I really want to experience traditional Meso-American culture and way of life...

I really want to experience traditional Meso-American culture and way of life. It's such a shame that the Spaniards had to chimp out and fuck it up so bad. Countries like Germany and Sweden don't deserve the shit they're getting nowadays but Spain unironically does and a thousand times more.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=5q6JvUl_9oA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_in_the_Great_Temple
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichimeca_War
youtube.com/watch?v=C6BUU2HXECk
houstonculture.org/mexico/zacatecas.html
youtube.com/watch?v=OkzFHaggNBo
youtube.com/watch?v=QygIji-rGbI
youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EZxFCWe6E
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>but Spain unironically does and a thousand times more.
This, Portugal, too.

>It's such a shame that the Spaniards had to chimp out and fuck it up so bad
Australian education:
>got there
>ask for gold
>it just so happens that the natives get sick by chance
>SPANIARDS ARE MURDERERS

>This is what Spaniards actually believe

I would have loved to see Tenochtitlan in its prime.

>it just so happens that the natives get sick by chance
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
youtube.com/watch?v=5q6JvUl_9oA

I really want to experience traditional aboriginal culture and way of life. It's such a shame that the Australians had to chimp out and fuck it up so bad. Countries like Germany and Sweden don't deserve the shit they're getting nowadays but Australia unironically does and a thousand times more.

Me too or at least the lake Texcoco

>it wuz dem Spaniards... yes, a few hundred of dem Spains shit killed MILLIONS!
>Black legend
Like the Angl* you are.

t. Spanicuck/Dago trying to deflect

Abos have no way of life.

>Said the biggest cleanser of indigenous people

I thought you were nice until you said this

sexpat AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJ

Yes lad, the filthy disease carrying Spaniards waged war on the Natives because of their greed and the idea of spreading their religion by all means necessary. It wasn't an "oops" moment. Whats funny is that the tribes native to where I was born held off the Spaniards for years. The Spaniards had to bribe them with goods in order to bring peace.

>According to the Spanish the Aztecs sacrificed 10 000 children every year., yet only 42 sacrificed children have been found in the most important temple of the empire. 42 children in 200 years. On the exact same spot the Spanish massacred 8 000 - 10 000 unarmed nobles and their children in a couple of hours.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_in_the_Great_Temple

>While Hernán Cortés was in Tenochtitlan, he heard about other Spaniards arriving on the coast – Pánfilo de Narváez had come from Cuba with orders to arrest him – and Cortés was forced to leave the city to fight them. During his absence, Moctezuma asked deputy governor Pedro de Alvarado for permission to celebrate Toxcatl. But after the festivities had started, Alvarado interrupted the celebration, killing almost everyone present at the festival, men, women, and children alike. Unarmed and trapped within the walls of the Sacred Precinct, an estimated 8,000–10,000 Aztec nobles were killed.

>At this time, when everyone was enjoying the celebration, when everyone was already dancing, when everyone was already singing, they came to close the exits. At that moment, they then attacked all the people, stabbing them, spearing them, wounding them with their swords. They struck some from behind, who fell instantly to the ground with their entrails hanging out [of their bodies]. They cut off the heads of some and smashed the heads of others into little pieces. They struck others in the shoulders and tore their arms from their bodies. They struck some in the thighs and some in the calves. They slashed others in the abdomen and their entrails fell to the earth. There were some who even ran in vain, but their bowels spilled as they ran; they seemed to get their feet entangled with their own entrails.

>muh anglo propaganda
:DDDD

The meso-american genocide is spains greatest military achievement since forever. Let them have pride in that at least.

>The meso-american genocide is spains greatest military achievement since forever.
not really

How am I wrong? I spent an entire semester learning about the Aztecs at school. They were amazingly sophisticated despite everything against them and their culture is complex.
Abos don't have any of that.

>n-no, it WAS the few hundreds Spaniards, not the illness and the inwars among the natives
LMAO.

the interwars of the natives did not destroy their own people by the millions and completely wiped out their culture

>one massacre means the massacre of the whole native people
>english source
Literal BLACK legend.

Weak bait, but I'll bite.

The sources for that massacre come from a book from the twentieth century book whose sources come from a language with no writing system, even the spanish war diaries are said to be bullshit due to them being an excuse for an easy promotion after the return to Spain

Exactly, it was done by a few hundred Spaniards!
;)

The disgusting disease goes hand and hand with the Spaniards, you can't separate them.

>be Spaniard
>wage 40 year war against hunters and gatherers
>lose
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichimeca_War
>It was the longest and most expensive conflict between Spaniards and any indigenous peoples of Mexico in the history of the Spanish Empire. The result of the forty-year war was a Spanish military and economic defeat.

Fucking faggots lmfao

>implying losing some literal WHO war matters in the bigger picture

TFW Waiting for the return of the nordic lord Quetsalcoatl.

>sources come from a language with no writing system

>”These people had no letters nor script, neither knew to write nor read. They communicated with images and paintings and all their history and books were recorded in figures and images, with which they knew about their ancestors and had memory of what they did and what they left recorded for more than a thousand years before the Spanish arrived to this land.”

>”Most of these books and recordings were burnt as other idolatries, but many of them are still hidden. After we came to this land to preach our fate we gathered many young men in our homes and taught them to write, read and sing. As they did well we ensured to teach them grammar and a school in Santiago de Tlatelolco was built for this purpose. This school received the most able young men from all the neighboring towns. ”

>”The Spanish and clergymen who knew about this laughed and mocked, being sure that no one could teach grammar to people so unskillful, but working with them for two or three years they came to understand every art and subject of grammar and speak Latin, both written and spoken and even to write heroic verses. ”

>”As the secular and ecclesiastic clergymen saw this they became frightened of such thing being possible: I was the one who worked with them for the first four years and taught them about Latin and its knowledge. ”
>”As they saw that this project would continue and that they were improving, and they were constantly achieving more, the clerics started to disapprove the school and object about the risks of idolatry this implied. ”
- Florentine Codex by Friar Bernardino de Sahagun, Tenth Book, Inform of the author
The College of Tlatelolco closed 5 years after Sahagun's death

>d-doesnt matter!

Spaniards are such fucking cucks hahaha. How does it feel knowing that the biggest threat you faced the Natives was your filthy lifestyle? Showering maybe once every two weeks and being used to living next to your own waste.

Learn how to condense your sources, also, stop using so much greentext, it makes your posts unreadable.

fuck up incatard

Yeah I'm sure the natives were conquered and enslaved by accident, haha whoops!

>enslaved
They weren't.They were too soft and weak to do any heavy work.That is why niggers had to be imported.Natives were just cum buckets and feudal subjects

>he is trying to pain Spaniards as monsters
>"lmao you lost some battles"

what did aztecs mean by this?

Yep, ideograms, but those have limitations specially when they are potrayed as they are, in that case it becomes explanatory drawings, either you go full chinaman or it hardly counts as language.

Natives were enslaved at first but enslaving Africans became more profitable

>and enslaved
Wew

The Maya script is a complete writing system but the Aztec script isn't entirely ideographic. It has some syllabic properties.

>Natives were enslaved at first
Yeah the ones from the caribean.Not aztecs or incas.Natives could not be enslaved under spanish law.They were too weak to do heavy work either way so them remaining cum buckets and peasants was the most logical move

Just a comfy winter.

>They were too soft and weak to do any heavy work.
diseases from the new world introduced to the old world:
- a bed bug infection
- syphilis (disputed)

diseases from the old world introduced to the new world:
- bubonic plague
- chicken pox
- cholera
- diphtheria
- influenza
- leprosy
- malaria
- measles
- scarlet fever
- smallpox
- typhoid
- typhus
- whooping cough
- yaws
- yellow fever

>inb4 they had a weak immune system
the bubonic plague alone killed 25-60% of the european population during the 14th century

>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms (16.8-18m) in length, without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only sav that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Fifth Letter of Relation by Cortes to Charles V

The indigenous Mexicans were enslaved early on but Spaniards came up with some bullshit about them being gente de razon therefore they should not be enslaved. It was pointless anyway since Criollos frequently disobeyed the Crown all throughout the colonial period.

fuck spain

I was talking about them being phisically weak which is the same even to this day.Natives are really short,unathletic and weak.Blacks were used in mines because natives died to fast.

In that age all west europeans colonize continents like a hobby

youtube.com/watch?v=C6BUU2HXECk

lmao shut the fuck up

>The indigenous Mexicans were enslaved early on
Encomiendas is not slavery.It was just feudalism.After Columbus little experiment in Santo Domingo the crown decided to not enslave the natives as they were dying to fast.

>I love bbc

Oh yeah 2 5'7 manlets that weight less than 140 pounds hitting each other really shows me how great natives were for heavy work.

lol in Mexico the people who mined silver were indigenous.

houstonculture.org/mexico/zacatecas.html

Afromexicans live near the coasts

Black slaves were better for mining or other heavy work.Mostly as they were selected to do that and were simply more phisically fit than natives that are the shortest people in the world and tend to gain fat instead of muscle

The Aztecs went from wandering nomads to the largest empire in the Americas in only 200 years.

Show me their african features:
youtube.com/watch?v=OkzFHaggNBo

Their souls where declare property of god and it was illegal to enslave them (so they just called them peasants and did the same shit as slaves anyway). Also, majority of them die due to european diseases.

How is that even relevant for mining? Blacks could work more hours as simple as that.Natives were just a large peasant class

WE WUZ MINERS N SHIIIEET
youtube.com/watch?v=QygIji-rGbI

>I was talking about them being phisically weak which is the same even to this day.Natives are really short

>"Among the men, these traits are generally found : some are tall some are short, some are fat some are thin, some are brave some are not, some have an average height and some not, some are handsome and some are not."
- General History of the Things of New Spain, Tenth Book by Friar Bernardino de Sahagun, Sixth Chapter

>"The people of this land are well made, rather tall than short. They are swarthy as leopards, of good manners and gestures, for the greater part very skillful, robust, and tireless, and at the same time the most moderate men known."
-Chronicle of the anonymous conquistador, Third Chapter


>unathletic

>Much of the information available regarding running and runners among the Mexica comes from Spanish accounts of the conquest. Cortés in his letters to the Spanish crown explains that the huey tlahtoani, Motecuhzoma, maintained a corps of fast runners to carry messages from one part of the empire to another. Hernán Cortés claimed that the runners had carried information 260 miles in less than a day.

>The Tarahumara word for themselves, Rarámuri, means "runners on foot" or "those who run fast" in their native tongue according to some early ethnographers like Norwegian Carl Lumholtz, though this interpretation has not been fully agreed upon. With widely dispersed settlements, these people developed a tradition of long-distance running up to 200 miles (320 km) in one session, over a period of two days through their homeland of rough canyon country, for inter-village communication and transportation and hunting.[11]
youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EZxFCWe6E

>weak
pic related

>Black slaves were better for mining or other heavy work.Mostly as they were selected to do that and were simply more phisically fit than natives that are the shortest people in the world
WE tier

fuck off Sup Forums faggot

Blacks were imported to some places simply because Natives got wiped out by diseases and went almost extinct (the Caribbean, Brazil). In Mesoamerica and the Andes they survived simply due to the high amount of Natives there was prior to colonization, so Spaniards didn't import high amount of blacks to Mexico or Peru.

And it were native miners the ones who turned Mexico into the number one silver producer worldwide for centuries. Stop pretending to be an expert, dumb cunt.

>How does building an entire city, larger than London at the time, on top of a lake compare to Blacks mining?

>enslaved by accident
There was little profit in enslaving the natives (it was a lot more difficult since they knew the land and could easily escape and the ones sent to the Caribbean died more often than not). Using african slaves was more profitable (even if they would die by the boatload, the ones that survived the journey would still yield a profit).

Dude Cortes had to sell his conquest.Saying that he fought huge men and that natives were not meme goblins was part of that.You just have to look at the average native height to realise how natives were.All the shortest countries in the world are majority native

Why do you want to get sacrificed so bad?

Get off the proxy

>Blacks mined
>Excuse me muh cities
It is fucking stupid dude.I don't know why it even triggered you in the first place

Yo soy de aqui y siempre he vivido aqui, pinche perro idiota.

Don't give a shit. Show me where I'm wrong.

Can't wait for the election.

>triggered
lmao shut the fuck up

Exercise the shit out of your right to vote

>Dude Cortes had to sell his conquest.Saying that he fought huge men
except he didn't claim that, i cited about 4 sources that actually claim it and none of them is cortes

>You just have to look at the average native height to realise how natives were.
present≠past

>In the late nineteenth century, the Netherlands was a land renowned for its short population, but today its population is among the world's tallest with young men averaging 183.8 cm (6 ft 0.4 in) tall.[51] Data derived from burials show that before 1850, the mean stature of males and females in Leiden, Netherlands was respectively 166.7 cm (5 ft 5.6 in) and 156.7 cm (5 ft 1.7 in). The average height of 19-year-old Dutch orphans in 1865 was 160 cm (5 ft 3 in).[56]

>The effect of environment on height is illustrated by studies performed by anthropologist Barry Bogin and coworkers of Guatemala Mayan children living in the United States. In the early 1970s, when Bogin first visited Guatemala, he observed that Mayan Indian men averaged only 157.5 centimetres (5 ft 2 in) in height and the women averaged 142.2 centimetres (4 ft 8 in). Bogin took another series of measurements after the Guatemalan Civil War, during which up to a million Guatemalans fled to the United States. He discovered that Maya refugees, who ranged from six to twelve years old, were significantly taller than their Guatemalan counterparts.[22] By 2000, the American Maya were 10.24 cm (4.03 in) taller than the Guatemalan Maya of the same age, largely due to better nutrition and health care.[23] Bogin also noted that American Maya children had relatively longer legs, averaging 7.02 cm (2.76 in) longer than the Guatemalan Maya (a significantly lower sitting height ratio).[23][24]

i'm going to watch out for election scam and stay there all 10 hours to see if there's someone trying to fake spoiled ballot papers

imo its the most important election since hitler

>present≠past
Nutrition explains it all.Dutch people just started having a better diet.Colombians are taller than Mexicans while being way poorer and consuming less calories daily.Meaning that their higher height comes mostly their higher % of European and african admixture.Natives were described as weak and fat by most accounts except Cortes as he had to sell the land to colonist and his deeds to the king.If he just said that he BTFO a bunch of manlets that were as weaker as the average Spanish women(which was true btw) his accomplishments would have seen as a joke

lol africans aren't tall. Only black americans are the same height as Europeans. Black-mixed latinos aren't even as tall as black americans.

funny thing is Islamic fundamentalists are going to vote AfD (which is an alt right movement to get muslims out of germany) just cause they're against faggots

who is even talking about you, dumbass

The Aztecs were not all nobility and civilization, there's ample evidence in their own history they did use human sacrifice for political reasons and the flower wars themselves constituted a very sophisticated form of war of attrition, they were human beings with both flaws and virtues and the same goes for the peoples under them, the Tlaxcaltecs turned on the general who sieged Tenochtitlán on a Spanish backed plot which favored the destruction of centralized authority. There was plenty of treachery on all sides.

Likewise the Spaniards were not all bad, what they found in Aztec temples were legit gruesome scenes which matched European ideas regarding satanism, and they did mean to prohibit these practices for the benefit of the population and the salvation of their souls, many of the crimes they comitted I'm sure they told themselves did serve a higher purpose and that they lobbied the king to protect the natives, and that the king and his court themselves forbid slavery, and lobbied the pope to do so through a bull, and set the inquisition with the task of protecting the Amerindians first and foremost, and that for the most part the Spaniards did marry the women they took, and passed their names and estates to their children, all show they were not evil men just seeking to pillage and destroy. Cortés himself tried to spare Tenochtitlán, seems to have been a legitimate friend to Moctezuma, he did take care of his heiress despite her having supported those who rebelled against the Spaniards and showed incredible bravery and intelligence. Yes he was low and overall dishonorable, but again, we are talking human beings, not characters in a movie.

What I'm getting at is Mexicans descend from both and IMHO should fully embrace the legacy of both, replaying the enmity that existed back then is pointless and counterproductive. The Aztecs were a very sophisticated people, it's a diservice to treat them as magical beings out of some fairy tale.

>Natives were described as weak and fat by most accounts except Cortes
Díaz del Castillo, Sahagún, Aguilar, the Anonymous Conquistador, non of them is Cortes. You haven't cited a single source and Cortes doesn't even describe the Indians appearance. Try to find a single primary source that claims they were shorter and fat.

>They … brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks’ bells. They willingly traded everything they owned… . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features….
- Christopher Columbus, first letter to the kings of Spain

>If he just said that he BTFO a bunch of manlets that were as weaker as the average Spanish women(which was true btw) his accomplishments would have seen as a joke
yeah, i've seen your circlejerks in /his/ about the conquistador women and i repeat, cite a primary source that claims they actually participated
and again, by primary source i mean not friars who arrived 60 years after the conquest or the 17th century french nobles who claimed the americas had to be ruled by europeans because americans were so degenerated that men even breast-feed babies

>If he just said that he BTFO a bunch of manlets that were as weaker as the average Spanish women(which was true btw) his accomplishments would have seen as a joke
fucking americans i swear

>Arriving from Cuba Narváez was named governor of Mexico by Velázquez who sent him and 1400 men on 19 ships to México to intercept Cortés.[7] When the news of Narváez's arrival reached Cortés, the latter gathered a contingent of his troops, perhaps as few as 250 men, and returned to the coast. On May 27, 1520, Cortés men moved in on Narváez's camp at Cempoala under the cover of a driving rain, and quickly took control of the artillery and horses before entering the city. Narváez took a stand at the main temple of the city of Cempoala with a contingent of muskteers and crossbowmen. Finally Gonzalo de Sandoval arrived with reinforcements to Cortés who managed to set the main temple on fire, driving out Narváez and his men. Narváez was sorely wounded, having lost an eye in the fighting. He was taken prisoner and spent two years as a prisoner at the garrison of Veracruz before he was sent back to Spain. His men, who had been promised gold by Cortés, joined the conquistadors and returned to Tenochtitlan where they participated in the conquest of the Aztec empire.[8]

Do you also defend wife beaters? I mean they're just doing cause they love them.

Fucking kill yourself.

Nunca falta el que escribe 5 párrafos por post

Why do you care you stupid Colombian? This has nothing to do with you

Ah yes, the stupid colombian being stupid as always because he is colombian

Why better no going to fuck a donkey?

because youre talking to a nativist we wuz kangz type of person, possibly a leftist, so if you talk shit about abos and how theyve done absolutely nothing useful in 30k years, hes gonna get pissed

spaincucks are disgusting
for fucks sake what a bunch of filthy demonic fagots lmao
well, at least history was made right... they had their influenza epidemic and civil war, and got raped by americans. wew karma is a bitch

>Countries like Germany and Sweden don't deserve the shit they're getting nowadays but Spain unironically does and a thousand times more.

Really makes you think

kek, nice histrionics for a biggot

??

What I'm really interested in, after asking it for a hundred times and getting impartial answers, is: Do they offer voluntary courses for Meso-American languages throughout your education in Latin America? Anyone here ever took a course in these languages? Anyone here, from Latin America, remotely interested in these languages?

They don't in Mexico but indigenous people can get schooled in their local languages if they want to (and if they have the funds to set up a school).

this pretty much , while there way too many dialects, 99.3% speaks Spanish so... the government is more interested in kids learning English or something else over some native dialect

Mexico population is 120 million people btw

That's wrong. The epidemics had fucking them up for 2 centuries with a death rate of 60-80%. Add to that the fact that those criollos throwed them to toxic mines full of mercury and fucked up the agricultural system provoking famines and shit.

Africans suffered the same, except they didn't have the disease problem to fuck them up.

Portugal nao fez nada de errado!!

I agree. Just as the native americans. They where subhuman cannibals, lazy and unintelligent.

>It has also been suggested that the Spanish conquest of Mesoamerica influenced the history of the botanical garden[14] as gardens in Tenochtitlan established by king Nezahualcoyotl,[18] also gardens in Chalco (altépetl) and elsewhere, greatly impressed the Spanish invaders, not only with their appearance, but also because the indigenous Aztecs employed many more medicinal plants than did the classical world of Europe.[19][20] Hernando Cortés reportedly told the Spanish monarch that the Aztec physicians were superior to those in Spain, so superior, in fact, that the king need not bother sending Spanish physicians to the New World. Statement later confirmed in a early letter by the personal physian of the Spanish monarch who spent 7 years studying the Aztec medicine in a research trip that was expected to last 6 months: ‘"I marveled, in this and in innumerable other herbs, which are nameless among us, how in the Indies, where people are so uncultured and barbaric, there are so many herbs, some with known uses and some without, but there is almost none, which is not known to them and given a particular name".

>their estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation as to the length of the tropical solar year was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived

>The Aztec Triple Alliance, which ruled from 1428 to 1521 in what is now central Mexico, is considered to be the first state to implement a system of universal compulsory education.[4][5]

>According to the Guinness Book of Records, Cholula is in fact the largest pyramid as well as the largest monument ever constructed anywhere in the world, with a total volume estimated at over 4.45 million cubic metres, even larger than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, which is about 2.5 million cubic metres.

>Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés arrived in Tenochtitlan on November 8, 1519. With an estimated population between 200,000 and 300,000, many scholars believe Tenochtitlan to have been among the largest cities in the world at that time.[14] Compared to Europe, only Paris, Venice and Constantinople might have rivaled it. It was five times the size of the London of Henry VIII.[6]

>"Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand."
Bernal díaz del Castillo, True History of the Conquest of New Spain Chapter LXXXVII

>"Moctezuma possessed out of the city as well as within, numerous villas, each of which had its peculiar sources of amusement, and all were constructed in the best possible manner for the use of a great prince and lord. Within the city his palaces were so wonderful that it is hardly possible to describe their beauty and extent; I can only say that in Spain there is nothing equal to them."
- Hernan Cortes, Second Letter of Relation to Charles V

>enslaving Africans became more profitable
*purchasing slaves from Africans who had enslaved other Africans in tribal conflicts

>Do they offer voluntary courses for Meso-American languages throughout your education in Latin America?
Some institutions, like INAH or UNAM offer them for the most spoken ones, like Maya, Nahuatl and even Otomi, and others basic courses even appear temporarily. Otherwise, as user pointed out the teaching is mainly local Also, it's not for all Latin America. I've never seen courses in Andean languages here and I assume is the same for the Andean region with Mesoamerican languages.

>Anyone here, from Latin America, remotely interested in these languages?
Absolutely. Couldn't sign up for Nahuatl this semester, so I preferred to get done with Russian and German first.