Muricans, I know it the 4th of July, but don't forget you still gotta pay this somehow. I mean not for nothing but it's a lot of fucking money you owe here.
Muricans, I know it the 4th of July, but don't forget you still gotta pay this...
Nah we can default. Probably for the best honestly because then nobody would extend the government credit for at least a generation.
Try and collect.
20 trillion when?
Yeah, except 80% or so of all your debts is owed to... The American people.
It would be funny, true, to see the entire middle class wiped out with one signature of the president.
In the world of petrodollar we're all paying for this shit
fuck you leaf we're not paying that shit ever
Yea if this happens proud muricans are going to swap their fuck huge lifted trucks for 50cc mopeds.
As long as we have a powerful military we aren't obligated to pay shit to foriegn governments.
Memes are becoming reality.
Yea probably. Would suck initially but what are you gonna do?
Lol you know that most of it is owed to the Federal Reserve right? Most of it is owed to the central bank of the United States.
Money is just an abstract thought. It doesn't really mean anything.
I doubt it would wipe out the middle class. There would be a ton of pissed off seniors though.
me pay this debt? nah, YOU owe ME reparations!
Federal Reserve is a private institution, it's not the "central bank of the United States".
ITT: people that don't *get* fractional reserve banking
Paying off the debt, even if it was possible, would literally break the economy.
It doesn't fucking matter when we're the world reserve current and it still won't matter if we are no longer the world reserve currency.
We play by different rules.
most of the money is owed to the Federal Bank.
Just tell the Federal Reserve Jews to fuck off and create a new currency based on labour and materials provided to the government.
The Federal Reserve is the central bank of the United states.
Lol you know that most of it is owed to the Federal Reserve right?
Most of it is owed to the central bank of the United States.
central bank of the united states
It's mostly money they owe us.
Scammy little niggers
A U D I T
T H E
F E D
Don't even bother reasoning. These people see debt held by a sovereign state the same as household debt.
What do you think Israel owns the Federal Reserve or something?
Why pay when we can just keep rolling it over?
Where else are people going to hide their monies?
I think not.
Yeah, lets just keep adding to that debt.
If its one thing we learned from history its that this system never fails and that its always good to add more debt.
Nah bunch of old people would be pissed. Get x and lower don't buy no do anymore.
Federal reserve is a private institution
The bigger issue than the debt itself is the ridiculous mismanagement of non-existent funds, by the Governments. Not just the US, but ALL countries, including yours.
That needs to be addressed first of all. Then we can worry about chiseling away at debt.
Debt doesn't have to be paid in full. It only requires regular installments. Look, currency is no longer backed by gold. Currency is backed by debt. Debt gives money its value. More accurately, the ability for the country to pay the maintenance on the debt increases the demand for treasury bonds which in turn increases the purchase of debt which in turn increases the value of the currency.
There are numerous other ways for a sovereign to raise and lower the value of its currency. With Brexit and Trump and the rise of right-wing favoritism sweeping the planet, the U.S. and the U.K. are now going to work together to ensure a safe descent as they devalue their currencies. In doing so, they reduce their debt obligations.
Debt can increase as long as the ratio of debt to assets remains the same. If assets are increasing (and they are) then debt can increase with no problems. At a certain point too much debt will be unmanageable but we have not reached that yet.
THANKS FUCKING OBONGO FOR ADDING MORE DEBT THAN ALL OTHER PRESIDENTS COMBINE
Canadian autist makes inflammatory anti American thread because he is an autist taking the fucking leaf meme to heart
People reply to him seriously
He just replies with insults
People keep replying
How long can this go on, how many threads can autistic Canadians make before you dumbasses get it?
Most of that debt is owed to themselves, the interest payments are just transferring more wealth to the domestic 1% mostly
Hey bud, I see you posting, but I don't hear the debt being repaid.
It mostly is
Fucking Keynes and Mankiw have created so much bullshit. Chimera is fucked, debt to gdp is 104,5%
You can always try more quantitive easing, ruining the middle class has worked so greatly in the past.
How many threads like this you make a day? About? The threads at its dying stages so it's just you and me I'm curious.
have to pay the debt I owe myself?
I like when republicans said they weren't paying shit and we got downgraded.<not really>
I'm motivating you to work harder.
Don't worry we have a secret weapon
idk it might fall in on it's self on day, but no time soon.
Times have changed.
No we dont. What are our debters going to do, invade us? Good fucking luck, faggots.
Hilariously, the Fed is both. Only burgers could cuck themselfs which such a bad system.
The thing is liberals dont post like the caricature you guys do. I get what you are saying it just needs to toned down. Rather than just hurl memes and insults go to daily kos and gawker, find arguments there where liberals already have sources for you and post that here. That is much better in terms of training people here to fight the left.
enjoy your hyperinflation :^)
but no time soon.
you never know user. Interest rates on US debt only have to rise to 3% or some shit before paying the interest requires the majority of the taxbase to pay. Then poof. All it takes is one big economic shock.
A new kind of Canadian shit-posting: nagging mother tier
KYS MY MAN
Nope, we actually don't. We can just print money like we have been doing, because the whole world accepts USD even though it's garbage fiat.
We can just print money like we have been doing
that trick stops working when no one wants your debt anymore.
3%? The Fed can't even raise them by 0.25%. 3% would absolutely obliterate the US economy.
stop using the dollar. If you default, dollar collapses. A huge source of US wealth and power.
lol we'll just keep raising tax rates until its 50% and paying back interest on loans is the largest government program.
Yes, debt is simply fucking amazing. Just keep borrowing. There is nothing wrong with your hard-earned money going to interest so the government could borrow more to pay off more interest.
It is technically private, but it is heavily watched over by public officials
printing money always leaders to hyper inflation
Right now what the Fed is doing is leading to more hyperinflation then printing would.
we will not pay denbts
America owes 66 gorillion, coincidence?
In which currency do you buy energy?
well that is the trick. But even when it happens we usually handle it well.
there is no hyperinflation now
usually dollars. But it's not as common as it was before.
The image I really want isn't fucking loading and most of the graphs that have huge spikes in 2010-2015 are PROJECTIONS from scaremongers which anticipated the Medicare reform bankrupting America which didn't happen.
The 2008 recession which halted GDP growth and prompted government relief programs did cause a bit of a jump but it has since leveled out and is starting to go back down again (as GDP is starting to grow again).
how to fix the debt problem
cut military spending to $300 billion a year
cut medicare/medicaid to $600 billion a year
cut social security,unemployment to $800 billion a year
that right there knocks $1.2 trillion off the budget
U.S would actually have a surprlus of $600 billion dollars a year to pay off the debt and what not
It's still really high. It's not considered healthy to have national debt of +100% GDP.
Is there a country out there without this kind of debt?
yes. Most countries don't have debt as high as the US. Ireland is not among them though...
even if it's not US debt high, does it ever go down for them?
Yeah, britain has insane debt centuries ago and is still steadily reducing their debt. It's not unfixable. But it's dangerous.
Also the US sort of defaulted in the 70's by leaving the gold standard in response countries losing confidence in the dollar and getting it exchanged for the gold it was due to be worth.
Sure it's high, maybe it's even too high (right now it definitely is, but 2008 was a pretty drastic time and required drastic action). But the point is the old propaganda about "out of control debt" is a lie. Debt is very much controlled and it's SUPPOSED to grow proportionally with the GDP because the future strength of the economy is what we are investing in and they are the ones who pay off the current debt. Of course if the GDP ever started shrinking or even just stopped growing then we'd be in serious trouble (like Puerto Rico), but the American bond has been considered a global safe-haven of reliability for a reason.
Famous last words, I know, but the point I want to make is that people who view debt as a problem usually see debt as this nebulous, ever-growing problem that we sweep under the rug, but it's not. Debt is a very fluid market process which operates on the fundamental principal that money now is more valuable to a nation than money later. America CONTINUOUSLY pays off its debt and it usually doesn't resort to market-damaging effects such as printing more money to do it. Instead, it pays off its debt because the market always grows (and thus taxes always grow), so even though we are always borrowing more money than we are paying back, we are never short on money to pay back what we owe.
A doom-sayer might say might say we're at "peak something-or-other" and we gotta stop borrowing now because the market's about to stop growing, but considering the revolutions in technology going on and how under-utilized they still are, I don't see the market growth stopping any time soon.
Debt is very much controlled and it's SUPPOSED to grow proportionally with the GDP because the future strength of the economy is what we are investing in and they are the ones who pay off the current debt.
Yes, but it's not supposed to be too high either. 100% of GDP is widely considered to be past a danger line. Having debt is not an issue. Too much debt is. The US has too much. If nothing else it even is a national security issue as if the US wanted to start wars with Russia or China, both could easily cripple the US economy by crashing their debt markets. Russia and China would be hurt, but are ultimately far less dependant on debt.
but the American bond has been considered a global safe-haven of reliability for a reason.
because it has been relatively reliable. German debt is considered safer, it even has negative yields on 10y bonds now. US bonds are considered safe because the market has confidence, and that can shatter very quickly in a bad financial environment.
Instead, it pays off its debt because the market always grows (and thus taxes always grow), so even though we are always borrowing more money than we are paying back, we are never short on money to pay back what we owe.
What's the benefit of the debt if everyone is always paying off the old debt and with interest, and borrowing new debt? The US would default today if it couldn't borrow money because it pays so much interest it needs new debt just to pay the interest on the old debt. That's not stable. A fluctuation in bond yields can trigger a default. Debt is good for liquidity, but too much is a real problem.
we are never short on money to pay back what we owe.
As i said before, the US basically defaulted when it left the gold standard. People asked for the gold back that the dollars were exchangeable for. In response the US said they're not exchangeable for gold any more """""temporarily""""".
I'm not going to disagree that we're flirting with dangerous rates post 2008, but nobody is going to dispute that and no one ever would have proposed that the relief programs that were instituted in response to the 2008 recession (some successful, some unsuccessful) were ever supposed to be "the new normal." Even with growth it's pretty much mathematically unfeasible to maintain a debt larger than your GDP and still pay it off. So in the immediate, I'm not going to argue it's a big problem. But these anti-debt Ross Perot types have existed long before it became a problem.
What's the benefit of the debt if everyone is always paying off the old debt and with interest, and borrowing new debt?
Because the money that we borrowed was put into programs which helped the economy grow and made the government more money. That's how investment works. The government is a business.
As for the gold standard, I'm not too familiar with the history of exactly when and why it went away, but once the global market truly became a global market, keeping a treasure trove of precious metals in case of emergencies ceased having any meaning. The value of the reserve probably should have been liquidated more gradually, but the economy crashes globally these days and the value of gold jumping every time the global economy took a hit sure as hell wouldn't be happening if all the major governments kept a gold standard. To put it simply, who is everyone going to buy everything from if everyone is having troubles?