Hold up. I'm not here to troll or bait, but I am legitimately confused. I have some decent knowledge of comic heroes and stuff, but I don't get this. Batman is just a man, a man with money and training, yes, but a man. Superman is literally a god in human eyes. How is this even a challenge? Superman can turn time forwards or back, fly faster than supersonic speeds, lift trillions of tons, has x-ray and laser vision, can read thoughts or hear things from across the world and is invincible. I don't get it. This is stupid. Batman is cool, yeah, but how is this a match-up by any means? Batman fights human enemies, Superman fights aliens and world enders.
Is this Superman somehow super gimped or nerfed? Even in the movies where he's portrayed as "A lot weaker", he has still done amazing, incredible feats.
That's fine, but should I hold some form of suspension of disbelief to watch it?
Sebastian Cooper
Superman didn't want to kill Batman or hurt him at first. So it wasn't until Batman started to blatantly attack him he got upset. Then Batman threw kryptonite gas which weakens Supermans powers to a level which Batman can hurt Superman.
If Superman wanted to get rid of Batman he would have just punched his head off.
Carter Sanders
I guess that makes sense, but Supes can read minds and has x-ray. Couldn't he have easily seen the gas, or Batman's plans? Hell, he could just hover at 40 feet and be invincible, no?
Caleb Sullivan
Should I hold suspension of disbelief when watching a movie about a billionaire who dresses up as a bat vs humanoid alien who can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes?
Really makes you think
Brayden Hill
You should read some interviews with the writers.
“It’s almost archetypal. In Batman’s origin [the murder of his parents], the primary thing I was thinking about is the fact he falls. It’s the primary metaphor for Western literature: There was a moment before and then everything fell. That brings up questions of Superman.
“I began to think Batman and Superman occupy different parts of the mythic imagination. In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky. That began to be really interesting to me—that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence. In the end, there’s a common humanity which I think is discovered at a certain moment in the film.”
>I have written “Justice League Part One,” but I won’t necessarily write “Part Two.” This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life. For “Batman v Superman,” I wanted to really dig into everything from ideas about American power to the structure of revenge tragedies to the huge canon of DC Comics to Amazon mythology. For “Justice League,” I could be reading in the same day about red- and blueshifts in physics, Diodorus of Sicily and his account of the war between Amazons and Atlanteans, or deep-sea biology and what kind of life plausibly might be in the Mariana Trench.
>If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would say you were crazy. But I do think fans deserve that. I felt I owed the fan base all of my body and soul for two years because anything less wouldn’t have been appreciating the opportunity I had.
You have to understand that Superman has no intention or desire to kill Batman. His humanity puts him at disadvantage.
Do you even know what kryptonite is? Holy fucking shit, do kids these days even know what comic books are?
Levi Garcia
>Supes can read minds
He can not, user.
Aiden Ward
>>I have written “Justice League Part One,” but I won’t necessarily write “Part Two.” This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life. For “Batman v Superman,” I wanted to really dig into everything from ideas about American power to the structure of revenge tragedies to the huge canon of DC Comics to Amazon mythology. For “Justice League,” I could be reading in the same day about red- and blueshifts in physics, Diodorus of Sicily and his account of the war between Amazons and Atlanteans, or deep-sea biology and what kind of life plausibly might be in the Mariana Trench.
>>If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would say you were crazy. But I do think fans deserve that. I felt I owed the fan base all of my body and soul for two years because anything less wouldn’t have been appreciating the opportunity I had.
Is this real? Sounds like they really put a lot of effort into it, shame all the nerds at Sup Forums flipped out because they are man children.
Brandon Harris
You dumb fucks simply can't get over the fact people enjoyed this movie. Look how hard you're all still trying.
Thomas Cox
>Supes can read minds
That's retarded, what a retarded concept
Josiah Ward
Yes it's real. Chris Terrio is real as fuck. They put an incredible amount of energy and talent into the script. And now, they probably feel like that all that work was in vain when critics were seemingly confused by the most simple of character traits. Or they just really enjoy what they're doing and ignore what dumb critics are saying.
Jack Nguyen
Marvel shills can't let go. Snyder and Terrio has made them real afraid with this one. And they'll be back with more.
Asher Torres
Hes no doubt used his xray vision at least once to read a person's mind.
But DC has always had horrible writing and horrendous power-creep.
Kayden Ramirez
>Is this real? Sounds like they really put a lot of effort into it
They did. This isn't your average capeshit fest. It's actually an amazing work of art, and nothing is coincidence. Manbabies and numales won't like it.
Lincoln Walker
Then whats the deal with these adult children watching it?
Jeremiah Davis
The main difference between DC and Marvel displayed right there.
Hudson Ross
desu, only critic that matters is Armond. Do you have the link to the interview. David Goyer doesn't get enough credit. I'm pretty sure he was alone in writing Man of Steel, wonder how much he contributed to BvS.
Yeah, it's really on a whole other level for a Superhero film, and I think they really did a good job elevating it. He's not wrong in comparing them to Greek Gods, but this is the first time where such a comparison is appropriate.
Levi Reed
stop watching movies or low IQ and watch real film OP
Ryder Bell
The review that forever blew the nu-male critics the fuck up.
OP should read this. Armond has a good understanding of the film and why there is a conflict between Superman and Batman and why it isn't as simple as a match of raw strength.
Jonathan Watson
It's just like in the MCU - the "Supers" have their powers toned down quite substantially because what works in comics often does not work well on screen. That's also the reason Raimi gave Spiderman organic webshooters instead of mechanical ones.
Leo Allen
Superman could easily kill Batman if he wanted to but he generally isn't a killer unless his life is in danger or a shit ton of people. Batman is the worlds greates detective and has a shit ton of monetary resources. Batman is much smarter than Superman and a better strategist. Superman underestimates Batman's ability and Batman is able to capitalize on the smallest of openings that Superman gives him by not outright killing Batman.
Instead of asking, why don't you spend a little time thinking about it and answer your own question
Jaxon Wilson
>those trips >that post 9/11 pain >(All three characterization performances are, well, perfect.)
How does Armond do it
Robert Thomas
>adult children you just answered your own question
Jackson Peterson
>this is what DCucks actually believe
Alexander Martin
>Global Rule 6: The quality of posts is extremely important to this community. Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images and informative comments.
Easton Miller
A mod should delete this thread and ban all capeshit discussion then, my booty blasted DCasual friend.
Adrian Wood
I think fanboys are upset because it was a half-assed attempt to launch a cinematic universe/set up a Justice League movie. Batman Begins and TDK did a good job of having underlying themes, Batman vs Superman was more like the Schumacher Batman films except Snyder substituted the camp with try hard social commentary
Alexander Green
It's impossible for anyone who posts this to be smarter than Armond White, see he invalidates any "capeshit is for children" it can't "handle adult themes" posts.
Jacob Hernandez
...
Andrew Gray
when Sup Forums stops being mean to casual Sup Forumsedditors then they'll do it
Luis Reyes
It wasn't half-assed and no matter how hard you try to push that, truth will be that Marvel will forever be more lazy and soulless in comparison.
Colton Cook
Is this how race swapping a character should be done? It was a minor detail that didn't effect the story, and they never made it a political talking point. Laurence Fishburne is goat too, so that was good anyways.
Ryan Mitchell
Forgot pic
Luke Lee
Captain America by himself is more developed than the entire DC cinematic universe combined, even Thor is more interesting than the any charecter in the DC univerese, and he's the Janetty of The Avengers
Evan Perry
>tfw re-watched the extended edition with my wife who initially didn't like the movie because she "didn't get it" dumb bitch thought this Batman was Christopher Nolan's batman but after watching it with me now loves it.
Nolan Nguyen
Why would you marry a dumb bitch?
Tyler Scott
you shouldn't call your waifu a dumb bitch, but she is a pleb, the theatrical cut is better.
Brody Murphy
He's not comic Superman, he's a more grounded Snyderman. Plus he said he didn't wanna kill Batman, and if did, Batman would be dead already. Batman's intent was to kill Snyderman.
Austin Perry
When the Marvel shill gets so desperate he ends up ousting himself the Paki shill.
Elijah Morris
>Director Zack Snyder states, “We felt an interesting way of beginning this story was to examine Superman from another perspective, Batman’s perspective. Bruce doesn’t know who Superman is; all he knows is what the public knows. He blames him for the lives lost in Metropolis, lives that he felt responsible for. His hatred has been building up inside, and now, all this time later, he’s finding reinforcement of those feelings in the media.”
>“When we find Superman, he’s been dealing with everyday life as a Super Hero, but there’s a distinct shift happening in how his heroic efforts are viewed, thanks to the unintended consequences of those acts,” Snyder continues. “Every action has a reaction; one guy’s rescue leaves another in distress. We wanted to explore the reality of saving people and what intervening can really mean. The classic idea with Superman is that he’s a good guy trying to do the right thing and that he isn’t political, but in truth, in today’s world, it’s impossible not to be, no matter your intentions.”
>“I think the story really sets the stage nicely for understanding why Batman wants to fight Superman,” he says. “It’s logical to assume that they’d be friends since they’re both good guys, but this film takes a more nuanced view of how these characters might exist in the real world and what sort of complications might come about as a result of their abilities and actions.”
>he's a more grounded Snyderman >Snyderman
Kek
Owen Powell
>the plot demanded it
It was a stupid waste of time. Both characters acted incredibly dumb throughout the entire movie and it made a fight that should have lasted 5 seconds last around 15 minutes.
Jace Kelly
Batman had prep time
Nathaniel Foster
in the dcu there's something to aspire and strive to, you can become godlike just by training yourself up (Bruce Wayne, Lex Luthor, Oliver Queen, Lady Shiva,... ...) in the mcu, everything is superpowers, magic, magic tech and quips
but for nu-males, this is just too complex of a concept
Nolan Hernandez
>he only watched the movie version
Pleb
Kayden Johnson
the justice league:
greek goddess Kryptonite god superhuman cyborg sea god man with superhuman speed rich guy in a fancy suit with grappling hook
something wrong here
Jack Sanders
>“When I was a kid, I was a fan of the character, particularly Frank Miller’s Dark Knight,” Affleck states. “While ours isn’t the same story, what interested me about playing our version of him was that, on one hand, he was very much in keeping with the Batman we recognize, but he had evolved into a bit older, more world-weary slugger nearing the end of his tether, and that was really intriguing to me. Superman’s actions cause a rage in Bruce Wayne that is almost irrational, and that desperate anger and hatred was a fascinating place to build from.”
>“Superman is beginning to face the exact challenges Jonathan Kent was worried about,” observes Henry Cavill, who reprises his dual roles as Clark Kent and the Man of Steel. “The world is filled with fear after being attacked by aliens and literally shaken to its very core. Despite having what they look to as a redeemer, the people need to direct their fear at something. In the meantime, Superman is still trying to do right by everyone and ignore the slings and arrows.”
>Like Affleck, Cavill is conscious of the worldwide affection for his character and the responsibility that goes along with it. “Superman genuinely matters to a lot of people,” he states. “The more people I’ve met since playing him, the more I’ve realized that the decisions we make in telling his story now and in the future must take into consideration their care and love for the character.”
Nicholas Ward
>goddess >a woman
We're saving mankind, not fighting the patriarch here.
Its fine. Have to remember Batman is there to remind them they're not gods.
Robert Mitchell
Marveltard desperately tries to shit up the the thread by ignoring all the sources from Terrio and Snyder explaining why. Very typical behavior from Marvel shill squad. Good read.
Oliver Murphy
>“I think that these characters and stories are not only highly entertaining, but they provide a terrific example of what to do or not do, how to behave or not behave, and enable us to compare ourselves and our actions against them,” Cavill continues. “In the last film, the world was attacked by aliens and nearly destroyed. That event thrust Superman into the public eye, and since then he’s continued to try to do the right thing and get a closer connection to humanity, but he’s left questioning whether humans really want his help or not.”
Brayden Richardson
Because Kryptonite. And anytime Batman and Superman have fought Superman never really wanted to. Even in this shit film he tries to talk to Batman first and goes easy on him until Batman cracks out the Kryptonite
Jose Williams
Batman wants to fight and Superman doesn't.
Ryan Sullivan
>Couldn't he have easily seen the gas
Movie Superman doesn't know what Kryptonite is
Jeremiah Bell
People are just too stupid to objectively watch films without pre-determined notions.
Most people who didn't enjoy it went into the movie not enjoying it.
Anthony Diaz
>Batman is there to remind them they're not gods.
Since he has the biggest ego out of all of them that's a bad idea. They need Green Arrow for that
Hunter Wilson
>Batman creates full sense of security >Superman sees no reason to dodge or fear anything he does and decides to talk instead >Batman surprises the Man of Steel with weapon he's never seen again
And every subsequent hit after that Supes was still weakened by earlier blasts of Kryptonite hence not able to dodge.
James Torres
Yeah, the whole article is interesting, and it has quotes from the actors and the screenwriters on the characters.
It's where I found the quote from Armond's article.
I think this applies to the discussion.
>Screenwriter David S. Goyer notes, “Super Hero movies tend to happen in a vacuum—epic damage happens and everyone just sort of goes back to what they were doing. In our view, it would really scar not just the city or the nation, but the world. It wasn’t intentional on Superman’s part, but a lot of people became fearful afterwards, and that’s the impetus that causes Bruce to become suspicious of him. Lex uses that wedge issue, that nascent mistrust brewing in the general public, to foment that.”
>Similarly, to carry Lex Luthor into 2016, Terrio recalls asking himself, “What would a capitalist gone mad look like today?” Looking for real-world inspiration from many of the world’s largest high-tech corporations, he found an environment that “often cultivates eccentricity as a virtue and rewards outside-the-box innovation.” Adding those qualities to a damaged psyche, he re-imagined Lex as “a younger, brilliant, post-modern villain aware of his own villainy who has chosen to use his wealth and power to bring down one whose own power appears limitless.”
Nicholas Gray
>Why is Batman running toward the destruction
Oh yeah. That's a legitimate complaint
Isaac Nelson
>“When we started talking about what would be Superman’s challenge for this next movie, we knew we couldn’t find bigger physical stakes than the destruction of the Earth,” Zack Snyder says, “so we had to make the emotional stakes higher. And who is a more worthy foil for a philosophical war than Batman? Once you say that out loud, it’s hard to go back.”
>“It’s no secret that Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns is my favorite comic book and contains what I would consider the coolest Batman/Superman philosophical confrontation,” Snyder says.
>With all the elements of the film in place, Zack Snyder finds, “The thing I’m most excited about is that we get an opportunity with ‘Batman v Superman’ to take the biggest icons in comic book history and bring them together on the big screen in a single, coherent world where each of their back stories and different adventures can now create a tapestry within the richness of the DC universe. When you say Batman, when you say Superman, when you say Wonder Woman, these are names people know and love. To see them now getting a chance to interact and have their adventures intertwined, well…that’s just an incredible thing that I think everyone is going to be super psyched to see.”
>I think everyone is going to be super psyched to see
Oh Zack, how the plebs have turned against you. Do we deserve such kino?
Jaxson Evans
>editing is bad
Can this be expanded more than just "bad editing" I wasn't confused at all throughout the whole film.
Owen Powell
>Superman vs. Batman >Superman doesn't want to fight. Just want to explain everything >could have easily just grabbed Batman and constrained all his movements and told him everything >throws him around for no reason instead not trying to explain anything >could have easily killed Batman or knocked him out in seconds >decides not to and gets hit with krytonite shit >even after recovering from the first shell and realizing his life is actually in danger he continues to just throw Batman around until he gets hit with the 2nd one
They made Superman a literal retard and if he ever does anything intelligent it goes against everything set in BvS
Kevin Campbell
So you're complaining that Superman didn't just outright kill Batman?
Right...
Tyler Cruz
He wanted to show to Batman that his posturing was childish because Superman could have killed him if he so wanted, so the fact he isn't trying is proof enough that Superman ins't interested in fighting him.
That's why Superman pushed him after the initial attacks from Batman and told him if he wanted he could be dead. Sure, Superman was acting a bit macho, but isn't that expected from a dude who's having issues with another dude? For both of them to act a bit macho?
Dominic Flores
Can we just end plebs. I mean just really, just make it illegal for them to watch movies, or illegal to talk about them.
Josiah Wood
scenes that go on for too long, scenes that needed to be longer, very little sense of continuity between scenes, pointless scenes,
Jaxon Turner
He needed to let Batman feel like he could defeat him in a fight to get his point across. God this board is fucking pleb
Robert Reed
better way to accomplish that: Hold batman in place by his ridiculous suit with two fingers.
Henry Carter
I didn't get that. If you compare the extended cut with the theatrical cut, you can tell they cut a lot of pointless stuff. Continuity was fine, as well as scene length in my opinion.
Oliver Cruz
Literal headcanon.
Angel Nelson
That's pretty gay thing to do, though.
Henry Garcia
So you have shit taste. That's nice.
For people who didn't spend the entire movie looking at their phones or playing video games, the movie was absolutely insufferable.
Mason Ross
See
Asher Gomez
So rule of kewl governed the entire production.
Hunter Gutierrez
Not even an argument concerning editing.
Austin Long
>Look, I love what Zack Snyder does. Jesse Eisenberg, this little Yiddish guy, as Lex Luthor? For me, that’s a genius move. >Jesse Eisenberg, this little Yiddishy guy >this little Yiddishy guy >Yiddishy >Yiddish
Laurence Fishburne has got some balls to say that. I guess since he's black it's ok.
Cameron Ward
armond white is a contrarian with a thesaurus
blowing him isn't getting you out of your cuck shed
Isaac Lee
the ability to distract yourself while a movie slogs along is most certainly an argument concerning editing.
Jeremiah Campbell
The amount of newshits that picked him up because of this and not all the years of work saving cinema before is disgusting we really need /film/ thats free from this Sup Forums and Sup Forums parasite
Asher Johnson
No. Superman wouldn't want to bearhug Batman, a guy that hates his guts, just so he can have a chance to whisper on his ears everything he needs to tell him. He'd find that gay as shit and Batman not worthy of the effort.
So after being attacked, he decided what Batman really needed was a show of force to put him a peg down or two, thinking that once Batman realized he has no chance of winning and is only allowed to breath because he wishes so, that Batman would calm the fuck down like the bitch ass nigga he really is.
Owen Campbell
are you confusing snyder's superman with some other iteration of the character?
This superman spent most of the movie whining and moping.
Samuel Sullivan
Superman can't read minds nor can he be invincible.
Kayden Cox
The MCU made Captain America, a second-tier charactet in the comics, into the most popular super hero in the world today despite the majority disliking the US.
On the otherhand, DCU took the most Iconic supero hero ever who had succesfull comic book movies w/Burton's Batman up until the 2000s and completly shitted on him and reduced him into a box office failure.
Meanwhile, Nolan was able to ressurect the Batman Franchise and bring back prestige and box office success comparable to The Avengers w/o copying their formula.
WB uses the Nolan formula in Man of Steel on a character that doesn't really work well w/neo noir but is able to make an ok movie. Then DC copies the Marvel formula for Batman vs Superman and try to cram in so many character arcs in one film. Its an incoherrent mess w/allegories that DC shills claim redeem it.
Look at the state of the DC universe. Ben Affleck is a huge DC fanboy whose dream was to play Batman just dropped out as director of his own Batman movie, and theres speculation he might stop playing the character all together.
You claim that Batman vs Superman is superrior than Marvel (The Avengers), and criticize Marvel films for being shallow. Batman vs Superman copied The Avengers formula and did an inferior job resulting in an inferior movie. It doesn't matter if Marvel films are good or utter shit because regardless of their quality Batman vs Superman is worse than the Marvel movies
Ethan Taylor
>Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky
Sounds awfully familiar.
Ayden Cruz
I feel the same way, and I don't even agree with his reviews most of the time. I see so many people waving him around whenever they want to justify their shit tastes. You can tell they are shit tastes, because they never focus on anything else Armond White likes. It's like intellectual theft, trying to steal the man's authority without understanding the depth of it.
I hate that the guy's treated like a meme. He deserves better than to be the battering ram of ass blasted man children on this board.
Noah Fisher
All these Snyder interviews are pretentious delusions. I hope most of this is just comparisons he thought up after he finished the movie. He talks like this is some grand social commentary rich in allegory. Instead of making a good action/adventure movie he made an intellectual Saturday morning cartoon
Dominic Brown
>Hes no doubt used his xray vision at least once to read a person's mind. Do...do you think a person's thoughts appear in plain text scrolling across the surface of their brain?
Easton Nelson
>characters based on superman and Batman are like Superman and Batman
Henry Howard
He might be onto something, maybe he can decipher what you're thinking based on flucuations in brain waves
Mason Ramirez
The Superman analog is literally named Apollo, you mong.
Aiden King
Yeah, I don't know what your point is though.
Camden Jackson
Yeah.. nahh still wouldn't happen. It's a series of strawmen macguffin ex machinas
Nathaniel Harris
It wasn't supposed to be a contest. Lex set up Bruce to believe he had at least a puncher's chance, then sent Clark there to remove his head, and that's exactly what Lex expected to happen.
Xavier Bailey
These comparisons have been made for better than two decades now. Try to keep up.
Dominic Wood
This bait right here
Tyler Mitchell
Imagine being this plebeian, the worst thing is they think they are smart.
