Name one reason America and Russia shouldn't be allies without resorting to cyclical reasoning

Name one reason America and Russia shouldn't be allies without resorting to cyclical reasoning

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theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/russia-geography-ukraine-syria/413248/
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States
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Why would they be allies when they have absolutely nothing in common and multiple conflicting interests?

>Serious regional rivals
I mean, I'm flattered, but Russian Federation is hardly a serious rival to the US.

>America controls the turtles on which the world stands, therefore dividing our country into two and controlling the trade routes between them
>why can't we be friends
Swedlanish educayshun

>one reason
Russophobia, which is ingrained in Western culture.

Because your anti communism propaganda has been so effective even when Russia is longer communist you guys still hate them.

Because we are with China I guess.
West World hate Russia and portray russians as villains.

>this pic
youtube.com/watch?v=fj-10lIrboM

>Russia is longer communist
Oh shit, the jig is up

i wish

Because Russia must be nucked by USA.

Yeah it's America's fault and not the Russian government's fault.

Glad we could come to an understanding mate.

it is really, things were looking nice until ~2002/3 getting estonia, bulgaria etc to join and starting on the missile shield lark really kept the cold war shit going

please join our side if WW3 comes
It's a guaranteed positive outcome every time I mean look at the last two

We'll sit next one out, thanks.

Russian has thousands of nukes. It's a real rival.

But we are US colony. We'll be always with US.

Nukes are a defensive weapon. I guess everyone who can defend themselves is considered a rival by the US.

>serious regional rivals
You don't get to be called a serious regional rival unless you AT LEAST have a larger GDP than our satellites like Canada and South Korea. Russia's is comparable to Mexico's.

It's more of a rival than North Korea or Iran.

your president said russia is an equal

Our president says a lot of things.

You basically said "they are enemies because they are enemies". Most of their "conflicting interests" are due to automatically sabotaging each others affairs.

What are these conflicting interests that are so necessary to America that they have to take a negative stance against Russia that isn't simply rooted in historical animosity, mistrust and America thinking it can dominate the world singlehandedly?

There will only be "conflicting interests" as far as America thinks it can dominate all global affairs singlehandedly and allow nobody but themselves to have a sphere of influence.

Containing Russian advances in the post-Soviet regions might seem like a big deal and an "American interest", but if you look at the bigger picture, the current setup and America's desire to dominate is only driving Russia and China closer to one another while America's ability to contain any of them, including countries like Iran, falters by the day. This is unsustainable.

Once America accepts that containing all great powers simultaneously is too much of a strain they will need to prioritize. And by prioritize I mean turn towards China. Two countries that actually have "conflicting interests" that aren't rooted in world domination are Russia and China - the only thing keeping them together is their common struggle against America. China's rise is worse for both Russia and America in the long run.

The Americans are of course not ready to accept this yet and they will retain their "conflicting interests" with Russia such as keeping Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence and not give up their world police image, at the expense of having no ally against China.

But I get the feeling that once the day actually comes, both Russia and America will forget their "conflicting interests" within a matter of hours.

Hate for America was instilled deep into people in the Soviet Union, which lasted for 70 years. Russian Federation is the successor to the Soviet Union so the mindstate continues. Russians respect and miss Soviet Union, not the Russian Empire (which maybe could have been a partner with America). You can't seriously come here and find a Russian who thinks positively of Americans, publicly holding such an opinion is not acceptable in their community.

We equal in possibilities of destroying world.

Because they're not handholding faggots. Both want power and influence. Both have different beliefs.

>You can't seriously come here and find a Russian who thinks positively of Americans, publicly holding such an opinion is not acceptable in their community.
wtf man

Oh wow, that's really interesting, please, tell me more.

please tell us more about how we view other nationalities and countries.

1.Putin needs a Boogeyman to distract the bydlos from his kleptocracy.
2. U.S. allies are unnerved by recent Russian actions
3. The Kremlin hacked U.S. politicians, political groups and pushed a campaign of disinformation
4. Our ME allies and their ME allies are completely opposed.

USA: dindu nuffin the country

We also genocided native americans and made CSA start the war.

>Putin needs a Boogeyman to distract the bydlos from his kleptocracy.
Isn't this is like in states?

>Because we are with China
We both do plenty of business with them and they've ripped off military technology from both of us. Their siding with you in the Security Council is more about cock blocking us.

>Two countries that actually have "conflicting interests" that aren't rooted in world domination are Russia and China
Damn, westerners want it to be true so, so much. But the truth is: Russia and China have no conflicts of interests and we will always have them on our side to keep you at bay. And they will always have us.

>The Kremlin hacked U.S. politicians, political groups and pushed a campaign of disinformation
so on the one side russia is a crippling nation, that wll likely collapse, on the other hand they are able to change the outcome of an election of a country with a gdp of 18tn dollars

clash of interests, both are using the other to divert attention from inside problems

ill make a longer post later if the thread is still up

As long as China can't project. When they can Russia will be the only thing standing in their way in Eurasia.

>ill make a longer post later
Please, don't.

>in their way in Eurasia.
For what?

China is not interested in projecting, only in protecting their shit. And Russia is not in their way because they are not going anywhere. Russia and China would be natural allies even without the constant threat from the West, simply because we have nothing to fight over. And please, spare me the pathetic bullshit about chinese readying to take over Siberia.

>getting estonia, bulgaria
Yeah we forced them to join. Bulgaria applied in 1997.

>other nationalities and countries

Unfortunately, Russians are not necessarily an "other nationality" for us. They live and work right here so you generally learn quickly what they think and talk about. A Russian could never accept making compromises with an American. You have the biggest derzhava mentality in the world (it's the glue that holds Putin's regime together) and opposing Gayrope and Amerikantsy is the foundation of being a modern Russian.

>You have the biggest derzhava mentality in the world
pls stop

>the current setup and America's desire to dominate is only driving Russia and China closer to one another
t. brainlet

China's economy is tied to the USA at the hip, the vast majority of their upper classes favor closer Sino-American ties (partly because it's worked out really well for the past few decades), and its people are enamored with American products and culture. Russia by contrast is barely in the top ten of China's trading partners (below Brazil) and, right now, if you were to ask a middle class Chinese person what's the best cultural thing to have come out from Russia from the past few years, they'd probably answer "World of Tanks, maybe?" (yes I know, you don't have to correct me). Their cooperation with Russia stops at the occasional UNSC vote, which they can also be pro-US on because China's current leadership is very much Team Switzerland.

It only takes one no vote from a permanent member of the security council to torpedo any resolution, Russia doesn't need China's approval in that regard, china votes the way it votes because it is not in their intrest, not because it is to take a contrarian position or a 'cock block'.

I read that as him referring to the Russians in Estonia.

Can you learn my mentality and read my thoughts, as well as thoughts of every other Russian by the pictures I post?
>We are not so different
Then you might be the problem.

>Russians in Estonia.
our culture develops inside of russia you know

He is right actually.

lol
Read about naturalization of russian migrants in German. It will surprise you.

Yes, continue

I know it's not every Russian. My beef is with the Soviet Union anyway, which Russians still worship. Tsar Russia was a 300-year-old empire, from which we and Finland made it out almost completely intact with our language, culture, architecture and people. 50 years of Soviets and a 1000-year-old nation was almost destroyed. The same happened in Russia and to Russians. I have no idea why Russians continue to worship the Soviet shitshow. The mindstate is still alive and well.

>I have no idea why Russians continue to worship the Soviet shitshow.
Information vacuum.

>The same happened in Russia and to Russians. I have no idea why Russians continue to worship the Soviet shitshow.
Because the Tsardom was literally Africa-tier for the vast majority of the people living there, and despite being Commie Fucking Shits the USSR did genuinely improve living standards rapidly in almost every area.

FINE. We will too, then

>it's not every Russian
>continues to speak about Russians in general
And the
>Russians are still commies
Is da best

>a 1000-year-old nation
Are you referring to Estonia, perchance?

>We also genocided native americans and made CSA start the war.
Ah yes 19th century history is equivalent to today. The classic Putin bot argument.

>Isn't this is like in states?
We have Boogeymen but it's not Russia, the election was an annoyance and annexing Crimea was more of a WTF!? I'd say China and terrorism are our real Boogeymen. They impact the electorate far more.
You missed the word, try. The people that didn't like Clinton already didn't like/trust her and the same goes for Trump. I'm related to people across the political spectrum. All things like leaks do is make them say, "See I was right about...". These were probably the two least popular can dates in decades.

You bring literally a proofs tier argument. We live and work with Russians every day and we know very well what kind of policy they are looking for when they vote.

Do you think we started speaking our language 100 years ago? Estonia has a very long history as an autonomous region under different empires.

This is "Let Me Tell You About Your Country" and we have another contestant, the Grand Champion himself: Burger Mc Burgerson.

You are making up stats by using what, five people? Ten? Half a hundred at the very best? And I highly doubt that you had actually discussed this topic with them, so please, don't speak from the name of our country.
>putinbot
>proxy
>proxy
>paid by Kremlin
What do you even want to hear with that attitude?

That is the way of the amerifat

>Estonia has a very long history
Of course, just clarified is all. I am well aware of the glorious history of Estonian Reich.

>Name one reason America and Russia shouldn't be allies without resorting to cyclical reasoning
Because Russia requires the geopolitical necessity of controlling the Eastern European plains to protect an exposed Moscow, which is pretty much the only valuable part of their country. This will put Russia in conflict with the USA eternally, who has constantly labored to protect its 17th century philosophical parents in Western Europe.

Russia does not accept a free Eastern Europe and the USA does not accept a Western Europe that is threatened by Russian authoritarianism.

>our culture develops inside of russia you know
And they eat up your media and throw in a helping of minority paranoia.

you are too far from my cunt
youtube.com/watch?v=iesYJ634BrA&t=

>Russia does not accept a free. . .
Fucking bullshit.

what the fuck am I reading

>literally invades Georgia and Ukraine since 1990
Granted, Georgia doesn't qualify as Eastern Europe, but you're still a slave to geopolitics. Much like the USA spent endless money and countless lives (including that of foreigners) making sure communism did not take root in South America.

If the whole of South America turned communist, we would have be 100% fucked in the Cold War.

theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/russia-geography-ukraine-syria/413248/

Basic geography? On the bright side, at least your leaders understand it even if the average Russian hohol doesn't.

>putinbot
>>proxy
>>proxy
>>paid by Kremlin
>What do you even want to hear with that attitude?
It literally their go to points: natives (most dead of disease before colonists even came), slaves, Northern aggression, Texas, California, etc. Comparing shit from the 1800s to the 2000s is the height of a strawman argument.

>literally invades Georgia and Ukraine since 1990

>theatlantic.com
I'm good, thanks. Your post was enough retardation for one day.

You cannot deny the validity of the Atlantic!

Russian dictators need an external enemy to keep Russia unified and it would take a small miracle and total collapse of America for them to switch one enemy for another.

>since 1990
Literally what.
>invades Georgia
South Ossetians independence was guaranteed by Russia, when they and Abkhazia de-facto seceded from Georgia in the early 90's. And when Georgia fired MLRS on "their own city" and then moved army in, well, we kept our word.
>invaded Ukraine
Just like referendum in Kosovo was an invasion in Serbia? Or should I start screaming about invasions every time I see US mercs/volunteers?

>Russia does not accept a free. . .
>Fucking bullshit.
Nothing but if I was a journalist there, I wouldn't want to write bad things about Putin...I doubt it's turn out well for me. They'd probably find me beaten to death or drown in a river.

Don't waste your breath, m8. You are talking to brainwashed idiots who hate you.

>(which maybe could have been a partner with America).
It was. The Russian Empire was the only global power that supported the Union side of our Civil War... not even a joke.

Britain and France supported the slave-owning Confederates because they wanted cotton. Other European powers (notably Spain) stayed out, IIRC.

I was parodying how you blamed Russians for everything bad that happened with your country, now what the hell are you talking about.

Just because Russia = Soviet Union...
>these persons unironically believe this

Looks like we've got an Atlantianphobe here.

>Name one reason Nazis and Jews shouldn't be allies

>this /bant/ spammer claims to know the actual truth
I can do this as well.
That's why our young generation is so anti-Putin? And what "political killings of journalists" in other countries can you list?

>ad hom
not an argument

Your entire civilized/settled region is on a plain, which happens to be one you share with Poland and the other Eastern Europeans up to the Carpathian Mountains.

It's no surprise that your country's history consists of constantly invading Poland, Ukraine, and Finland and succeeding. You need to create military installations in those countries because they're so indefensible. A country like Germany or Sweden can roll right through (admittedly, with some problems in Finland's bogs and forests) with tanks and be right at your doorstep in a week.

Simply put, your country is in a shitty place. The only thing that would solve this is joining NATO (or an EU that has its own army, whichever) which would diffuse your western weakness on the plains.

>I was parodying how you blamed Russians for everything bad that happened with your country, now what the hell are you talking about.
Is this bizarro land? I only side your Kremlin tried to screw with our election. Your cold war dinosaur of a leader can't even except the fall of the USSR was inevitable. We just gave it a push.

Russian patriot detected
>COCK-A-DOODLE-DOO CRIMEAN REFERENDUM

what the fuck!?

...

>Kremlin tried to screw with our election

Can you already tell us how?

@80469145
> ch hk po

He'll teach to love Russia

>Literally what.
I'm differentiating between the behavior of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You don't deserve to be judged by what the USSR did.

>South Ossetians independence was guaranteed by Russia
And what happens when we guarantee Kamchatka's independence? That's an aggressive move that only happens when you either trying to hold onto weak territory or you're trying to chip away at an adjacent country.

Or say, the USA guarantees Catalunya's independence... the EU attacks us, somehow. Would you not think that's an aggressive move on the USA's part. According to your view, sparking a war in Spain like this would be the EU's fault, not the USA's.

>Just like referendum in Kosovo was an invasion in Serbia?
NATO got involved after Serbian started resorting to genocide. Our government was criticized for acting too late, but I doubt you'd remember that because you were probably born in 1993.

>Or should I start screaming about invasions every time I see US mercs/volunteers?
Yes you should, because the average American citizen opposes it too. There's a reason why Donald Trump was elected last year, because the USA is trending toward isolationism and protectionism. In the USA, isolationism is very strongly coupled with an anti-war stance... so you'd be on the side of a majority of Americans when you criticize those things.

Russian Empire and everything it stood for has been dead since the mensheviks lost. Not only did it die, it was also essentially wiped from history thanks to ardent labor of the commie ideologists.

>COCKADOODLEDOO RUSSOPHOBES SHOULD CELEBRATE VICTORY DAY
As of excepted.

>since the mensheviks lost
This thread, I swear to god

>And what "political killings of journalists" in other countries can you list?
Let's compare

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

Yours only starts in 1992 ours in 1837.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States

russia seems to be an adversary all the time

I don't know why, they just don't seem to be humble enough to work with others