Why did Portugal and Spain become so shithole despite being rich and powerful many years ago?
Why did Portugal and Spain become so shithole despite being rich and powerful many years ago?
Parker Bailey
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
imf.org
publications.credit-suisse.com
en.wikipedia.org
forbes.com
fortune.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
Ethan Williams
They were always shitholes, they just happend to be in best geographical position to colonize.
Lincoln Scott
we did nothing special, just sailed away, and fucked local girls
Chase Ward
inflation
Kevin Diaz
>so shithole
what the fuck are those bourgeois standards? they are still pretty nice countries to lives on.
you gooks need to chill out, especially when one of the worse shitholes of this planet lives above your northern border.
Michael Kelly
it was going fine until we got into a personal union with Spain and got dragged into all their problems. add to that constant harassment by Dutch and French colonialists and the empire started to decline.
we were still a secondary power until 1974 when the socialist traitors dismantled what remained of the empire but all good things come to an end
Jace Peterson
portugal was overextended, had a small population, only advantage was being ahead in sailing technology, got attacked when it was in union with spain
spain had a lot of infighting, inflation and is full of spaniards
Jayden Rogers
>despite being rich
where did you get this idea, cunt eyed retard? since the very beginning of the spanish empire it always lacked money
Nathan Russell
>Spain is guilty of all our problems, since 500 years ago
The good old classy portuguese. What a fucking joke.
Jace Ross
We are on par with SK on almost everything, wtf are you talking about?
Samuel Martinez
lusitan cunt allied with the anglo
Owen Parker
Filipe dindu nuffin, the armadas were a good idea
Xavier Foster
the armadas were a terrible idea, this is why both the spanish and the english ones failed miserably
Levi Russell
Yep we are fucking shitholes. Please chinks and germancucks spread the word in your country and don't ever come here, any of your "god tier" countries.
Angel Miller
Big talk for a country that was hanging out with Cuba just a couple of decades ago, and needed the U.S. to make it not a shithole.
Jeremiah Phillips
Spain had gold and silver
Portugal had spices and slaves
And both were alone and had a monopoly
All world was shithole 1500-1800, but they less shithole
Good posts
Hello jap
Kevin Hill
Spain - Infighting, all the gold fucked up their economy, got fucked by storms, got fucked by Napoleon, got fucked by a plague, more infighting, commies
Portugal - Small population, since we had Brazil's resources we didn't industrialize, our last dinasty was absolutely horrible, the 1st Republic was horrible as well, Salazar finally develops the country but dies, Marcelo, his successor, gets fucked by the commies and we've been falling ever since
Jaxon Green
>Spain had gold and silver
that money was used in the wars as soon as it arrived to Seville, retard
Benjamin Parker
Napoleon
Liam Sanders
>shithole
>says a Worst K*r**n
LMAO
Blake Nelson
You live in a plastic country,of plastic culture,plastic people,plastic cuisine,plastic architecture,plastic eletronics,plastic history so on.
Christopher Evans
Spain would unironically be a superpower but they fucked up big. Imagine if they still owned their colonies. Portugal was just a minor trading nation like the dutch.
Gavin Jones
They were victims of their own success. In Spain's particular case all the colonial gold and silver was largely spent on mantaining a vast array of interests in Europe, from a Mediterranean fleet to protect against the Turks to armies to protect territories in the Netherlands and northern Italy. That gold was mostly used as means for finance, particularly via banking families based on Switzerland and Austria, where most of the new world's gold and silver remains to this day.
Also this wealth allowed Spain to avoid modernizing much the same as the rest of Europe, retaining a pseudo-feudal system at a time in which it had become obsolete, and allowing a string of ineffective rulers to mismanage the nation without visible consequences, that is until the Napoleonic wars when it fell to Spain's largely impoverished peasants to actually defend their country.
There was a curse of sorts with American gold, Spain had it's most vibrant peak in the late 16th and early 17th centuries, while this wealth was still relatively new and much of the vitality that had led to the Empire's rise still remained, yet this was also the point at which it suffered its most long lasting defeats, such as the Spanish Armada or the loss of European posessions.
It was too much of a good thing and Iberia was forced to struggle with the loss of its colonies just as other European powers rose to dominate Europe.
Kayden Sanchez
Nah, the armada had all the elements to succeed, Spain was ruined by its pride and commanders chosen on the basis of titles and lineage rather than experience and competence. Not that Mexico didn't make the exact same mistake with Santa Anna.
Sometimes history comes down to the actions of a few individuals, the Anglo's later global dominance did come down to a few battles which on paper he should have lost.
Jack Sanchez
Portugal was a major power and did more than just trading
Landon Nelson
(((Comunists)))
Easton Morales
instead of building industries, they spend all the gold they got from us in churches.
they also were cucked by the eternal *nglo.
Jaxson Perry
arguably we were in the worst, non-landlocked region to colonize. It just so happened we were so desperate we actualy risked the lives of many in a huge gamble (we got lucky, I guess).
>northern europe could use the artic current to reach canada fast
>egypt/mesopotamia had access to the indian ocean
>morroco and western african coast kingdoms had the trade winds right into the caribean (that's also why hurricanes always do that path before whreaking the caribean isles).
we literaly did it the hard way:
>found passage through 3 capes to reach the indian ocean
>accidentaly discover the atlantic currents while returning from expeditions to indian ocean, and brazil by proxy
>accidentaly discover the caribean because of bad math (fuck that italian retard, btw)
>find out there are similar currents in the opposite direction (this was an advantage, since they led to azores archipelago)
>much later find out there is a northern current too (the one vikings used, but was forgoten since)
spain's gold, (silver was sent to china to trade for gold) was used by their barely functional kings in stupid wars with no purpose but to weaken itself.
portugal lost most of its trade in spices after being dragged into spanish wars against england and the cowardly dutch, the fact that there was no portuguese armada to protect trade resulted in inevitable takeover.
furthermore, we gave most of our holdings to england after we saw we could not hold the monopoly.
Blake Taylor
>Why did Portugal and Spain become so shithole despite being rich and powerful many years ago?
The levels of delusion
Dylan Morris
non white immigration since 1974
Liam Scott
>constant harassment by French colonialists
literally never happened since we weren't around for long
Liam Taylor
remove baguette remove baguette hue hue hue hue
Sebastian Johnson
this just comes from having no muslims and the blacks all living in a small region, nothing to be proud of
>>accidentaly discover the atlantic currents while returning from expeditions to indian ocean, and brazil by proxy
>accidentaly
Cameron Allen
Better than having France as an ally
See
Leo Miller
The only reason why Spain spent all the gold in stupid european wars is because the EVIL AUSTRIAN royal family took over, and decided to spend all our money in european adventures that spain was not interested in.
Lincoln Diaz
More than half of the invincible armada was portuguese,with a portuguese admiral
Luis Anderson
Rothschild's influence
Colton Parker
the curse of moctezuma hit spain pretty hard.
Jace King
ah yes spread your seed far and wide and multiply like rabbits while making not friends, good jobs people
Landon Foster
You wish you could live like the Portuguese or Spaniards, Yong-Hae.
Oh wait, this is Sup Forums. Yes, both are shitholes full of nonwhite Arabs where cannibalism is the norm. Now go back to Starcraft.
Noah Hill
How is live like there?
Charles Perry
>GDP
Korea > Spain
>GDP per capita
Korea > Spain
>PPP per capita
Korea > Spain
imf.org
>national wealth
Korea > Spain
>Mean wealth per adult
Korea > Spain
>Median wealth per adult
Korea > Spain
publications.credit-suisse.com
>Minimum Wages
Korea > Spain
en.wikipedia.org
>Forbes Global Companies 2000
Korea 72 > Spain 28
forbes.com
>Fortune Global Companies 500
Korea 17 > Spain 7
>Credit Rating ( Standard & Poor's / Fitch Ratings / Moody's)
Korea AA, AA-, Aa2 > Spain BBB+, BBB+, Baa2
en.wikipedia.org
>Unemployment rate
Spain > Korea
>Debt
Spain > Korea
en.wikipedia.org
Even our's muhHDI is better than Spain
Logan Jackson
Portugal was pretty much only decently rich for a century or so, its actually funny to know about our history and just how much of it was actually driven by a need to pay debts.
Portugal's first two centuries were pretty much constant war: first for independence, afterwards reconquista with a few bouts with Castille inbetween. Obviously this meant a largely depopulated kindgom and a TON of debt. We couldn't expand eastwards so we headed for northern morocco and try to take control of the trade routes coming from south of the sahara, namely conquering Ceuta, Azila and Tangiers.
This endeavour proved to be less worthy than expected, but it jumpstarted our exploration as we figured we could just take control of the trade routes at their origins. And so we set sail.
But then, 150 years later some retard decided he could take on the combined force of the Ottomans and Moroccans, proceeded to die without leaving a direct heir. Then Spain just walked right in, claimed the crown (Filipe was the rightful heir after all) and our former "allies" (England and the Netherlands) took on this opportunity and started taking our strongholds in india and east asia. It didn't help that the retard spaniards decided to sink our armada alongside theirs in the failed invasion of england.
80 years later, after a costly independence war we were again in debt, lost almost all posessions in india and east asia (and the monopoly on trade), lost most of our armada and were just too small to do anything about it.
We lucked out with finding gold in Brasil but that was pretty much it, the only thing we had going for us was the monopoly on spice trade which we were always bound to lose anyways, we just didn't have the manpower to keep powers like GB away.
Later on our country was wrecked during the Peninsular Wars, Brasil got their independence and from then on we were fucked.
Eli Phillips
>Suicides
Korea > Spain
Adam Young
That map is outdated, our unemployment is below 10% nowadays.
Jace Torres
>spain
>shithole
memes aside of Sup Forums, spain is probably one of the top5 cunts to live in, desu.
your country is a shithole compared to us, for exemple
Wyatt Diaz
>Plastic
Korea > Spain
>Autism
Korea > Spain
>Quality of life
Spain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Korea
>Culture
Spain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Korea
>World heritage
Spain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Korea
Easton Sanchez
All the wealth from the colonies went to fund wars and shiny new palaces/churches, nothing was invested in any industry. It didn't help that the Iberian nobility had a low opinion of trade or manufacturing and preferred careers in the military, state bureaucracy, or Church while the English nobility had no particular objection to business pursuits.
Connor Lee
>and shiny new palaces/churches
most churches were funded by the locals and in parts of Spain, like in the north, they were built 300 years before America was discovered. now if you talk about cathedrals it's the same shit because many of them were reformed when the spanish empire was already in decline
Isaiah Bennett
>It didn't help that the Iberian nobility had a low opinion of trade or manufacturing
This is outright false, the main driving force behind iberian explorations was securing the monopoly on the spice trade from india.
The spanish bit more than they could chew and found themselves embroiled in never-ending wars with half europe which eventually bankrupted them.
Wyatt Brooks
Their colonies had a lot of gold but not much else. The Anglos, on the other hand, set up shop in relatively gold-poor regions that could grow some really valuable cash crops like tobacco, cotton, and even wheat (America made a ton of money selling grain to Europe during the Napoleonic Wars when food supplies were disrupted).
Even after independence, Britain still had most favored status when it came to trade with the US, so they could shore up their strength that way.
Carson Flores
This is what you have learned in school kid? you are pathetic.
Jordan Moore
stole all our gold, and 500 years later are in economic crisis, fuck you españistan
Eli Brown
Touched a nerve?
Landon Cooper
The problem with badly spent money was up until the arrival of the Bourbons; it was the Habsburgs that LOVED to burn through that gold.
i keep hearing this "Spain didn't industrialized because of stupidity with money", which is incorrect. The reason Spain got left behind in the 1800s race to industrialization was the fall of the Empire. Madrid -and Castilla- were accountable for those territories -being this the reason why Cataluña and Euskadi were more industrialized back then and Cataluña remains slightly more to this day- while at the same time having to deal with a French invasion, 3 civil wars and a horrible population exodus.
The problem with Spain wasn't lack of economical knowledge, but having an Empire too big for the army to actually control, and don't forget that Argentina during the 1800s beat the UK, meaning that Spain was having to fight real threats in its own land and in the colonies.
Evan Rodriguez
fck life is gooood
Lincoln Wood
>implaying stole gold guarantees you 500 fucking years of prosperity
kek
Cooper Allen
>i keep hearing this "Spain didn't industrialized because of stupidity with money", which is incorrect.
Well, there were the other factors I mentioned how the nobility didn't consider industry a dignified pursuit.
Carter Richardson
It's okay, Mexico, we still love you
Cooper Martinez
>could grow some really valuable cash crops like tobacco, cotton
portugal pioneered those cash-crops (suggar cane too), the dutch managed to get coffee and some spices as well
the english only followed what worked elsewhere, what you say is a myth made by american exceptionalists.
Spanish colonies failled because they were in war with eachother and then got USA'd to death after the premature colony became a full fledged regional power. As for Brazil, it was going more or less well until the nobles sized the power (see poland for what happens when nobles rule).
it's mostly true what he says, we went after ceuta because it was a slave trade node. It didn't work out because they moved inland and made oran the new node (and later tunis, after spain got oran)
portugal was deeply in debt for most of its existance, if it was not for enlightened men like Jonh II "the perfect prince", amongst many others both before and after him, we would be a province of spain, as pathetic as galiza is
Cameron Wood
>didn't consider industry a dignified pursuit.
But that didn't stop Euskadi and Cataluña, being at war for the totality of the 19th century forced Castilla to spend money on warfare and not industry. It wasn't negligence, but Independence in the colonies.
That's not to say you aren't wrong in terms of nobility ideals, but nobility moral can only go so far in the 1800s with France and the UK getting so powerful.
Gabriel Ward
There was a lot more than just gold, there was stuff like sugar, spices and slaves
Isaac Ross
The only true
Angel Young
There is a lot to say on this topic.
In the case of Spain, they mismanaged their colonies, and spent all their money fighting wars for catholicism in Europe they lost.
I think in case of Portugal they were too small and wealk to hold on to their colonies.
Henry Clark
We still held them longer than other european cunts
It was the jealous wh*te bois that screwed Portugal
Camden Lopez
one word
CATHOLICS
corrupted cunts could have reformed when they had the chance, now its embarrassingly too late.
Colton Martinez
>lose colony to movement of non-violence
Wow, what pushovers!
Justin Foster
hello immigrant.
Portugal is white, it seems you are not, so you are not portuguese.
Juan Green
yea achmed some economic conjunctures, look you were "poor" as fuck in the xix century (1840)" that's was because you were catholic back then lmao.
Easton Carter
lel ye pre-electricity must have been such an easy time for us to compete with your prosperous lands..