Referendum of Catalonia for the independence from Spain

Any thoughts?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
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gonna be funny when Spain sends in military

sounds pretty gay desu

I support it

I don't support it.

Even if the military was sent no one can know how the soldiers would react.

Why don't we make every city an independent country?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
:^)

They already have. The Civil Guard has been sent in and arrested a dozen separatist leaders. There's protests in the streets and shit.

I won't read this. I won't change my opinion. You cannot predict how soldiers would react.

>1-O
>Catalonia declares itself independent
>Every company found there gets the fuck out
>EU and NATO doesn't recognize it
>Parts of Catalonia will still be part of Spain
>Its state collapses
>Cataroaches want this
Pretty stupid tbqh

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Don't know if they will get independence, but Rajoy has assured today that there will be referendum

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No, we need a strong and stable Union.

t. George Washington

>mfw Madrid refuses to acknowledge their right of self-determination
>mfw they are legally bound to recognize it
>mfw they are ignoring ius cogens erga omnes and noone cares

Ah yes, spanish democracy.

>>mfw they are legally bound to recognize it
No they're fucking not
Spain has full authority to do whatever the fuck they want inside of Spain

Catalonia would probably join the EU anyways

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It's literally in Art.1 of the UN Charta that Spain has signed.

They wouldn't be allowed to.

No it doesn't

The Purposes of the United Nations are:

To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

this

There's no way the EU nations would recognize Catalonia. It'd piss Spain off beyond reason

lol they would fall apart in a few years they say that they give so much from spain yet theyve borrowed more from spain which is the irony.

>and self-determination of peoples
Hmm

That doesn't mean they have to recognize a vote for independence

BOYCOTT AL CAVA CATALÁN

ESPAÑA ES 1 Y NO 51!!!!

If it did then why is there not a single UN country that is sponsoring the vote?
Even Crimea had a few that sponsored their's

Well, what does it mean in your opinion?
Because I believe it means exactly that.

It's talking about between two nations.
Not a county of a singular nation vs. that nation

DO IT AGAIN HERMAN GORING!

Military against own people is not allowed unless its a state of emergency.
So when military is indeed sent in, they kind of acknowledge their independence

It would only happen if it gets violent. Which might do.

Spain doesn't have national guard or something similar?

That curse isn't going away anytime soon, is it?

They are in a state of emergency. They've sent in 1200 members of the Civil Guard

It's not really a "state of emergency" but it is pretty close to it.

Spain is not a federal state. That's why it's funny. Spain is a devolved unitary state, so the central government has the power to withdraw virtually all political power from its devolved territories. This would not be possible in a federation.

yes. their tune will change very quickly if spain decides to bring out the lead on those morons

about time

It only take a single EU member to veto membership. Spain would be one of many countries to veto.

Read a book dumbass. There is a fuckton of detail and ICJ case law that you're completely and totally ignoring.

The UN itself and ICJ say you're wrong.

This. Finally a Euro that understands the difference between unitary, devolved unitary, and federal governents.

I don't blame Catalans for wanting to leave the utter travesty that is modern Spain.

Yet on the other hand, the people pushing hardest for independence are literal communists who would run Catalonia into the ground using any number of methods.

Anybody who opposes regional self determination is a globalist in denial.

t. Quebec

How butthurt are Spanish cunts about this? If Catalonia went independent how angry would Spen be?

The Spanish economy is currently one of the fastest growing in Europe, and the vast majority of that growth isn't coming from just Catalonia.

Spotted the inbred Quebecer.

When you have africa-tier economy with 1 in 4 people unemployed, any grow is considered a fast grow.
Anyway, Spain will never have a economy like western european countries when everybody together takes a nap on the middle of the day every goddamn day

want

Send the troops Madrid

Spanish fucked up massively. We were smart in the UK and gave scots the vote as soon as independence shit stirrers started gaining momentum, this put the wind out of their sails and kept the union together.

If we didn't give consent resentment and distrust would grow more and more until breaking point like it is now in Catalonia.

When people think they are being repressed it spreads like a plague and resistance will just keep growing.

>we were smart in the UK
>Kept the union together

Ooh wow.

Spain HATES Liberty. I would want to break free of their oppression too. Power to the will of the people.

What happened to you guys? Why did everything fall apart after the Empire? Was Franco the only one holding that place together?

This.

also give islands back.

this. take it out quick

I have no need for US "freedom".

that's retarded

catalonyans already voted last year i think? and it was a no
latest shit they did to try to boost up votes is blame Spain for the terrorist attack of Barcelona. Thats how low they can go for votes.

I support the catalan separatists

Redpill me on Catalonia. Are they absolutely batshit, or do they have a good reason to secede?

arguments for independence
>catalonya culture is different
it has some differences just like any other regions in spain do
>catalonya was an independent kingdom
it belonged to the crown of Aragon (includes modern Aragon, Balencia and Balear Islands)
>Spain is an oppressor state
catalonyans are allowed their own budgets, their own language, and im pretty sure businesses are forced to put their business name in catalan

i think those are their main arguments and why they're horseshit

I'm actually confused about what I want.
On the first hand its obvious that the short term consequences will be awfull for both, Spain and Catalonia, specially when we consider that we are barely starting to come out of the 2008 crash right now and it could kick us down for even a longer time. I'm actually quite afraid of this.
On the second hand... well, an unilateral declaration of independence will push companies hosted in catalonia to seek another base. Most will push for madrid, and even some will decide to get out, not just of Catalonia but maybe even Spain and go for Amsterdam or whatever they fancy the most. But some others could go to others regions, like Valencia, that shares language and coast and is quite close to it, so maybe it coule bring a bit more of Money and push Valencia a bit. (Yup, I'm ValenciANO)
Also, considering the lack of future planning from the current independentist parties it could bring more catalonians to be against independence and maybe close the issue for a long time once everything falls apart and they see that they arent in the EU and that companies are abandoning them. This could also mean that Catalonia would become poorer and even more dependent in the spanish state, throwing the economical argument for independence out of the window.

I understand us voting to leave the EU, but I don't understand this vote. From the outside it doesn't look like they're any better or worse off than the rest of Spain.

Neutral until I heard Madrid had sent in soldiers, started arresting politicians and shutting down media centers. Literally dictatorship-tier behaviour. I fully support Catalunyan independence.

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Most things are pure bullshit, since the level of autonomy of Catalonia is higher than many federal states. Also most people supporting the secession are extreme lefties and anti-capitalist.

It all started with Spanish-American war. Not joking

My thoughts are this yank who's been constantly posting how much he hates catalonians in every thread for the last two should chill out before he has a massive stroke

>sent in "soldiers"
Gendarmerie folk

Manolo get the civil guard

*last two days

It all started with Fernando VII who was the worst cancer that Spain ever had.

Nah, it all started with Carlos IV

They are richer than most regions and claim that poor regions like Extremadura are oppressing them by stealing their taxes. That's the mainstream (right-wing) raison d'être of Catalan nationalism.
Some left-wing Catalan nationalists see independence as simply a first step towards the destruction of the statu quo, which they find impossible within a kingdom that's part of the EU and always puts the same corrupted idiots in power. In fact, most ardent left-wing nationalists like Gabriel Rufián, David Fernández or J. L. Carod Rovira are quintessential Spaniards whose parents immigrated to Catalonia from the deepest parts of reactionary redneck Spain, whereas right-wing nationalist leaders (Mas, Puigdemont, etc) belong to the centuries-old established Catalan bourgeoisie.

It reminds me of the homage to Catalonia
It was a great book, I always support Catalonia n Independence

If you support cataluña's regionalists you support postmodernist ideologies, identity politics and far left political parties.
Just don't.

>The right of people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (commonly regarded as a jus cogens rule), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms.[1][2] It states that a people, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference.[3]

>far left political parties
Sweet!

No it won't

This will end up in an independence war

Volunteering in Spanish civil war sounds fun.

Most Catalans are Starbucks Marxists, it's going to be fun to see them trying to embrace a rifle. The Basques were a lot tougher, and they still failed to defeat Spain.

You realize I'm talking about the kind o f radical left that would shot you for being male.

Bruh what are you talking about. The biggest indepenentist party is right wing, and Catalans have only had like 2 left wing goverments since democracy

Are catalans white Sup Forums?

they literally look like Jews, not even meming.

this
bring back city states

because other cultures would laugh at us, 2100 Nigeria will have something like 800Mio inhabitants and could march right through Europe

Spain already is irrelevant, broken down to a handful of meme states, Spain is a fucking joke

if you knew anything about the spanish civil war of 1936 you wouldnt speak like that
jesus foreigners are clueless

fuck it

Gib independence

Secessionist faggots are enemies of Venezuela, we will remember how you guys supported Maduro.

Finns have gone through civil war. And until spanish civil war it was called the most devastating civil war in europe.

youtube.com/watch?v=SoENzQ-rOd0

God foreigners are clueless

commies

God, fucking disgusting

ITT people who know nothing about Spain.