Daily Japanese Thread - DJT #1911

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
djtguide.neocities.org/

Discuss the process of learning Japanese.

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strawpoll.me/14043083
dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/38482/meaning/m0u/
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How many languages do you know, user? By knowing I mean being able to watch the news, picking up a newspaper and reading it or watching movies in said language.

strawpoll.me/14043083

神様は私に死んで欲がっているようだ

;______;

otu

dostedt

疲れた

合成界面活性剤

is this the power of advanced autism?

How do I get a cute Japanese gf?

その言葉英語でも分からない

というかオランダ語も分からない

そもそも日本語でもよくわからない。

彼女を見つけたいなら真っ先四つ葉を通う男がいてはいけない。頑張ってね!

>a week since i started living in japan
>have a comfortable amount of moneey but afraid im gonna blow it all on the amazing food

HELP

Don't worry, you'll get sick of it after a week or two-three.

塩鮭 is cheap, filling and tasty. Vegetables and rice/noodles can also be sourced cheaply.

『ここをれいみゅとまりしゃの』
『ゆっきゅりすれっどにするのじぇ!』

にっぽんにきたおそとにんげんさんだね?タックさんのおかねさんでれーみゅにたっくさんのあまあまをくれりゅんだね?すぐでいいよっ!

まりちゃをかいゆっくりにしゅればとってもゆっきゅりできりゅのじぇ?に、さんしゅうかんといわずずっとかわれてあげても、いいのじぇ?

しおざけっさんはゆっくりできるね!でもおのどさんもかわくからジュースさんもたっくさんちょうだいね!すぐでいいよっ!

...

I was actually told to kill yukkuri so uh yeah

yukkuri shinde ne

げひんなおかおのすべたさんっなのじぇ?
まああまあまをおそらまでつみあげておねがいするなら、まりしゃのあなるさんをぺーろぺーろさせてあげてもいいのじぇ?
どいつにんげんさんはぼんやりしてないであまあまをもってくるのじぇ!すぐでいいのじぇ!

じじいがほざいてるのじぇ!
まりしゃをおこらせて、あとでゆるしをこうてもおそいのじぇ!いまひれふしてじひをこうのじぇ!

no idea :(

>no idea :(

What font do you use for your cards, anons? After using Arial for so long, Meiryo seems so strange and ugly to me.

Do you guys also handwrite them to learn stroke order?

fuck stroke order

...

Oh my...

どうした

Why waste your time with that. As long as you can recognize it it's fine.

It's not like I'll ever need to write japanese by hand.
And it's a lot simpler to learn afterwards if you really want to know it, take some caligraphy lessons or something fun.

I waste my time writing stuff because I learn things faster when I'm writing them down.

I doubt you actually do. Have you measured it?

I personally feel that i'ts important to be able to handwrite an language like it is integral to it.
But that's just me...

Yes and no. It's just something I noticed back in highschool and college. My friends reported similar experiences, too.
I guess it's because, when you write something down, you have to think about that something, then write it down and then make sure that you've written it correctly, so you're thinking about that thing 2-3 times instead of just one time.

Yeah but consider this.

Lets say for the sake of simplicity you have 1 Hour a day you can spend on learning japanese.
Now you can spend 20 minutes doing SRS without handwriting and the rest reading.
or
you partice handwriting and your SRS time increases to 40 minutes for the same amount of new cards learned. Leaving only 20 minutes for reading.

I'll probably pick up handwriting too, but only after I've graduated and got more time and reached a higher level of japanese.

I thought writting helped me remembering things too, then I learned I was a bazilion times slower than the rest who didn't.
There is some truth to it. Being able to recall something and put it into words is better than just quietly trying to recall in your mind, but it's stupidly slow.
What's just as good and faster is actually speaking out loud. Whenever I need to study I don't find a quiet place, I find a place I talk out load without bothering anyone.

Whats the best vending machine drink?

Seconded. Mechanic memory is different from whatever do pattern-recognition. I write kanji on app in commute and memorise times more then by flashcards.

You learn better when it's coupled with a physical activity. Writing out words (or saying them out loud) will make you remember them better than just thinking about them, because it's attached to a physical sensation.

>Been learning a year and a half
>Keep having mind blanks and forgetting how to write particular hiragana during lessons with my tutor

恥ずかしい!

As I said before it's more of a personal thing.
Yes it has slowed my learning process a lot but without learning the handwriting it would feel like having an automated car: Yes you can drive it normally but if you had to drive an old car you would have problems with switching the gears.

And after a year and a half.

Can you read manga?

Websites?

Watch Raw Anime?

What can I expect a year from now?

I don't like saying them out loud because I might be butchering their pronunciation.

Years are irrelevant, it's the daily and weekly efforts that count. What one person will accomplish in three years, another will accomplish in half a year.

But realistically, a year from now you should probably expect being much better than now but still quite a ways from fluency. You'll probably be able to read most manga, if not entirely smoothly and with full comprehension, but depending on where you've focused your studies raw anime is likely to still be quite tricky since listening comprehension is a whole different beast from reading.

just write how it seems the most efficient to you, most of the time it matches the stroke order anyway
and if it doesn't, why should I on purpose write more inconveniently just because of some arbitrary rule

if you use the proper stroke order, even when writing very quickly, you can still make out the character despite it being chicken scratch

the "flow of the strokes" is pretty important in that case

In cursive. But in japanese written with a pen I doubt you'll be able to tell if it waswritten with wrong stroke order.

わたしは ばかだったでもばかじゃない!

You really think Japanese somehow doesn't have scribbled or semi cursive writing either? Forget the actual cursive stuff, I'm talking about messy scribbles you'll probably encounter in manga even.

I never said that.

After a year and a half...

>Can read easier manga like Yotsubato quite quickly
>Know majority of grammar for forming sentences about non-complex subjects
>Always hard to measure vocabulary but feel confident about discussing everyday things like transport, food, family, school, work, technology etc.
>Recognize meanings for 1750 individual kanji
>Know enough to pass JLPT5 relatively easily, possibly passing JLPT4 too but I'll know come Winter

It's important to know that I was primarily learning it for a holiday which meant I was using bad study methods for the first nine months, didn't study vocabulary separately until after the first year nor was I trying to read everyday, was going to rather unhelpful evening classes and relied on machine translation too much.

So really it's been about six months with a year's foundation of exposure to basic concepts, grammar, speaking and vocab behind it. Take that as you will.

お誕生日おめでとう、4チャン!

After barely more than a year (maybe 14 months) I'm reading a light novel at a decent pace with relative ease. I'm also preparing to take the N2 in December, which I believe I'll pass assuming I can get my reading speed up enough between now and the test, which assuming I'm able to stick to my goal of reading an hour every day.

Did you take the N3? If so, how did you study for it?

Is he /our guy/?

I had planned to take the N3 this December, but I ended up making quicker progress than I expected, which is why I'll be taking the N2 now. The best advice I can give you is to know your vocab pretty well.

no hes a divisive sjw marxist

Just found out my name directly translates into Chinese "明哲".
I searched for it in Japanese and it returned "Meitetsu" and has the same meaning.
What I want to ask is that can "Meitetsu" be used as a person's name in Japan, or it is just a generic noun? Thank you for your time.

>良い
>有る
Do people ever actually use these in practice, or is it way more common to just spell it out in hiragana?

明哲 feels natural as a Japanese male name. Maybe read as Akisato or Akitesu. As a general noun it seems 明哲 is an old word so I've never seen it before.

Makes you sound pretentious, I think. Kinda like insisting on using old-fashioned spelling and grammar in English, dost thou understand?

Asking here because /jp/ doesn't actually learn Japanese. I'm around 1500 cards into a vocab deck, kanji retention is not great but slowly improving, and I'm bored out of my mind trying to read grammar textbooks. How do I move forward from here? I was thinking about loading some LNs onto my paperwhite and using the built in dictionary to help with unknown words but I'm not sure if this would actually be beneficial without a strong grammar foundation.

Ask /jp/, we don't actually learn Japanese here

有る can be found in novels. 良い is more common.

Have you read yotsuba yet?

You dont want to learn japanese anyway, so why bother? Might as well just quit now and dont waste some months of your life.

Human beings learn grammar through exposure to the actual language, not reading about it in a textbook.

Best way to find out is to give it a shot and see how you do. There's no avoiding grammar, it's the most important part of the language and at least a decent grasp of it is required to get anything done, but at the same time you should start dipping your toes into reading real material sooner rather than later. You're not gonna have every grammar point memorized no matter what.

That said "1500 cards into a vocab deck" is quite late to be wondering about something like that, you should've already gotten past active studying of grammar textbooks.

I guess I'm not really sure how I should be studying grammar books to begin with. Also /jp/ really did a number on me with their Anki meme. All I know are flashcards.

1. Read the "Dictionary Of Basic Japanese Grammar". Don't study it, just read it (thoroughly).
2. Start with "Japanese Short Stories For Beginners".
3. Proceed to Yotsuba&

That should keep you busy for the next month or so, at least.

>sonna kanji when kanojo ga nai

;_;

>1. Read the "Dictionary Of Basic Japanese Grammar". Don't study it, just read it (thoroughly).

そんな感じいつ彼女がない

So am I reading DoJG mainly to know where to look stuff up later?

what's wrong nigga

here's the thing tho, if you ever need to write anything in real life chances are you won't be using a brush

Yes, there's no point in studying every entry individually. Like said, it's exposure, not study, that actually makes you learn you a language. Just like you can't learn how to ride a bike or swim just from reading a book. You just have to do it, terrible and slow at first, and gradually "getting the hang of it".

I learned too many words for thigh (もも) and for crotch (また), and now I keep mixing them up.

wat do

Hi, beginner here, just starting out with the grammar guides.

I've read a few chapters of imabi after having read a few of Tae Kim's guide. Up to now, imabi doesn't seem as complicated as people make it up to be, plus everyone says it's more accurate and after comparing some of the explanations it seem that it's true. I also have a large amount of time and i'm not at all impatient, I can wait for a year or so to start reading as comfortably as can. The thing is I'm still a beginner and I've never really taken this grammar-guide approach when learning a language before, should I still pull through with imabi? Or is Tae Kim's guide actually better for me? I've also considered genki but to me it seems like it's a pain in the ass and has many things I can work out with the anki decks or other methods.

tl;dr, tae kim, imabi or genki?

彼はあぐらをかいてしゃべっていますね。
He is talking while sitting cross-legged.

What verb is かいて here?

Learning grammar is not like going up steps on a stair, it's more like folding your katana a billion times.

Read a guide, learn it superficially, then read some manga or whatever. You will spot a lot of what you learned, but you still won't get everything and even stuff you thought you'd learned will seem fogy.

After you've read a bit, go back to grammar guides and read a few more lessons. Even reread stuff you already have in the past: everything that you didn't learn well in the first pass will now make sense, because you've seen it here and there in your LNs.

And you keep doing this back and forth movement, turning your katana into a messy folded piece of metal, just to hammer it down again in the correct shape. Every time you fold it, it will look nothing like a katana, you will feel like you haven't made much progress, but it's part of the process.

Bottom line is: all the guides are good. Pick the one that speaks to you the most, if you're not having trouble with Imabi, great. If you feel like you should give Tae Kim a try, maybe you can leave it for later, when you'll have some mango mileage but want to refer to some grammar guides and see if you're really getting Japanese.

Thanks man, I'll start reading some manga when I've made some progress with imabi then. Nice analogy btw.

胡座をかく
It's a fixed expression.

I see, so it's probably 描く, "drawing" the shape of a cross with one's legs.

Read more manga and you will notice than mangaka do whatever the fuck they want, meaning you'll see things like 有る、良い、折角、程、居る、或いは、何故、何処、etc. fairly often.

was reading something the other day and saw 勿論 for the 'first' time
spooked me good

Dictionary says that it was originally 掛く

dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/38482/meaning/m0u/

No one actually uses that in modern Japanese though. It doesn't even appear in Aozora Bunko (although some books use it with 搔く).

そっか!
Initially I thought it would be something related to 掛ける but that obsolete ku form threw me off. Arigatee.

So I decided to take a month off from studying Japanese and I'm really starting to bite from not studying. I'm trying to read this VN and the Japanese words / syllables aren't really connecting with me as much when I took a break. Is this a common problem for people like me and what should I do to fix it?

目尻 - めじり:
「outer canthus / outer corner of the eye.」
>目尻が上がっている。
>Have ⌐almond [slant(ing)] eyes; be slant-eyed.

失礼な

How did you all learn kanji? I'm working through an N5 deck on memrise and 300 cards in my retention is only ~20%. How the fuck am I supposed to remember 洗濯 is せんたく? Is RTK the way to go? Do I just need to brute force this more and be sure to review every day? How did you all do it?

Jisho lists one of the definitions of 取り上げる as "to deliver (child" while rikaisama lists it as to adopt (child). Which is it? Neither? Both? I've long since forgotten the context where I got this word from.

Well, first of all, 洗 has 先 on the right, and せん is the onyomi of that kanji so that is pretty easy. In case you didn't know, one of the radicals or component kanji (or whatever the fuck you call something that is sort of a radical but is an entire kanji) will sometimes tell you the reading, they have a word for this concept, but I forget what it is.

Then just fucking remember たく

Thank you. When I was in Japan I used "トリト" which is converted from my name's pronunciation. Since it's not Japanese it's kinda awkward so I wanted to find some alternatives.

In my 国語辞典, it says 出産の手助けをする.

その彼女がいないときの感じ

Wow, what a translation!

洗 = semantic氵+ phonetic 先 ("something to do with water, sounds like sen"). or just try to imagine a woman on her knees at the river, doing the laundry by hand (pic related).

濯 = just imagine a clothes hamper and clothes pins on top, to dry the water off, always sounds like "taku"

洗濯 = sentaku

so yes, brute force, by doing your reps. 10 a day, and a full repetition over the weekend. (You can do ~ 400 words an hour then)

No point in blaming the tools. And nothing's stopping you from putting grammar points into flashcards, e.g. "Past tense verb + ばかり" in the front and the explanation in the back. That's what I did when I was going through grammar books and it helped me a lot. I think I accumulated ~200 grammar cards or so over time.

You can also try different grammar books, for me Japanese the Manga Way was especially useful in helping with stuff I was having trouble with. It turns out that whether you understand something or not is often just a matter of how it's presented and explained.

>Also /jp/ really did a number on me
There are a couple of trolls who spend hundreds of posts every single thread trying to fuck with learners. The anti-Anki meme is merely the latest thing the troll/s are using to shit up the threads.

Meido has given up babysitting the thread to delete that sort of crap, so now it runs rampart.

『ここをれいみゅとまりしゃの』
『ゆっきゅりぷれいしゅにしゅるのじぇ!』

>>From now on, this thread will be Marisa and Ryeimu' easy place!!
>>Take it easy!!