Why do you think Rambo became a multi-film franchise about senseless, gratuitous violence...

Why do you think Rambo became a multi-film franchise about senseless, gratuitous violence, and Rambo himself became a character synonymous with over-the-top aggression, when the original First Blood (1982) was explicitly about the tragedy, futility, and torment of that kind of life? Was the message just totally lost on audiences who came for the action and explosions?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=TFnVmzsGRXI
nothingbutcomics.net/2014/12/09/militarysponsorssuperherofilms/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

money

well yeah but like, Ronald Reagan said multiple times in speeches that his policies were inspired by the aggressiveness of Rambo.

Did the Gipper miss the part where Rambo broke down like crying child because of how deeply that aggressiveness damaged him and rendered him unfit for civil society?

The badass action in the first one overshadowed the fact that it was really Rambo being a severely damaged man unfit for civilian life that made it great.

He was literally bashing the fash.

Rambo was one of the first alpha male 80s action hero movies so people used it to describe the kind of gratuitous violence for the genre even though that wasn't the point. And then at some point it became a meme that war badasses were all called rambo

>Ronald Reagan said multiple times in speeches that his policies were inspired by the aggressiveness of Rambo
that's called pandering. I wouldn't be surprised if he never actually saw rambo (and to be autistic about it, the film he mentioned was part II)

it came to be known for violence and action because of money, as user said. the sequels were made solely to make money so they focused just on aggression and violence. and the sequels outnumber the original

"First Blood" is the story of a mentally ill man who bashes the fash and the violence only ends when people stop fighting and just give him a hug.

Even without the original ending (with the suicide), First Blood has a downer ending. What guarantee is there that the police of Hope aren't still going to be corrupt, abusive assholes? They'll just background check their victims a little more thoroughly first.

And then of course the overt tragedy of the fact that there was a whole army of soldiers that came home as broken as Rambo, and those were the ones that DID come home. And that more and more men like him are produced every day.

Did you know that more Vietnam veterans have committed suicide after the war than actually died in the war?

It kind of makes me think of how people think of the Terminator as another symbol of machismo when the whole point of the Terminator is that it's an unfeeling, unflinching, emotionless killing machine. Why would that be something to look up to?

Granted, it became more human in the sequels, but the Terminator is loved for much different reasons than the robot from Short Circuit.

>Did you know that more Vietnam veterans have committed suicide after the war than actually died in the war?
I'm pretty sure that's almost every war we've been in since. The military sucks I don't get why people join. Nobody likes the administration, nobody believes the wars are good ideas, the culture is purposefully abrasive, there's the rapes, the suicide, the terrible benefits, almost no chance of decent healthcare once you get back etc..

I mean sure you get your college paid for but I just don't get it

It's a fucking military. It's not supposed to be fun, it's not a career opportunity, it's a fighting force to defend the country.

>nobody likes the administration
Try working in a retail or restaurant that offers veteran discounts.

>the terrible benefits
For some reason this only seems true for legit war vets. I meet guys all the time who've served less than ten years living on easy street.

Nvm that first part read it as admiration

The benefits are outstanding, people don't realize how shitty benefits are for most people working in corporate America.

>The military sucks I don't get why people join
>I mean sure you get your college paid for but I just don't get it

College is a reason, but beyond just paying for college, it's just somewhere to go. To learn things. Think of all the shitty, backwater, rural towns where there's no opportunity for anything. Especially today more than ever, since manufacturing jobs have all disappeared and with it, an entire town's available jobs. When there's nothing else. the military's an option.

Elsewhere, it's very much a propaganda thing. I remember the military coming to my high school and setting up pull-up bars in the cafeteria and shit, trying to get students who couldn't even vote yet to pledge to future enrollment. At the time I didn't think much of it but looking back, it seems vile and manipulative. You think a high school kid is really going to understand the risks and commitment of the military? Especially when it's being pitched by a good-looking guy in a uniform in a two-minute conversation in the high school cafeteria?

The rest of it is genuine patriotism but I'd love to see how patriotic they are when they get home with limbs missing and PTSD and no individual nor service entity really gives a meaningful shit. The VA is a bad joke of what it should be, and the GOP's trying to gut Medicaid which countless veterans duly depend on. At least the ones who aren't fucking homeless do.

>legit war vets
When people tend to talk about veterans in need, they're almost always implicitly referring to combat veterans. Not that the other guys aren't important parts of the machine but I don't think you get PTSD from running code or repairing a plane.

MUH MURRIKAH MUH FUCK YEAH USA #1 USA #1! propaganda.
It seriously is that simple.
70% of 80s movies were made as propaganda to shit on the soviet union. Ironic, because the subhuman jew kikes at Hollywood are all dirty, degenerate commie fucks.
Nowadays they push multiculturalism and portraying the white man as the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet, also all that queer, cock sucking and trans degeneracy.

Did someone here (or ever) watch this?
youtube.com/watch?v=TFnVmzsGRXI
Single-man adaptation of the actual First Blood plot

I forgot the niggerdom. Niggers being portaryed as superior everywhere in Kikewood now.

he would be labeled a terrorist today

it was the first movie that made people think one trained man can out perform 50 cops before that people had realistic expectations for an unarmed man fighting against armed searchers it makes people feel powerful

Honestly this thread just proves to me that America is a shitty place that doesn't care about it's own wellbeing because of propaganda and horrible design that won't be changed. Like how ethanol and corn syrup are fucking awful but because Iowa is the first primary it gets anything it wants despite being a shithole

OBSESSED

>Rambo III is about delivering Stinger Missiles to the Muhajideen to fight the Soviets
>Muhajideen fighters became Al Qaeda after the Cold War

MURRICA

yeah america fucking sucks but our mainland was unscathed by both world wars so we just kind of powered through the twentieth century while everyone else got fucked. also, imperialism.

I'm a burger also dubsposter

I genuinely don't that know for sure.

Remember this about Rambo: in First Blood, he never directly kills anyone. People get maimed and injured, yes, but the only person he even comes close to being directly involved in the death of is the guy that was shooting at him from the helicopter. Rambo just threw the rock, it was the shooter's own damn fault for leaning so far out of it while they were caught in a thermal draft.

That's probably the only (in-universe) reason why he wasn't fucking immediately sentenced to death, too.

>immediately sentenced to death
That and he killed almost every single witness

Only saw the first 2 but I thought they were subdued enough.

>it was the first movie that made people think one trained man can out perform 50 cops

In First Blood, most of the cops are volunteers. Just people from around town who work at the drug store and shit. Hardly any of them except the principal force is properly trained, and even then, they're small-town cops, not a SWAT team or anything.

I thought it was a cool touch about the movie, the unprepared townspeople who thought they were so tough and macho for joining the National Guard but get proved incompetent, frightened, and foolish when actually put to the test. Everyone thinks they'll be such a badass in those positions but in all likelihood you'll probably just get fucked.

all about the shekels

Does anyone know what the fuck he's on about?

In 1982, it was still fashionable to make an anti-Nam Deer Hunter type movie. There really were no mindless pro-war movies at that time, so it wouldn't have made sense to make a Rambo II style flick. The country was in a recession and everyone was kind of depressed. Cold War (from a U.S./European perspective) was kind of on hold as the USSR was distracted in Afghanistan.

By the time First Blood II would have been made, everyone forgot about Vietnam vets and started worrying more about the commies. Post-1983, things started to get pretty tense in Europe as far as military exercises and shit. Reagan beating the drum that America was great and commies were evil. The country's whole mindset had changed a ton in a few years. Perfect time for a movie about a man single handedly winning the Vietnam War.

because people are fucking stupid obviously

whats wrong with that guys face

Shit, that's a good point. Early 80s was still kind of the "mourning phase" of getting humiliated in Vietnam but the mid-80s was about getting our groove back. We needed people to feel unstoppable again, so First Blood II basically "redeemed" Rambo in order to rewrite history.

Just sucks for all the real-life veterans of Vietnam who still needed help. Maybe because Americans wanted to fool themselves into thinking Rambo was accurate, they all just doubled down on ignoring the real-life reminders.

always enjoy the little message at the end of part 2 saying 'we salute the heroics of the brave muhadijeen taliban fighters' or something. To be fair that Dalton Bond did it too, films were such blatant propaganda back then.

>but the mid-80s was about getting our groove back.

When you say get our groove back, you mean sell out and begin the destruction of the American dream.

Well yeah, obviously. By "our," I mean the ruling elites. And they turned their success (at the expense of the poor and middle class) alchemy-like into a new, rejuvenated patriotism. It was getting a lot shittier for average people and the mass repeal of regulations would fuck us over twenty years later, but at the time, it felt GREAT to see America back on top! It was like peddling snake oil, patented to cure the common Commie.

This goes without saying but "They Live" is all about this kind of thing.

>It's not supposed to be fun, it's not a career opportunity, it's a fighting force to defend the country

Soldier here, let me dispel some of this even though the theme you're trying to hit you hit dead on.

>not supposed to be fun

That's the problem, for certain people, it IS fun. You're conditioned from birth in our society to believe that real manhood comes from being a soldier. Blowing shit up isn't fun? Killing people isn't fun? Having bitches fuck you because of your uniform? What kills the 'fun' is the total lack of freedom supplanted by people that are pants on head fucking retards. If you're even semi talented, competent, or high IQ in anyway, the military will slowly eat away at your soul until there is nothing less.

>administration

Unless it's a conservative no one joins because of the president.

>nobody believes wars are good ideas

Except people that want to get paid to fight and kill

>purposefully abrasive

The toxicity in today's military leadership is a direct result of the point I just made about talent and competence. Career soldiers are too fucking stupid to do anything else in their lives and the older they get (and higher ranking) the more toxic they become and less competent they become due to indoctrination.

>rapes

This is a problem.

>Suicide

Second leading cause of death. It's take so much out of you to be a soldier and you get so little back.

>decent healthcare

Half the people I know on VA benefits are completely defrauding the system. It's broken from top to bottom.

>Career soldiers are too fucking stupid to do anything else in their lives

Do you think it's just because they don't know how to do anything else that they go back into the system, and it just turns them vampire-like into another one of their own monsters?

During Rambo's breakdown in First Blood, one of the most heartbreaking lines is "I can drive a tank, I can shoot an M-80, I used to be in charge of multi-million dollar equipment but now I can't even hold down a job washing cars for a week."

The problem no one wants to talk about is the fact that if an ideal world is a world without war, then once an ideal world is achieved, we'll be left with a shitload of people who don't know how to do anything other than make war.

>During Rambo's breakdown in First Blood, one of the most heartbreaking lines is "I can drive a tank, I can shoot an M-80, I used to be in charge of multi-million dollar equipment but now I can't even hold down a job washing cars for a week."

Shit now that I think about it this makes the whole Rambo franchise even more tragic on a meta-textual level. We'll never get a movie where Rambo finally settles down and is left alone and gets to recuperate, recover, and rejoin society. Audiences would find it to be not just too boring, but too much of a departure—Rambo, as a created character, is designed just for war.

>"God didn't make Rambo. I made him."

That's why the final act juxtaposition is so fucking stark. I don't see what's "awesome" about a bandana-clad beefcake with bullet bandoleers and an M-80 running around what's basically Smalltown, USA. It's supposed to be absurd, ridiculous, and in a way, repulsive. Soldiers don't belong at home.

yeah exactly my point, but I don't think people saw it like that

Now that I think about it, First Blood is literally Predator from the Predator's perspective.

The difference though, and what makes Predator a horror film, is that the Predator ENJOYS killing. Rambo's just trying to escape.

Wasn't the second Predator movie set in a city?

Even today, lots of films are propaganda. Man of Steel and American Sniper are two that I can think of off the top of my head that were produced in part with military spending. Remember how pro-military they were, and all those recruitment ads that came out aroud them?

Your tax dollars went towards starting the DCEU and giving Bradley Cooper a fake baby.

Was there that much propaganda in Man of Steel? I remember him basically telling the military to fuck off the whole movie and throwing a satellite or something at them

It's half indoctrination and half complete lack of integration into society.

In the military, your job is to show up in the right uniform and do what your told. it's literally that fucking easy.

No mortage/rent. No utilities. No food costs. No insurance. Everythign you need planned is planned for you. You're never alone, and no matter how big a piece of shit you are someone will always have your back.

The military's target demographic is white males from lower middle class to lower class backgrounds because they're the ones who buy into it the most. They NEED that infrastructure. It gives them self worth, purpose, and value, which are things they are completely incapable of finding on their own. Once they're out? They have nothing. They are nothing.

So throw manic depression if not outright clinical depression on top of soul crushing loneliness, lack of perceived value, and then mix in the fact that soldiers are conditioned from day one to look down on civilians....I mean the shit writes itself dude.

The more we talk about it the more I'm convinced that First Blood might be the best accidental war movie of all time.

>defend your country going to another continent and killing gooks

so this is the glorious freedom

Back when it came out everyone loved the action and there was an overall resugence of the action genre, that goes back to the sword fighting movies and Errol Flynn.

Rambo was never seen as a serious anti war movie because Stallone accent was to damn funny.

You'd be surprised. The military's cooperated with movies before to provide them with equipment and all that for expensive props and whatnot (Top Gun was unsurprisingly one of these movies) but X-Men First Class was actually the first movie to be fully, officially sponsored by the military. This article has a good overview: nothingbutcomics.net/2014/12/09/militarysponsorssuperherofilms/

>The more we talk about it the more I'm convinced that First Blood might be the best accidental war movie of all time.
I watched it on a whim just yesterday but it's been roiling in my mind ever since, mostly because I'm grappling with all the ways it still seems tragically relevant.

>Stallone accent was to damn funny.
The only time it ever almost took me out of it was when he's talking to Trautman on the radio.
>Rambo was never seen as a serious anti war movie
I dunno about that. Even if it wasn't seen as one then, we have retrospect now.

In the novel that First Blood is based off of, Rambo is a lot more psychopathic, actually killing something of like 16 cops instead of sparing them or only indirectly killing them like in the movie.

Do you think it's more powerful for Rambo to be depicted as an actual murderer, killing civilians so casually, or for him to show more restraint? The former is a better example of him being unable to "turn it off" but the latter makes him more sympathetic.

His accent was passable most of the time because it made him seem like a drunk in the beginning, which sold the surprise when he turns out to be a badass. And then at the end it was like he was actually a blubbering mess and unable to speak.

I would have liked a little more murder but 16 cops seems a little excessive, maybe he kills a cop who trips over a trap in the wrong way or something. And they could have had a good scene where he has to CQC someone and he accidentally turns them into pulp before realizing what he was doing

makes me think of the opening to First Blood Part II. the colonel goes to offer Rambo the new mission vietnam, and Rambo asks him "do we get to win this time?"

First Blood Part II very much feels like a symbolic, cathartic mulligan

I think the closest we come to a big moment like that in First Blood is when he tackles the eleven-year-old kid who was just out hunting with his dad. Like, Rambo has his knife to a child's throat and there's a long, long moment of hesitation where he knows that if he lets this kid go, his cover is blown.

But he ultimately does let the kid go unharmed, even though it costs him his position, because he's not trying to be a criminal or a hostage-taker.

Like when he steps out of cover after the guy falls out of the helicopter. Hands up, in the open, crying and pleading to the officers on the cliff that he didn't do anything.