Socialism

I often hear that socialism always fails, and has done so over 100 times (the number varies), but can you actually name more than 10 countries where that happened?

>protip: you can't

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evilletimes.blogspot.com.br/2014/06/logical-fallacy-17-no-true-scotsman.html
federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021108/default.htm
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bump

Bump. No one can an instance where this actually happened? Disappointing Sup Forums.

Come on guys

By not providing examples you're essentially admitting that socialism is the best economic system there is.

Its because there never was a real socialist country.

Socialism is the best thing since the pointy stick.

Only Nationalism is Socialism.

Chile, right now
Our growth has slowed down dramatically since the socialist president got her second term, it went from 2.25 to 1.75 from January to July.

We are facing a crisis in out educational system because they're trying to implement a free education program that won't be able to be sustainable in less than 30 years....

Seriously?

The one thing that gave me hope for south america was you guys.

Pinochet must be doing 120 rpm on his coffin.

>socialism has never been tried

Thankfully the left is losing so bad, the president has a 22% approval, that's the lowest approval rating ever.
Decades will have to pass before the masses elect a new left-wing president again. Thank you for your condolences and best of luck hue-bro

USSR, entire eastern bloc, Venezuela, Vietnam, continental China, Mongolia, Cuba, much more of Latin America, Afghanistan, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia

> Bumping yourself.
Smells like a summer redditor to me. Go cry about Bernie losing the race again, please.

Isn't it always like that?

Things are peacefull, prosperity has been achieved.

Then the collectivists take over, fuck everything up.

Decades later, it happens again.

When will we learn?

Obvious bait, regardless I'll bite.

GDR, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, China, North Korea, Angola, Bulgaria, Vietnam, Cambodia, Yugoslavia.

Hey look that's more than you asked for. Now what is the common theme here with these countries? All were (some still are) socialist states. All went through a series of incredibly violent episodes, all suffered from massive problems relating to simple everyday necessities such as food shortages, all went through periods of extreme political and social turmoil. My question is how many more victims must be added to this list before people realise that a socialist utopia is both unattainable and unworkable.

Might I also add that those which were once socialist countries are now overwhelmingly opposed to the idea of socialism. Isn't it quite striking that the vast majority of "socialists" are middle class westerners who have never in their lives had to go through the abject horror and devastation that follows when a revolutionary Marxist party takes the reins of power. It is demonstrably the case that the act of asserting complete control over the economy will inevitably cause great harm to it.

it's an endless cycle, the desperate are always the first to fall for the lies and false hope of the collective capital suicide that is socialism.
our downfall will always be misguided people .

not an argument

>Yugoslavia
>in the same league as North Korea or Cambodia
wew lad
>conveniently not mentioning the millions of former Yugoslavs and Soviets who are nostalgic for the old days

Reminder that socialism has never been tried

You're right, Yugoslavia was obviously not in the same league as North Korea but you can't deny that their economy suffered greatly as a result of the state's attempt to micromanage the economy. As for your second point, I would take issue with your figure of millions, can you point me to a study or a statistic that reflects this figure?

Don't worry, the cycle of tyranny-freedom-tyranny is just about ready to end with deutsche bank's collapse.

>netherlands

>thinks socialism is something dictators do

go back to your smack you ignorant cunt

Nice meme

Well then, neither has capitalism.

Nope because REEAALL socialism hasn't been tried :^)

Yeah... But i wish it wouldn't end with eternal tyranny.

Global government, global currency and global taxation.

What people are failing to realize is that this IS the fifth international.

Yes it has. And its caused six gorillion deaths.

Socialism on the other hand has never been tried.

Only socialism can end the plight of the poor and downtrodden.

In socialism, everyone is rich because everything is owned by the collective.

Lets try some socialism, it'll work this time!

(this is sarcasm, please open your eyes)

DPRK
Cuba
Venezuela
Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia
East Germany
Hungary
Poland
Romania
Russia
Yugoslavia
Albania
Greece
Ukraine


I am sure I am missing quite a few. You can add to the list a few money when the North Sea oil run s dry.

>In socialism, everyone is rich because everything is owned by the collective.


In Socialism everyone is equally poor because everything is owned by a few elite.

This is horrendous bait but I'll bite anyway

All the colored countries have identified as socialist at least once

evilletimes.blogspot.com.br/2014/06/logical-fallacy-17-no-true-scotsman.html

romania (literally used to be named socialist republic of romania)

Russia
Romania
Yugoslavia
Poland
DDR
China
North Korea
Vietnam
Cambodia
Venezuela
All 28 member states of the EU

As in actual socialism? Never happened.

As in attempted socialism? Plenty of countries have tried it.

A more useful challenge might be to list at least ten countries where socialism has worked.

I wont be bothering to check back for your answers, because you cannot name a single one that has succeeded without entirely abandoning the platform.

Quit pretending that a mixed market with welfare spending is socialism you ignorant fuck.

Welfare is just socialism in one particular industry(charity) and has the same problems as socialism in every industry(USSR).

Daily reminder we've been fighting the same enemies for hundreds of years

What a shitty thread.

>Lets try some socialism, it'll work this time!

I think that's why comunism always come back. They always think that their version is the legit one. (Like a religion or something)

Before we go any further we should probably state exactly what we mean when we say socialism. Is it the nationalisation of industry? Is it a state sponsored health care system? Is it bread lines?

The problem is that "socialism" doesn't really mean anything. In places where people like it politicians will claim to be it, even if they're not, like in france. Sweden, even. There "socialism" just means "honking big welfare state," the idea that the government should control the means of production isn't taken seriously.

Even when it is taken seriously, the results are varied. For example, Stalin's 5 year plans were actually effective for helping the USSR industrialize. Obviously the soviet system failed later, but at what time horizon do we count success or failure? After all, "capitalism" frequently has financial crises that cause huge suffering. Meanwhile, Cuba is poor but stable. Is it a success? A failure?

The reality is that there are some lessons from economics you can't ignore.
>don't print money excessively
>don't pay everyone the same no matter what
>don't set a bunch of price floors and ceilings
Modern latin america shows why these are important. Chavez and Morales are both actual socialists who have nationalized industries. But Chavez did all three and Morales did none.

So while Venezuela's economy is imploding, Bolivia is continuing to develop. They might be developing faster if foreign investors weren't scared of the government, but the people might be better off in the short-run with a government that prioritizes them over corporations.

So that's that.

So much mamertism in the modern world really disgusts me.
The soviet subversion really took a toll on the west, at this rate the ex-commies will be the only ones left standing.

True, no explicitly socialist party won any seats in the parliament in previous year's elections, the socialists had to disguise as conservatives to win

You are missing the point entirely.

All capitalist crises were directly caused by state intervention. Like the housing market crash was caused by bush's housing program.

When you create artificial variations in the system, the system will then try to go back to its balanced state. The "huge suffering" you perceive is really people loosing artificial advantages they didn't EARN.

Your grasp of theory is lacking.

>All capitalist crises were directly caused by state intervention.
>conservatives actually believe this
piss-ignorant, baka senpai

Is still not socialism believe me, Socialism is the means of production in hands of the state. What you have in Chile is a bad form of social democracy

Not even a conservative.

Name a crisis that wasn't directly caused by state intervention.

China is a combination of State capitalism with wild capitalism. The main purpose of the state companies is to make profit and Transnacional companies exploit Chinese workers. China is a combination of the two worst forms of capitalism

Venezuela right now
Just south American countries in general.
Europe.

Venezuela is doing great I hear.

I am thinking about possibly paying a smuggler to escape to the safety of South America really soon.

Capitalism has literally had crashes since it's very beginning. Dutch tulip bubble, south sea bubble, and on and on. Google "this time is different".

Periodic crashes predate industrialization, predate marx. They are a core feature of capitalism and the idea that they are caused by state intervention is absurd, as is your claim that Bush trying to get lenders to help negroes fill out their loan applications caused the housing bubble.

It's a shitty conservative talking point with no basis in reality. Everyone who was there knows what was going on. People thought there was money in buying and selling houses, and so they rushed in to it. Same thing that happened with stocks in the 1920's.

You could also read some Minsky and expand your mind a bit.

Socialism by your definition does not exist. Its like candy land.

EU Socialist? Are you retarded?

Brazil is on the verge of absolute economic collapse. Our economy is hanging by a thread.

The only thing holding us afloat is the low price of oil enabling the transportation of goods arround the country. The second the price goes up, we can't afford to move produce from inland farms to cities, and we can't afford to distribute goods in general arround the country.

The only form of commercial transportation in brazil is trucks. There are no trains, there are no barges.

Unlike socialism which just has a downward trend. No crash just a continually slow burn to the ground.

My favorite one is the great depression.

"Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.

Best wishes for your next ninety years."

Source: federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021108/default.htm

This is a joke right?

What is socialism then? Give one example of a socialist country.

And every single one was caused by artificial intervention.

There has never been a natural economic crash, because the markets don't need to correct their natural state. They only need to correct artificial bubbles created artificially.

When you subsidize something, you inflate its price. Thats what a bubble is. The bubble popping isn't the problem, inflating the bubble is the problem.

There is a definition and is very clear. People just want to give opinions without open a fucking book.

Thats because the market is substituted by an artificial system.

Without the market's self-regulation, no economic activity that isn't contained is viable.

The definition is not clear at all. By its definition a capitalist society is socialism because workers own the production of a nation though their labour.

I often hear about the datamining shills and using their information against the legitimate users of this board. I wonder what will happen to them once we get some info of their wranglers. I wonder what will happen to the shills that think they are a little too smug. I wonder if the cyber command will come to aid them. I dont think so. I wonder what i will do to your smug think tank once i find my info there and i wonder what the dogs will to your friends.

is what do you call a socialist government that tried and failed to produce it's own goods?

Are you trying to prove me right or something?

Yes, the fed was granted monopoly. Thats an artificial state intervention in the economy.

Yes, it created a crisis. That crisis will end when the monopoly is broken. That is currently happening with gold-backed cryptocurrencies.

Do you even read what you are writing?

please reread my post >And every single one was caused by artificial intervention.
pic related

Socialism is a state run economy. Capitalism is a private run economy. Now tell me who owns the means of production in EU? Government? Or Private? What you have in EU is a social democracy or a welfare state.

>USSR, 1917 - 1992 (Not much to say here)
>Cuba (mixed basket here, economy is shit mostly due to US sanctions but social services are pretty fucking top, definitely still not better off with socialism though)
>China (lol, these fags had to make their own special economic zones that are just capitalist in order to make any fucking money as a nation)
>Venezuela (no explanation needed)
>Yugoslavia (the fact it no longer exists should say something)
>India (population of over 1 billion but nobody gives a fuck about them because they're all poor as shit even compared to chinks)
>Afghanistan (tried out socialism 3 times, fucking ended in flames each time)
>Bulgaria (yeah it's actually a country, not socialist anymore because surprise surprise, didn't work out)
>Ethiopia (couldn't find food I guess)
>Somalia (couldn't find anything I guess)

Bonus:
>Hungary (hasn't been socialist for 25 years, still a failed state)


CONCLUSION: Socialism, not even once

Dammit. A picture saying i'm wrong. You got me.

Can't argue with that logic.

Even if you're from the US, you can't be that retarded.
See

I gave you two good sources and you provided no arguments. Eat a dick.

See? This is the type of shit I am trying to point at. Retarded people with their own distortioned definition of Socialism.

You don't own the means of production, the final purpose of the private companies is to make profits, you are there to make profits and they can take you out of the organisation whenever they want even if you are capacitated or not for the job.

Only when married to nationalism.
Unadulterated socialism is cancer without anything greater to direct it towards.

Weon Qliao I am from Venezuela currently living in Sydney. Hugo Chavez nationalise all the companies with the excuse of creating a socialist economy. Aftermath more than 96% of the economy is state run and the country is broke. Believe you don't know the true powers of Socialism

>i gave you a link to some of the propaganda that convinced me of my positions because i can't argue them myself

You know, my time is valuable. I don't spend the whole day making holes in drug dealers so i can come home and teach american teenagers that stealing is wrong.