Why are you against the idea of requiring people to acquire a gun license to purchase a weapon? I have no issue with people being able to buy assault weapons like the AR-15, but I do not think anyone on the street should be able to walk into the store and buy one.
What is the argument against having people get a license and go through a process? To be honest I feel much safer in Canada because any mentally ill person cannot simply walk into a store and buy an assault weapon to kill people with.
Thoughts? Thanks, I am genuinely trying to understand the pro gun argument on this issue. I am a libertarian myself but still think there should be some regulations to keep people safe.
The issue is that the government gets to decide whether you're fit to buy a gun.
At what point does someone become "mentally ill"?
What if they decided that if you don't trust the government you're mentally ill, because the government would never harm you and is there to protect you?
Aaron Price
Every example in history of large-scale registration of firearms has resulted in confiscation of said firearms: Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, Mao's China.
Even in what previously passed for Western Democratic nation states where guns have since been restricted, registration lists have been used as a means to ultimately confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens.
Michael Evans
Because that won't really prevent mass shootings, ex Adam Lanza
I'm fine with CCW requiring a permit and being like a drivers lisense, because thats effectively what it is. Without one (drivers lisense or CCW permit) you can use your car/gun however you like on private property (yes you can driver a car without a lisense legally on private property as long as the owner consents alongside some other little exceptions) but you need a lisense/CCW permit to bring it out. If a CCW permit was as hard to get as a drivers lisense and regulated as such that'd be fine.
Matthew Morales
Why are liberals against the idea of people having to work for a living?
Why can't refugees be kept in camps and sent back when safe?
Why can't a man marry 2 women?
Why can Hillary break the law with impunity?
Why do we need to make it harder for law abiding citizens to own guns when criminals won't bother with it?
Why don't we trade this restriction with a repeal of a previous restriction? For instance, new automatics can be manufactured, but to get one of them or a semi-auto assault rifle, you have to do a shall issue registration?
Why do we care about rifles when handguns kill 20x as many people?
Why are you trolling?
Lucas Morales
Most of those are valid complaints but you sucessfully dodged the question better than Trump does
Samuel Bell
>What is the argument against having people get a license and go through a process?
When purchasing a weapon people go through a process called a background check. Felons and the mentally ill are barred from owning weapons and denied the sale.
>I have no issue with people being able to buy assault weapons like the AR-15
A pistol grip and foregrip don't make a normal rifle an assault rifle.
>I am a libertarian myself but
"I am a libertarian myself but I also want to restrict the law and remove any sort of due process."
Nolan Kelly
Mentally ill people cannot walk into a store in america and buy a gun. NICS exists and has for decades. Do some basic research before making threads.
Also, the AR-15 is not an rifle. "Assault weapon" is a meaningless buzzword made to try to associate the AR-15 (and other semi-auto rifles) with actual assault rifles.
Angel Sanders
Because owning guns is a constitutionally guaranteed right. It would be the equivalent of needing a license to publish a newspaper, or go to church, or shitpost on a Laotian interior decorating forum.
Also, because the left has stated numerous times that their end goal is the complete removal of civilian gun ownership, it's not a stretch to think that they might abuse the ability to license gun ownership. Say for instance, you keep sending in your application for a gun license, but for some reason it keeps getting "lost" in the mail.
Samuel Cooper
Because we've already "compromised" like 6 times in the last century and you faggy fucks don't ever quit. Plus a compromise requires the other party to give something up, which you haven't. So no. Go fuck yourself. No more. I hope you die to gun violence.
Jeremiah Peterson
Negatory, my rebuttal was why don't we trade this restriction for repeal of auto ban.
Gun rights crew has compromised 20x, gun control crowd needs to start compromising. Giving in to someone who has a new demand every month is pointless, you'll soon find yourself a slave. If we give in on this, everyone knows it won't be the end of it.
Jack Allen
>To be honest I feel much safer in Canada because any mentally ill person cannot simply walk into a store and buy an assault weapon to kill people with.
Sure they can, if they're not diagnosed yet, which sociopaths can reliably pull off.
t. omar
>licensing rights Fuck you.
Henry Reyes
I just do not see an issue with society deciding that if you want to get a weapon you should be required to at least have a license. This makes it so that any random dude on the street cannot wake up and decide to go on a kill spree. With multiculturalism and more Muslims you are going to have to figure out a solution to this problem one way or another. I just don't understand why people have an issue with this. At some point the option will be to decide between a full out ban or some common sense solutions.
I've never heard one person in Canada complain about having to get a license to operate a firearm.
Evan Cooper
>To be honest I feel much safer in Canada because any mentally ill person cannot simply walk into a store and buy an assault weapon to kill people with Do you honestly think we don't have that in America?
And stop calling it "assault weapon". That's a bullshit term invented by braindead liberals who know nothing about firearms. An AR 15 is a semiautomatic firearm like literally every other modern gun on the market today.
Ethan Turner
The question was why you oppose requiring a permit to own a gun,
Isaiah Collins
When you get a license you're getting permission. If you have a right you don't need permission to exercise it
Do you understand English?
Jose Evans
If you are a big gun advocate you should also be in favor of measures that promote gun safety. Not one person here wants to take your guns. It just doesn't make sense in an increasingly diverse society that Muhammed can go to the gun store and purchase an assault weapon and kill a bunch of people. It will never hold up long term your second amendment as it stands does not work for today's society.
Cooper Gutierrez
Because I'm not a cuck who thinks the government gets to dictate who can and cannot exercise a fundamental human right.
Hudson Lee
I don't need a permit to exercise my 1st amendment rights, why do I need one to exercise my 2nd amendment rights?
Criminals don't need permits to carry guns, why do I?
Easton Johnson
And that's the answer, I oppose any new gun control law out of common sense. Give a little and you may get a little. Try to take what little is left and you get nothing.
If you can't understand how this is an answer to the question, you're fucking stupid.
Jayden Hall
i have multiple issues with requiring free citizens to obtain permission to exercise a constitutional guaranteed right. the first that comes to mind is addressed in the first sentence i wrote. a second issue is that such a system would place a monetary obstruction to exercising ones second amendment right. a third issue is that government run systems are regularly abused and perform their intended task slowly, expensively, and ineffectively. i can keep going, but i won't. i have an independence day party to get ready for.
Grayson Nelson
>I've never heard one person in Canada complain about having to get a license to operate a firearm. Now you have.
Jaxson Diaz
>This makes it so that any random dude on the street cannot wake up and decide to go on a kill spree.
That makes sense. It's not like there's an illegal arms trade not subject to your licenses.
Dominic Davis
>Why are you against the idea of requiring people to acquire a gun license to purchase a weapon? I have no issue with people being able to buy assault weapons like the AR-15, but I do not think anyone on the street should be able to walk into the store and buy one. I agree, which is why not anyone can buy an AR-15. You have to have up-to-date residence info and pass a background check.
Now you may be saying "that's what I meant to say..." but people who push for gun control always fudge these facts, willingly or unwillingly, to make it seem like it's easier than it is to get a gun.
>What is the argument against having people get a license and go through a process? To be honest I feel much safer in Canada because any mentally ill person cannot simply walk into a store and buy an assault weapon to kill people with.
A mentally ill person also can't buy an assault weapon in the US. atf.gov/file/61446/download >11 f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? If you lie, that's a crime too.
>Thoughts? Thanks, I am genuinely trying to understand the pro gun argument on this issue. I am a libertarian myself but still think there should be some regulations to keep people safe.
My point is that the legislation that always gets talked about DOES NOT SOLVE BIG PROBLEMS. The FBI always finds pistols are the most common firearm used in homicides, and that gangs are the most common perpetrators of homicides. Why not propose legislation on more severe penalties for illegal gun possessions, do something serious about stopping gangs, etc...
Thomas Howard
>presses the .38 button >a Browning Hi-Power comes out
Angel Scott
>I just do not see an issue with society deciding that if you want to get a weapon you should be required to at least have a license
Because you should not be required to spend extra time and money to exercise the basic right to purchase the means to protect yourself, your family, and your property. Additionally, because, as seen in much of western europe, once you give the government the power not to deny the right to specific individuals but deny it to EVERYONE and only specifically give those rights back, they can easily make the system so expensive and impractical that you essentially make gun ownership impossible for most people without ever having to formally ban gun ownership entirely.
>I've never heard one person in Canada complain about having to get a license to operate a firearm.
There are some that do. Obviously less than those who would oppose such an idea in america, but that's because we have less shitty leftist cucks per capita, and also because your system has been in place for many years, a lot of people literally can't remember back before it was in place.
Chase Rogers
>not knowing about based .38 Super
Julian Johnson
>Also, the AR-15 is not an rifle Not trying to be a pedant, but did you accidentally a word, because it very clearly is a rifle.
Benjamin Gray
"Damn, Timmy just got the Bersa Thunder too!"
Andrew Thompson
>Why are you against consenting gay people doing things in the privacy of their own home? I'm not... >Why are you against gay people having domestic partnerships? I'm not, and it's a slippery slope into pretending these people are married, but okay I guess I'll be a nice guy and pretend to be okay with this degeneracy >Why are you against gay marriage? Because marriage is between a man and a women, and I think its a slippery slope, but okay I can pretend that this is okay >Why are you against pride parades where 'men' prance around like retards in speedos showing off their bare bodies to children on the street Because children shouldn't see that shit, and we shouldn't be celebrating pride in one's own mental illness, and AGAIN slippery slope >Why don't you like that the cartoons your children watch have a bunch of gay characters? >What is your problem against suing christian bakers, forcing them to make sinful degenerate wedding cakes for two fruits with mental illnesses? >Why don't you want old perverted men to put on wigs and be free to go into the same restroom your 5 year old daughter uses?
So to answer your question OP, its a slippery slope giving up gun rights, because eventually the left will stop targetting """"((((ASSAULT))))""""" rifles and will instead want to impose a waiting period to buy a kitchen knife.
Jackson King
I know people are really emotionally charged about this issue but you can't tell me with a straight face that it makes sense anyone can acquire an AR-15 without any type of process. You either need to make these concessions or these weapons will be fully banned. Pick one.
Colton Parker
an assault rifle. My apologies. Reading the word "assault weapon" gave me an aneurysm and I skipped a word
Zachary Anderson
>26 since 9/11 Except 50 died in pulse, so your numbers are an obvious fake.
Mason Gutierrez
I'm all for talking about common sense gun laws, but I'm also for repealing the stupid shit that we know doesn't work first.
David Garcia
>You either need to make these concessions or these weapons will be fully banned. >EITHER FACE A FULL BAN AGAINST GUNS OR MAKE CONCESSIONS NOW! FOLLOWED BY ANOTHER CONCESSION NEXT YEAR! AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL THEY'RE FULLY BANNED ANYWAY :^)
dude weed lmao
Alexander Martinez
What do you mean any type of process?
Colton Thomas
No worries! I know how you feel... Happy 4th, brother
Jason Turner
Get raped, shall not be infringed. A licence is an infringement
Adrian Baker
>I do not think anyone on the street should be able to walk into the store and buy one. I don't think people that can't be trusted with a rifle should be free to walk on a street.
Why do we let dangerous people walk free?
Aaron Rogers
Because there's no way the image couldn't include 2016, right? >implying Pulse wasn't a false flag anyway
Jason King
READ THE THREAD
YOU CANNOT BUY AN AR-15 OR ANY OTHER FIREARM IN AMERICA FROM ANY LEGAL STORE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH NICS, THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM, WHICH PROHIBITS FELONS AND THOSE DIAGNOSED WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS FROM PURCHASING FIREARMS.
And yes, mass shootings can be done by people who aren't documented felons or mentally ill. But guess what, these same people can get your stupid license! Or just buy a gun illegally from a straw purchaser or unlicensed gun seller!
Camden Williams
So then what you are suggesting is that no private sales can take place?
Logan Foster
Whenever I read these threads it always feels like the lefties deliberately ignore the facts they're presented and choose to say, "but how do we stop gun crimes without banning guns." Like they always conveniently forget that criminals are criminals because they don't adhere to the law.
Hunter Anderson
>assault weapons like the AR-15
Get better at shilling you beak nosed cunt
Juan Hughes
Gun control laws have no measurable benefit and both the state governments and the Federal government are known to abuse licensing power. MLK himself couldn't get a conceal carry license.
Anthony Rogers
>Why are you against the idea of requiring people to acquire a gun license to purchase a weapon?
Personally I don't think it's an issue if the country has a relatively small pool of firearms in public hands already. However, in the US, South Africa, Serbia, places like that it's pointless. All you're doing is inconveniencing law abiding people. Licences don't stop people from committing crimes, especially when you have more guns than people.
For instance, I have a PPW. I carry it every time I'm at work and every time I leave the house. The only time I'm not carrying it is when I'm in the airport. I do not enjoy carrying it. I enjoy shooting on a recreational basis and I spent 12 years in the Infantry, but I do not really enjoy carrying a sidearm on me. I've got it due to my job, but I still have to go through the licencing motions. It's viewed as necessary.
What I'm driving at here is that the person who is likely to ambush me or attempt to kidnap me, which isn't unknown in Northern Ireland, is never going to be carrying a licenced firearm. He doesn't play by the rules. By that standard I'm already off to a bad start. The criminals, by virtue of being criminals, don't care about the licencing process or correct use of a sidearm.
Why make the process any harder for people who abide by the law?
Christopher Robinson
Even if this is true, you forgot to mention the gun show loophole and private sales.
Jacob King
Guns without licenses (like a police badge) are not permitted on public property
just as cars without licenses are not permitted on public roads
Carson Brooks
I just think it's common sense. Want a gun? Get a license. Again, making a concession on common sense issues by no means you are not going to be able to purchase your guns.
Ryan Morgan
>I just think it's common sense. Want a gun? Get a license. Again, making a concession on common sense issues by no means you are not going to be able to purchase your guns.
Should people that want to vote need a license?
Brody Lee
Everyone mentions the gun show loophole that doesn't exist. You still have to call the instant background check line. If you don't it's a felony.
David Wood
It would be "common sense" if we were starting from day zero and the firearm was invented 24 hours ago.
It wasn't, we aren't, so it isn't.
Joshua Walker
Fuck off
Lucas King
>common sense issues
You can't just define your own opinions as "common sense" and imply people who disagree with you lack common sense libshitter.
If you think everyone should need a license then explain why and how it would actually help in real life situations. What would you achieve with it? Most of these calls for regulations is just doing something for the sake of doing it, it actually has no positive effect.
Why do you want to restrict freedom if you can't actually prove that it would have positive effects? Freedom isn't free leaf.
Hudson Lewis
what happens when political dissidents get labeled as """terrorists""" or """mentally unwell""" and only those chosen by the people in power are allowed to be armed because of what once started as an attempt to license and regulate something that should not be infringed?
hmmm, really makes you think doesn't it
Nathan Rivera
OP, I compiled this together for people like you, who do not fully understand the viewpoints of gun owners.
Why is it all of the sudden guns are now a problem for America?
Evan Scott
How about making the requirement to have no criminal record? Iirc there is a correlation between IQ and criminality so this way we can build up a good system which empowers the good people while punishing the bad guys.
Isaac Adams
>How about making the requirement to have no criminal record? Felons already can't legally buy guns. Is this how retarded gun grabbers are that they ask for laws that already exist?
Ryder Sullivan
>be american >died to my chair falling on top of me
Nathaniel Wilson
How about, once you've been released from jail, you have the option of going to court, as many times as you want, to regain your full rights instead of having them forever stripped from you for the rest of your life, even though you are no longer serving time in jail?
Brayden Perez
>How about making the requirement to have no criminal record? We already fucking have that retard
Aaron Roberts
That's how it works currently. If you're a convicted felon you can't own guns, if you try to buy one they'll deny you after they run a background check and see you have a record.
I think felons can't legally operate firearms even if it's not their own either.
Of course following the law isn't criminals strong suit.
Eli King
Wrong.
"assault weapon" was a term invented by the gun industry
>Why are you against the idea of requiring people to acquire a gun license to purchase a weapon? Waste of taxpayer money and is unconstitutional bullshit that won't actually do anything but make a right legally a privilege.
Owen Jones
my gun license is the second amendment if you don't like it get a Delorean set the date for December 15, 1791 and take it up with them.
Camden Cooper
>/r/GunsAreCool wew lad
John Garcia
im a sociopath, you think lying and manipulation to bypass this system would be hard?
Jace Jackson
>Wasn't even fishing for so many (you)s My point was that there is a rigorous way of drawing the line. It wasn't my intention to imply this not how it is done in america.
It's debatable if simply serving jail time is a effective rehabilitation program, but I see your point.
Josiah Morales
>OP keeps getting shut down >Continues to keep posting the same dumb argument and ignoring every post
Why are you here?
Benjamin Robinson
>posts antigun subreddit >posts Horsey
100% B8
Nicholas Ramirez
>my gun license is the second amendment The second amendment only recognizes a right that already exist and puts legal protections on said right against government infringement
Yeah, but that's exactly how it works in america and it sure as hell doesn't prevent criminals from getting guns. I think it makes total sense that convicted felons shouldn't be able to buy guns but we have to realize that they'll get them anyways.
So if the goal is to prevent criminals from getting guns simply making it illegal won't work. That's the problem with gun laws, they'll punish law abiding citizen but not affect criminals in the slightest.
Just like the EU ban for semi autos. Doesn't affect crime or terrorism in any way, it only means that they ban sport and hunting weapons that normal people enjoy.
Cameron Davis
>assault weapon
Triggered.
Nolan Cook
What is the argument? Respect for the people's rights. I don't demand you have to go to the government to get a permit/license before going online where you could sell information on troop locations and activity at various military bases in your locale.
Further more look at actual statistics. Rifles of any sort are used in an immeasurably small amount of homicides yearly, while handguns are used in 45x more homicides yet no one complains about handguns.
The mentally ill can't buy guns, they would be declined on their NICS check when trying to buy one.
Matthew Cook
>I think it makes total sense that convicted felons shouldn't be able to buy guns Nah fuck that If you're so bad as to not be able to legally exercise all of your rights then you shouldn't be out of prison. Fuck this creating of a whole permanent group of second class citizens.
Besides there are assloads of felons who have never done anything violent to another person in their lives stripped of their rights for life
Camden Adams
THe "gun show loophole" doesn't exist. Gun shows are run by FFL holders who use nics
What you're calling for is regulation of private sales. Regulation that is impossible given that the sales are, you know, private
Brayden Rodriguez
>So if the goal is to prevent criminals from getting guns simply making it illegal won't work. I can see how we ought to strive to minimize the possibility for criminals to be armed as much as possible, but you cannot simply cure criminality by having a good legislation.
Henry Lopez
This
If you paid your debt to society you should have all your rights restored, not be punished for life. If you can't be trusted with a firearm you should not be out on the streets.
Matthew Brown
In America, we have the right to own guns, and we have the right to a press free from governmental prior restraint.
Maybe Canadians don't complain about their lack of freedom. Maybe they think it's a good trade.
Whatever, it's not my business to tell you how to run your society. It's stable and it works for you.
The US has been stable with it's balance of rights, also. The problem is when monarchists, socialists, fascists, etc come over and want our hundreds of millions of people to swap -- immediately -- a basic right away, for moonshine and promises, just because some tiny dot in Europe with a decades-old constitution says it seems to be working well for them.
Those people aren't just un-American, but anti-American and have no place in a free society.
Ryan Reed
>Less than 2% of criminals got firearms rom gunshows before background checks were even mandatory for gun dealers Shut up faggot
Sebastian Hall
>What is the argument against having people get a license and go through a process?
First, the second amendment and constitution in general
Second, I don't need a reason to be allowed to do something. You need a reason to prevent people from being allowed to do something, and that's not a thing you have.
Adrian Flores
Likewise for the dangerously mentally ill. If someone is too dangerous to handle a firearm, they're too dangerous to drive a car or walk on our sidewalks.
Leo Robinson
There is no gunshow loophole. Every dealer at a gun show has to go through a background check for every buyer.
And private sales are a means for people to do what they will with their own property that they paid for without having the government's permission. Besides, how do you go about regulating and enforcing private sales?
Ayden Gutierrez
Why do you americans not just mention the fact that the guns per 100 people count negatively correlates with the firearm related homicide rate?
Jeremiah Anderson
With laws.
Juan Wood
What if I told you that everything you've been told about God-fearing, red-blooded Americans is a lie?
James King
It doesn't. It does negatively correlate with total murder but they don't care, because facts don't matter to them, feelings do
Dominic Fisher
>Firearm related x Someone failed highschool stats class Look up the definition of cherrypicking and how it invalidates stats. See
John Ward
OK. *poof* Private sales are now outlawed
Do you really think that's going to stop Tyrone from buying a stolen gun from Jamal in his car? They'll now willingly go to a gun store for a background check they know they can't pass?
Or do you think it will only impact Bob down the street who now has to drive across town and pay extra money to have the government' s cock up his ass to have a background check to sell a gun to his son? And for what? Because criminals are committing crimes yet he's not?
C'mon you can't be this dense
Levi Reyes
Still not enough of a problem to warrant the proposed overreactions.
We are still dealing with the knee jerk over reactions, eg the patriot act, after 911.
Back in the 1980s there were many highjackings, and I could still carry a pocket knife and a tube of toothpaste on an air plane. Because people weren't zero-tolerance cowards then.
Anthony Cruz
Even Gary Johnson sides with the democrats on these issues. Republicans have been bought off by special interest groups like the NRA for a very long time.
With laws he said Whooo booy he really thought that one through.
We should probably make murder against the law as well.
Isaiah Gutierrez
kek
Syed Farouk's friend gave him the guns used in San Bernardino
Private transfers are illegal in CA
Camden Ward
Laws don't enforce themselves. How do you stop tyrone from selling leshawn a hi point with his kilo of dope?
Daniel Martin
>cherrypicking How is this a fallacy in this case. Literally all graphs in that list show that are only weak correlations between X and guns per 100.
Kayden Hill
This. Just put everyone who might be a danger on a "no walk" watch list and keep 'em under house arrest. Everyone else can drive a car, read a book, buy a gun, and vote, since we know they are perfectly safe to society.
Justin Green
What problem is a gun license going to solve exactly?
Adam Reyes
Basically you're giving the government an arbitrary method of denying people a fundamental liberty.
Thomas Harris
>Gary Johnson sides with the democrats on these issues Who gives a fuck? He's been anti gun for ages
And you think the NRA is really that well funded compared to the anti gun lobbyists? And why are they so vilified by you people? Literally every industry in the world has lobbyists, why is the NRA so bad?
