not having enough to eat
Topkek
The huns/mongols middle earth equivalent is orcs or humans that served Sauron or morgoth (the Valar, not the movie only orc general) and we saw bow cavalry used by orc warg riders. while the rohirrim coulda been great, they just didn't have a smart guy like you to tell em.
Fun fact: The country is actually called Hungry since they were invaded so often and besieged so much that the population was pretty much always starving
>Hungary couldn't singlehandedly-destroy America in a week
TOP KEK BURGERSHIT!!!
Oh believe you me, us Hungarians are ITCHING for a war with America. We will fucking ANNIHILATE your dirty country. There wouldn't be a square meter of American soil that has running water, electricity, or petrol that isn't on fire, once our airforce and navy is done bombarding your defenseless country. Then, our army boys would swoop in, raping your women, and killing EVERY burgershit shit they see. When Hungary's done with you, we will have committed acts of genocide. Of course no one is gonna do shit about it
>amerishart education
Yeah, Hungary got their shit kicked in even with the help of the Holy Roman Empire until the stone fortifications were made. Which also only makes OP's question that much more valid though since the "good guys" in LOTR had the more advanced western Euro inspired tech so they wouldn't have run into the same problems the Mongols did with their shoddy tech that couldn't get past the stone fortifications.
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Fuck off Khergit shill. Swadia 4 lyfe.
Huge stone walls get fucked if you put horse archers in front of them. Have you heard of a country called China?
Yeah, they went around the walls.
magyar cigány
So you're agreeing with him
>there was literally no way to counter horse archers
lol? what are guns?
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Horse Archers are a complete myth. All the mobility in the world means shit when 2,000 Imperial Legion Solders just walk up to your city and pillage it.
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>guns
>before gunpowder
do explain
Just use plasma or lasers lol
>city
>nomads
>imperial legions in Eurasian Steppes
?
>84+12
>implying it's a threat for my 120 swadian knights and 40 merc cavalry
boi.
War and history of warfare is not Age of Empires you fucking faggot. Just because you played some war games on your mom's PC doesn't make you a military historian.
Can't pillage what you can't catch. The Mongols were deadly because they were extremely fast. Each rider has a couple of horses so the army can move at full gallop all the way. If your horse is tired with your ass then chage horse. Plus they mostly ride on mares so the riders get sustenance from horse milk (or they cut the horse a bit and drink a bowl of its blood in emergencies, this doesn't bother the horse)
They cover so much ground that everyone thinks their numbers are limitless, which is not. Indeed, there weren't that many Mongols, not like the "endless horde" we're led to believe. They just cover so much ground so fast and each rider having multiple horses, they seem limitless.
The horse archers thing is just icing on the cake.
>there was literally no way to counter them
There was: Archers. A man on a horse is a very big and target .
>Before gunpowder, horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth, there was literally no way to counter them.
You're from /his/ right? You're meming right? Right??
no he's from /civ5/ generals
Good thing their cities are 3000 miles away
rekt
big and easy*
Also fast and mobile.
>Mounted knights got btfo by Mongol horse archers repeatedly
No, they didn't. Russian "knights" are extremely different compared to their Western European counter-parts.
Can't go around the walls if the walls enclose a space.
Horse archers usually defeat an army who hasn't faced them before or is overconfident in a land that is mostly stretching plains.
>Also fast and mobile
yeah they were also in big fucking groups, war archery wasn't about hitting individual targets with personal accuracy as much as it is putting a shit tonne of arrows way over there where the enemy is
And an archer on foot can use a more powerful bow
>Sup Forums talking /his/
Jesus Christ
yeah cause its so much different from /his/ talking /his/
but at /his/, history is our specialty
It's not really but I was hoping that particular cancer strain would not spread here.
saruman had gunpowder retard he made a bomb
>no way to counter HA
Lurk more, faggot.
Lockdown Prowler counters HA, and everything else in the game.
>An inscription thought to be from 1226 was found on a stone stele in Nerchinsk, Siberia. It may have said: "While Chinggis Khan was holding an assembly of Mongolian dignitaries, after his conquest of Sartaul (East Turkestan), [Chinggis's nephew] Esungge shot a target at 335 alds (536m)."[4]
>In the historical novel "Khökh Sudar" Injinashi, the Mongolian philosopher, historian and writer, imagines the competition amongst all Mongolian men in about 1194-1195: five archers each hit the target three times from a distance of 500 bows (1 bow = at least 1 metre).
guinnessworldrecords.com
Apparently they could shoot twice as far and just as accurate as today's world record with a modern bow and arrow? Nah, stories about Mongol bows are obvious bullshit tales they made up.
implying your swadian knights are shit to my nord huscarls nigga BEST FOOTMEN
Are you an idiot, when do you think the Mongols invaded?
maximum power level is archived by realizing that while mongols used horse archers to harass their enemies during pursuits, retreats and deployment they actually defeated theyr enemies with spears and shock cavalry
>cavalry using crossbows is never depicted
That's the real shame.
>there was literally no way to counter them.
fuck off
Didn't cavalry archers use tiny ass bows that were only accurate to like 50 feet? Most horse archery videos on Youtube have guys shooting tiny ass bows at very close targets while they ride past. That sounds very counterable.
Rhodians clearly have the best footmen, you northern savages
the mounted knights were only BTFO because of tradition and tactics that they refused to adapt to counter the Mongol archers.
I just looked up the "World Archery conditions" rules and it says:
22.2.1.1. The peak draw weight shall not exceed 60lbs.
That's a joke weight for a warbow. The English war bows could be up to 180lbs for instance triple that. It isn't hard to believe at all they could make a shot at that distance considering the Mongols made the best warbows in history using techniques mostly lost to history and fired by warriors who were the culmination of an entire society's effort.
CHINESE SIEGE ENGINEERS
Not really. One garrison commander decided to open the gates and let the Mongols in. At the time, there was an internal Rebellion in China and the Commander was on the losing side. My memory might be wrong though.
why is high fantasy so fucking obsessed with plate armor? hardly anybody in history actually wore plate armor.
Who /dan carlin/ here
The mongols under Genghis and Ogedei khan were literally nigh on invincible, and rekd pretty much everyone
The only reason Europe as a whole wasn't conquered by the Mongols was because after destroying the armies of eastern europe, the khan died from illness so they all had to go back to Mongolia for the kurultai
the Timurids frequently employed cannon, it is not as if Mongols were incapable of sieging cities either they ran through China and fucked over some of the largest walled cities on the planrt at that time.
>Muh Horse Archers
A decent Phalanx or Testudo would slap your shit
Are you fucking artistic
You don't seem to understand warfare user. If one army is morem obile than another, it doesn't have to commit to a field battle. While your boys are in phalanxes or testudos the horse archers are 8 miles away sacking Rome or Athens after turning your supply caravan into pin cushions
>The only reason Europe as a whole wasn't conquered by the Mongols was because after destroying the armies of eastern europe, the khan died from illness so they all had to go back to Mongolia for the kurultai
This tarded meme will never die
So explain the non meme version then you fat fuck
>proper castles everywhere
>poor terrain
>not enough grazing land
there now fuck off
actually mogols didnt win every fight. the point of them being invincible was that they ALWAYS came back with even greater numbers.
also the first decisive and final victory against mogol horde was delivered by mamluks who fielded exactly a heavy armored rideres, preety much middle eastern knights. after that fight mongols for the first time ever didnt come back for a rematch.
supply lines stretched thin, they needed huge areas of grasslands for their horses and were dependent on the weather
the geography of europe wasn't in their favour
infighting
and contrary to popular belief they also actually lost men in battle and were wearing thin
>Before gunpowder, horse archers were the most powerful warriors on Earth, there was literally no way to counter them.
Lol wat?
Kill the horse, the archer is absolutely fucked.
mongols sieged fuckload of cities thanks to chinese siege engineers.
also hungary was invaded simultaneously with poland and mongols completely blown both of them apart. the only reason they werent conquered was because great khan had died and according to tradition they ALL had to go back to Qaraqorum for funerals and choosing of new khan.
Russian knights were just as capable as western, both in gear and skill. Mounted knights are a shitty counter to Mongol cavalry for two reasons. 1) The Mongols had their own heavy cavalry 2) Heavy cavalry was used to crush infantry (see hammer & anvil), not chase after anyone. The horses, destriers, that were used by heavy cavalry were not particularly fast nor nimble, but they were sturdy and strong as fuck to deal with all the armor the knight wore, and possibly the horse itself as well.
The bows were small but incredibly strong. These days weaker bows are used in competitions, but Mongol composite bows were not a joke, and could just fine rival any longbow. In fact, they were actually superior in both craftmanship and effectiveness.
You are talking about a completely different thing. Sports archery is hardly comparable to historical archery. The maximum range of historical longbows is under 400m. Additionally, different arrows are used for different distances. Heavier for closer range warfare, and flight arrows for personal showing off and competitions.
See the previous paragraph. Turks have been known to achieve distances over 800m in their competitions, it is in no way implausible. Special bows and special arrows that were not used in combat, yes, but still. Modern distance shooting competitors can shoot for over 1000m, but that is really high tech stuff.
t. Historical reenactor, I own and have made several bows myself
Sure... but the enemies they were fighting weren't humans
the mongs have siege engines. they also wallop plague ridden corpses into cities kickstarting the yurop black plague pandemic.
he's right, the biggest empire on the planet was due to the invention of the bow
horse archers were god tier, because you never would "kill the horse" because they'd ride away
>because you never would "kill the horse" because they'd ride away
You're stupid, you know that?
>horse archers were god tier, because you never would "kill the horse" because they'd ride away
WHAT
en.wikipedia.org
fucking education is so bad here
DELET THIS
Not him but i mean if you have a fucking horde of archers who can keep their distance as well as move at great speeds (relative to unmounted soldiers) and outmanouver you while just twanging arrows into your tight formations slowly whittling you down, how the fuck are you going to kill their horses in the first place?
I mean you too can fire arrows, but you would need extremely well trained bowmen to hit riding targets, and horses aren't as clumped up as normal units so volley tactics would be far less effective, and even then those riders whose horses died would probably just get bailed out by their mates before your infantry can get in there to kill them.
Mongols were mostly outnumbered though also the mamelukes were literally mostly turkics which also fought as horse archers.
Reminder that england was won the most wars in history out of any country or empire
They brought down one of the elephants with them.
Arabs and Russians wrecked Mongol horse archers.
Euros lost against mongols because hey focused entirely on heavy cavalry. That's why the got slaughtered.
What's "England"? You talking about the Caliphate of New Pakistan?
Still mad about 1812 I see
>Arabs
The Mongols wiped out a superpower of the time, and fucked Baghdad so bad the region still hasn"t recovered.
>Russians
The Mongols invaded Russia in winter and steamrolled the divided Russian states.
>Arabs and Russians wrecked Mongol horse archers
no arabs and russian wrecked mongol horse archer AFTER mongol horse archer ASSRAPED them hundred times over.
basically there came a point when people started using their heads and come with intelligent solutions. before that moment mogols might as well been demons from hell.