I wonder about the supposed illegality of Catalonia’s independence vote. From what I hear, supposedly any part of the country could hold a vote to separate if they were unsatisfied, but the Spanish say it’s not true. Which one is it?
Also, good going increasing the separatist sentiments with this move. I’ve been to several Catalonian locations and it already felt like a different country from the rest of Spain.
>>79721145
Jaxson Johnson
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Adrian Myers
> From what I hear, supposedly any part of the country could hold a vote to separate if they were unsatisfied, but the Spanish say it’s not true.
This is not true.
The Spanish Constitution claims about the indivisibility of the nation and the illegallity of proclaiming the independence of any territory.
In either case, I think that the issue is being handled horribly and will only strenghten the independentists. Even if I consider that holding a referendum is legitimate, even if not really legal.
Nathan Brooks
>supposedly any part of the country could hold a vote to separate if they were unsatisfied
You can read the spanish constitution
>Section 92
>1. Political decisions of special importance
may be submitted to all citizens in a consultative
referendum.
>2. The referendum shall be called by the
King on the President of the Government’s
proposal after previous authorization by the
Congress.
>3. An organic act shall lay down the terms
and procedures for the different kinds of referendum
provided for in this Constitution.
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Sebastian Bailey
Sounds like fascism.
Chase Perez
Read the fucking Constitution.
This is a coup d'état held by catalonians and therefore illegal. Spain is just following the law.
Justin Reed
>This is a coup d'état
Are you not going too far, lad?
>Spain is just following the law.
Badly and with an awful timing, btw. This is gonna explode in our face because of how bad they are handling all the situation.
Leo Cox
>Spain is just following the law.
lolno, they should apply the article 155 right now but they are too scared
Christopher Thompson
Just like what Franco did?
Also you forgot that natural law comes first than local law
Anthony Diaz
Constitution was voted by majority of Spaniards. One of the reasons We had the civil war was because the constitution of the republic was done by and for leftist. Whether You like or not, this was the first time all the spaniards agreed to do something in common, the constitution is matter, It is symbol of stability.
Caleb Diaz
>Just like what Franco did?
How can you compare anything just to the last resort?
Samuel Walker
It was voted 40 years ago. This kind of important stuff needs to be validated again every few years.
Besides, it was an agreement of minimums. The society has evolved since then and so have our needs and desires.
>We had the civil war was because the constitution of the republic was done by and for leftist.
We have a civil war because there was an uprising. Nothing else, nothing more. The causes of it are another matter, but its not the topic we are talking about.
Jose Campbell
>Constitution was voted by majority of Spaniards.
40 years ago when people still had the 'civil war is coming again' syndrome. We need a new to reform it or this country will fall apart.
Parker Diaz
What changes do we need? There are not real solutions to the catalonian problem, no fucking real solution. It doesnt matter how you try to solve it what changes you try; It wont change the situation if not You will make them stronger. You can only let it happen, let spain balkanize.
Easton Williams
It does not depend on what I think that needs to be changed. It is what we all think we need to be changed.
The point is that when the Constitution was discussed, we had just got out of a dictatorship that lasted more than 40 years, that still had a lot of sympathies among the army and that overall was still around. People came to an agreement that was good enough for the people at that time that would allow a calm transition.
Thankfully we are not in that situation anymore. People has already claimed several times that we need some changes, not just limited to the territorial affairs (which are obviously important) but about other things that were accepted back then. Constitutions just cannot be kept unchanged forever (except for those cases when Angela tells us to change it and we do).
>You will make them stronger.
This is the problem. It is not us vs them. Besides, do you think that what is being done in the way it is being done is helping to calm the nerves down?
Sebastian Ward
Well, let's be honest. The law was written to keep Catalonia subjugated. It'd be pretty dang weird if an independence referendum WASN'T illegal. The people gotta revolt. They simply can't get their independence within the confines of the Spanish legal system.
Hudson Morales
>the constitution of the republic was done by and for leftist
So? Fallangists were fascists, fuck em.
Liam Jenkins
Just to be clear. I am for referendums being able to be done, but I disagree with this sentence:
>The law was written to keep Catalonia subjugated
And this comes from someone that considers himself a basque independentist. But to each, its own.
The Constitution forbids the independence of any territory, not just Catalonia, but also Extremadura, for example.
That being said, I really believe in the right of the people of territories to be able to decide wether they want for them.
The problem here is how things are done and how the spanish government does not want to pact a legal referendum (which btw would easily win). In the end, what really fails here is that people are not sitting in a table and really trying to solve the situation. Neither catalans are getting independence in this situation, nor the spanish government is solving a thing but making this movement stronger in the long term.
Jaxon Hall
Even my secessionist bone is starting to tingle, and I was going to vote against in the referendum. They're radicalizing the population and this is not going to end well.
Dylan Miller
>Extremadura
Why would they want to be a country? It's a massive shithole that needs to leech from the rest to merely exist.
Jace Collins
>The Constitution forbids the independence of any territory, not just Catalonia, but also Extremadura, for example.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean that it was written to keep ONLY catalonia subjugated.
Jacob Flores
the law can be changed, the constitution is oppressing ppl, spain must be dismantled
Noah Gray
I am independentist too and I would also be against it because I do not thing the catalan politicians have done a good job. As you said, the polarization and social fracture are things to be afraid of.
I was just using it as an example. No region/province/territory in Spain can secede.
Ok, fair enough. I was just nitpicking.