Voting conservative = financially cucking yourslef

> most of Sup Forums is working class
> for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
> Sup Forums votes for the business owners to have less taxes on their stolen money


explain!

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative
onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Marx, Karl, 1818-1883
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor

That's marxist bullshit kill yourself redditor frogposter

SAGE

The vast majority of Sup Forums is on the opposite ends of society: either NEET or high income.

>labor = profit
By that logic, if I spent the entire day digging holes in the ground, I'd be the richest man in the universe, right?

I run a bricklaying outfit and everyone gets paid a livable wage, even the laborers.

Leftists would rather tax and regulate the shit out of me forcing me to downsize my crew to the point where it would be more profitable and less hassle to just work by myself.

>stolen money
Yeah. Talk to me when you're the guy who owns the truck, the tools, the forklift, negotiates contracts with local developers and builders, spends evenings out quoting jobs to make sure we stay busy all year. You expect to just show up to a private business and basically become a partner? You must be the stupidest nigga alive.

> owns the truck, the tools, the forklift, negotiates contracts with local developers and builders, spends evenings out quoting jobs to make sure we stay busy all year

under a socialist government the peple would own all the tools and the workers would negotiate contracts and find jobs

that way the workers would get paid the fair vale of their labor

having a boss is a outdated and useless idea

>implying a laborer without degrees knows how to manage industrial assets and HR

>implying a multitude of laborers doing something they know nothing about would be efficient

>implying scale economies do not exist

>implying hierarchy is optional in corporate environment

You badly need a reality check

It's not the labour which is valuable, but the products of that labour.

One hour negotiating a contract in a comfortable setting is more valuable than 12 hours of digging holes in the sun.

Labour theory of value is a nice thought, but frankly, I don't care if someone spends a week making a pair of shoes; if they're shit, they're shit.

you'd vote for Lucifer himself if you got 20 more dollars on your paycheck from Denny's

did your bk manager ride your ass today or something

The problem is, the left no longer care about the working class, all they care about is faggots, trannies and black people.

>m-muh economic self-interests

occupy memeorcrats please go

I'd rather be middle class in a white country than upper class in Africa

...

is this the hottest new maymay? i've seen it posted 10 times today.

How does it have anything to do with what i said

Conservatives are mice electing cats because the cats convince them they're mice, just like them.

>most of Sup Forums is working class
Actually, like every other board, most of Sup Forums are in education.

This is what socialists will never understand.

>dude like why doesn't everyone just be in charge

gr8 b8 mr. Marx

then explain why workers cooperatives have proven to be successful in america? makes you think huh?

Damn

Boy, I don't know about the US but cooperatives, which are typical in Italy since forever, are inefficient, lobbying, sneaky asses.

All they want is MUH PROTECTION and MUH SUBSIDY, as they are not able to withstand competiton.

I think they didn't actually work in the US. Gimme sources.

>explain!

conservitards are very stupid, and very very gullible.

>Vote for the left
>Flood country with immigrants
>Wages go down
>Working class neighborhoods get culturally enriched while the middle and upper classes are unaffected

What if I don't want to work for the glorious proletariat? Why is work a good thing? What happens to people who don't want to participate in socialism?

>paid less than the value of your labor

But the trade off is that I have a constant steady purchaser of my labor.

Also, kill your self Marxist cuck

wtf I hate finances now.

Was just fapping to some /gif/ stuff.
Why does autocorrect correct fapping ?
Get with it, Ivanka, Black gay nigger dudes run the interwebs.

why would i vote for more of my money being taken from me so jamal can sling dope and collect welfare?

>the peple would own all the tools

Do you want to hand over $10k or whatever of your own savings to buy a stake in a business when you're hired on.

Because you do realize that's basically what you're saying, right?

You commies either have no fucking idea what you think you want really means. Or you don't really want to own the means of production and still want other people to put up all the capital and take all the risks, but then give you the profits even though you risked nothing and have no skin in the game.

Oh please. The working class shouldn't even have the vote, they have proven themselves to be inferior by staying in poverty. I was born into poverty and now I have an income over £60,000 a year throgh hard work, determination and skill.

I am sick of hearing you dreggs of society constantly whinging, we already have to subsidise your wages, healthcare, schooling etc.. with our taxes and you still just want more and more handouts.

Your kind doesn't deserve the vote or any civil rights whatsoever. We are the ones responsible for the greatness of our countries, always have been and always will be. The only reason it is shit now is because of """"""workers rights"""""""""" and """""""equal representation""""""".

>OH BOY, I CAN'T WAIT TO BE MORE TAXED.
Literally (you)

Republican vs Democrat in the US is a meme.
Neither address the most important issue.

>then explain why workers cooperatives have proven to be successful in america?
>workers coops
>successful

I own 1/2 of a gift shop/coffee shop and my own flooring store that I work with my wife and my wife's son. If you think taxing me above 50% is going to do anything other than convince me to lay off the gift shop workers and do that job myself you're pretty naive. Fuck doing installations myself if I'm only getting half

>Neither address the most important issue.
the demographics?

>making some arguments agaisnt Republicans
>BUH-BUH-BUT MUH DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!111!!

Never change

What happens to people who don't want to work for a capitalist boss? What happens to people who don't want to participate in capitalism?

Well, here is the answer you want

>They get sent to Gulags xD

WEED

Explain how working my ass off and then giving away a large portion to people who don't work is actually the non-cuck way.

Give up, we the people still have the vote. Even if The Donald is a con man, at least electing him will say fuck you to existing con men of our political elite.

See

>Do you want to hand over $10k or whatever of your own saving
>implying most workers can put down 10k for bad investments

>Because you do realize that's basically what you're saying, right?

No it's not.

labor theory of value?

how does this ancient meme keep cropping up

>>workers coops
>I own 1/2 of a gift shop/coffee shop

HAHAHAHAHA, americans

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

working class needs

How else do you propose workers "own the means of production" if they don't purchase stocks/a stake in the business?

If those "evil" capitalists did not exist as would be the case in your socialist utopia, who else but the workers would provide the capital to allow the business to function?

>Explain how working my ass off and then giving away a large portion to people who don't work is actually

that is exactly capitalism you mong

ITT temporarily embarrassed millionaires

Lol that didn't rebute what he said

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

It does not mean that the retard respnsible to clean the machines will suddenly be the one negotiating the selling of company stock

>What happens to people who don't want to work for a capitalist boss? What happens to people who don't want to participate in capitalism?

They get welfare and NEETbux generally. Whereas in socialism you're told to work or you starve (Lenin's words).

So in your situation you'd have a worker join a 'group' and immediately be given 10k worth of tools/materials?

Some explanation is needed

> most of Sup Forums is working class
Is there any reason at all why you assume this?

so I still get paid the same but I'm not being taxed as much either? ok, great, thanks conservatism

Transferring wealth to non-whites is far less cucked.

wait, are you trolling? You can't be that dumb.

Workers owning the means of production is a big meme

When it's going well, it's socialism (Venezuela pre-2014)

When it's going badly, it's state capitalism (Venezuela right now)

You'll never win, they just weasel out of it

This, it's all about who is the bigger cuck, and right now, OP is

>How else do you propose workers "own the means of production" if they don't purchase stocks/a stake in the business?
I don't know nor i care. But that is not what he was saying. I would guess direct control.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Socialism is not a utopia.

>b-b-b-but my ANECDOTE say I am r-right!

Man, there are tens of thousands of cooperatives in Italy. They drag public finances and don't pay their fair share of taxes. I know what I'm talking about.

I doubt ppl with high income would have time to waste on an fucking Chinese cartoon board.

>Implying Neet's are working class

>They get welfare and NEETbux generally.
Then possibly the same would happen in a socialist society.

>Lenin's words
So?

>I don't know what the word conservative means

>people stop coming to Sup Forums when xDDDD

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

This is somewhat close to how it would work

put NEETs in working class and its true

Face it ppl have potential to climb won't have time to waste here, mostly.

I was assuming you meant a coop where the workers own the means of production. Yes the terminology wasn't very good but please explain how you propose workers would go about owning the means of production

>What is welfare
>What is capitalist income

>What is rent seeking?

>> for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
objectively false. Kill yourself

Shouldnt the excess money go to the people who actually built the machines then not the factory workers ?

Socialism is the result of survivorship bias. People only see the successful businesses and don't think of the many failed business.

onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Marx, Karl, 1818-1883

>Not being the owner of your tools, your workshop, your material and your funding.

T O P C U C K

Why are the portuguese so dumb?

>Then possibly the same would happen in a socialist society.

I doubt it. Everyone is given a job and anyone slacking usually got exiled, shot or starved

>So?

He created the only lasting socialist state and his writings have been a cornerstone of Marxism for a century now.

voting liberal means flooding the country with sand niggers

Productive people work 100% of the time, of course.

Monetary issues and corruption in the financial system.

So you want to make it so that only people who own a share of the coop can work and those who cannot afford to buy in can't work? There's nothing wrong with hiring people who want to work

Marx doesn't explain it either which is why you're struggling to answer

>Everyone is given a job and anyone slacking usually got exiled, shot or starved
>USSR was a perfect example of socialism and everything that USSR did can be expected in the future
>everything i need to know about socialism i learned it with USSR by Fox News

If you vote dem this year, you're voting for the biggest crony capitalist thus far. Things change user.

>for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor

Still working on outdated 19th century economics I see. Value is subjective.

The thing is that Sup Forums is old. Most of us are shitposing for more than 10 years on here.
10 years is a long time.

Its actually true, but in the sense that your labor is nothing without the means of production, research and development, and marketing.

This is why minimum wage should be abolished, it gives no incentive for the market to offer better wages (or adapt to lower wages = prices match them) as low skill labor is always in supply.

If anything is outdated its socialist concepts that served people during the industrial era but stifle innovation and progress now.

It was the only successful and lasting socialist state. The libertarian attempts like the Paris Commune and Catalonia ended in bloodshed, because they were unable to survive. The reality is authoritarian Soviet style socialism is the only way you'll ever maintain a socialist society, with brute force.

No its surplus labor. There's a certain point where you've given the owner more in labor than he has given you in compensation.

>So you want to make it so that only people who own a share of the coop can work and those who cannot afford to buy in can't work?
I'm a social democrat, so a capitalist still. I'm not a socialist intelectual

>Marx doesn't explain it either which is why you're struggling to answer

Have you read him?

How do you measure that?

This is my spending money for the month (and I probably won't spend it and end up making more). Fuck off.

>The reality is authoritarian Soviet style socialism is the only way you'll ever maintain a socialist society, with brute force.
So you claim. But let's see in the future

Oh I thought you were saying you were socialist. I read something by him back in college when my younger brother was going through a Marxist phase

labour cost isnt a set value
a man with a shovel does less labour than a man with a digger

If there is a socialist society where people are genuinely free and can be left alone without some overbearing authority relocating them and employing them, that sounds good to me. I'm just sceptical, seems too utopian.

>Misusing the picture of kek the almighty

Do you WANT to be crucified?

>wife's son
Cuck'd. Raising another man's spawn is the literal definition of bluepill.

> for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor

Stop. The value of anything is determined by how much someone is willing to pay for it.

sage

>Voting progressive/liberal/socialist/democrat/cancer

>You need to pay more taxes for the unemployed niggers
>More welfare to prop lazy nigger leeches up
>More regulations
>More immigration=less jobs and less money
>More inflation and higher cost of living

If you work and vote democrat you might as well blow your brains out (oh wait guns are also banned)

In this day and age, most western countries will not have a socialist party rise to power.

Most 1st world countries have these options:

Rich are taxed very slightly more, high immigration and diversity.

Rich are taxed slightly less, tighter grip on immigration.

Most of the economics won't bother the every man. There are no more extremes. It's just boring centrism until we die now.

>The market can't be distorted

We will see terrible things in our lives.

I can assure you of that.

>tfw about 21k in assets
>23k in liabilities (student loan + car)

>16k
>Successful