Is there a rational argument against allowing a consenting adult to change their body as they wish?

Is there a rational argument against allowing a consenting adult to change their body as they wish?

I don't understand how there is any debate about body autonomy here.

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No, anyone that believes otherwise is a fascist. Glorification of a mental illness in media is a different store.

It's almost like taking pride in self mutilation and trying to normalize it for our future generations through media is okay

Go for it if you want, don't expect everyone to treat you like a woman though, and don't expect the media to pander to you.

19, 20, 21, 22. What the fuck happened here?

The hippocratic oath is do no harm, so it would not be moral for a doctor to intentionally hurt someone who is mentally ill. If someone thinks they are transable you can't go to the doctor to get your legs cut off.

HRT and penis-chopping have more reprecussions than you know. Hell, scientists still don't fully understand its effects.
Trans people suffer from a mental illness.
Trans "woman" Blaire White even implied it in one of "her" videos!
"She" said transgender is a real condition, gender dysphoria is a real condition, but being genderfluid isn't, so being genderfluid makes no sense. Ironically, mental illness is never justified with reason.
>Oh, I'm an apple because I feel like one!

So, why should the mentally ill be allowed to change their bodies so radically, and often permanently?

>Don't expect the media to pander to trans people, especially the "women"
Who is Caitlyn Jenner?

something beautiful.

The tax payers have to pay for the transitions of people who can't afford it. Private businesses are forced by the federal government to allow their choice of bathroom. Your actions don't exist in a vacuum, they effect society.

I've heard endless complaints and even downright slurs against transgendered people, but I've never once heard someone say it should be illegal to have cosmetic genital surgery for any/all/no reason.

No one gives a shit if Lando Calrissian wants to have boobs. Most people would just think he was an idiot or delusional.

No, but I don't wanna pay for it with my tax money!

Yes, it's degenerate. It's that simple.
Of course, there's no rational argument (besides Kant), but there's also no argument against suicide. That doesn't mean it's okay.
Fuck you and your trans shit op

>consenting adult to change their body as they wish?

This is fine.

All the meme bullshit about parents pushing their kids to be trannies is not. It absolutely is child abuse.

This.

I hate when cunts like OP attempt to frame trannyism in Liberty Land hypotheticals ("Heh, unless you're transitioning yourself, how does it affect you, shitlord? OWNED") when yes, our taxes do go towards "transitioning"

What the hell is going on at 21 months?

>there's also no argument against suicide. That doesn't mean it's okay.
Wow, are you a thinker or a poet? Your rhetoric has the power to completely restructure one's approach to the world.

from fit to fag
>thisiswhat/fit/lookslike

Being tranny is a cheating to others, who may think you are a woman. Why other types of deceiving people are not allowed ?!

Also - all unnatural behaviour - that would lead to society collapse if spread too wide, should be deprecated, the stronger the more urge it is for reproduction...

All types of homosexuality are also disgusting on genetically encoded level, because people should disgust things, that would lead to specie extermination...

On the other hand, if the environment is overcrowded, there may be a natural push to diminish reproduction...?

It also goes towards the treatment of morbidly obese, smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts. You wouldn't possibly be against alcohol, drugs or cigarettes, would you, user?

>all unnatural behaviour - that would lead to society collapse if spread too wide
Define unnatural behaviour. While you're at it, you might as well read up on a fallacy called "appeal to nature".

>>gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/what-many-transgender-activists-dont-want-you-to-know-and-why-you-should-know-it-anyway/

Transsexuals are degenerates who walk around with raging hard-ons all day. They are lechers and those who support their cause should be condemned for supporting such deviance

why would a guy that looks like that ruin himself??

these people are fucking insane.

Are you picrel, user? You look grumpy today.

You just justified fascism by implying it saves lives. Look at suicide rates for these loonies during and after HRT

What's so bad about fascism anyway?

what?

No gibs
No grievance points

the legitimate complaint is against non consenting adults undertaking the surgery. ie chilren.

Also no divide and conquer within borders. Unified people are bad people

I agree but even in the case of mental illness its up to the doctor and patient. Not you. Your opinion is literally worthless outside of your body.

>Mutilation

That's a pretty nice buzzword. I'm not transitioning or trans. Just not an authoritarian body controller.

I never said anything about gender fluidity or tumblr snowflake genders. I'm not even talking about transgender people specifically. Just body autonomy in general.

You pay the medical bills of people who destroy their bodies with cigarettes, alcohol, and other irresponsible consumption/alteration. I don't hear any issues with that and those demographics are a WAY greater population.

Further most transgender drugs are dirt cheap. You hardly pay for shit.

Even broader, this isn't specifically about trannys, just body autonomy in general.

>Appeal to nature

The overall mental health of transgender individuals has been studied in 6-7 peer reviewed papers. All showing marked improvements of stress levels and general emotional stability.

Also, the suicide and regret rate of transgender individuals has been constantly falling for ~20 years. It appears to be a social and cultural issue attached to: work place discrimination, being disproportionate victims of sexual assault, being disproportionate victims of battery, lack of access to healthcare, etc.

The suicide rate of early transgender transitioners is practically nil.

Even all that being said, what is the argument against body autonomy. I don't get it.

>allowing
No. But it should be publicly shamed and widely unacceptable. It should be the norm to be turned away from businesses if you're a tranny. Encouraging mental illness is not a good or respectable thing.

>Is there a rational argument
This is reddit tier pseudo intellectual faggotry
You can make a rational argument for anything as long as it fits your end goals
I dont like to look at them therefore the rational thing to do is ban them

why would you destroy your gains like that

>have to keep taking hormones to keep up the appearance
>purely cosmetic surgery to essentially make you reproduce
>proven to be the byproduct of mental illness
>high suicide rate even after surgery
Seems to me we could work to come up with a real solution to this dysphoria, but that wouldn't be progressive.

It obviously started a split but then at 22 fell for the starting strength meme

was close to making it

No. It's the individuals choice. Buts it's societies duty to stomp out degeneracy wherever it finds it.

There is when my fucking tax dollars have to pay for it. You want to hack off your penis then do it on your own dime

You can do whatever the fuck you want, just like anyone can do whatever the fuck they want.

If you want to get a female body, you have the right to do it, but people have the right to call you whatever they want.

kek

>The 20/21 months HRT photos

ITS HANDS ARE FUCKING HUGE

You pay the medical bills of people who destroy their bodies with cigarettes, alcohol, and other irresponsible consumption/alteration. I don't hear any issues with that and those demographics are a WAY greater population.

Further most transgender drugs are dirt cheap. You hardly pay for shit.

Even broader, this isn't specifically about trannys, just body autonomy in general.

>Degeneracy
Nice meme.

What does AA(non-post OP) mean?

pls don't tell me it means he cut his bollocks off

I second this motion.
I don't pay for your tatoos or piercings, I don't pays for your new penis.

allowing people to modify their body is not the question.
if i want to get plastic surgery to make my body anatomy like that of a dolphin it is entirely my right to do so

the problem is that just by modifying myself to look like a dolphin does not make me a dolphin,
nor does it mean that other people should treat me like a dolphin.
because no matter how good my plastic surgeon is, I will never be anything more than a mutilated human

What the fuck do you fucking mean you don't hear about it, people fucking complain about having to pay for other people's healthcare all the god damn time

And it's especially bad in this case because these people aren't doing for any actual health reason, they're literal narcissistic fucking perverts

YOU'RE a fucking meme, everything you say is fucking retarded, you either purposely deflect away from the central issue or are so fucking stupid you can't even get it straight in your own god damn head

why are you so fucking stupid?

it is degenerate you stupid fuck

This is what happens when you do squats the wrong way.

Here comes that baquette

Fuck you liberal cocksucker.

I can't get 3 grams of Test-E a week from my Doctor, let alone have it paid for by insurance perforce of law. So fuck these mentalists. Time to beat a few of them to death with an olympic bar before it's classed as hate crime.

> Define unnatural behaviour. While you're at it, you might as well read up on a fallacy called "appeal to nature".

There is no fallacy in "appeal to nature", despite some morons may consider it.

Natural is that, which is needed for specie survival. That, what brought us here through ages, and what only leads to a good future. All else are blind and evil paths.

Cathegorizing "appeal to nature" as a fallacy is a fallacy of unnatural crooks, who spoil humanity and try to make a norm of that.

> The overall mental health of transgender individuals

But our government and society overall does not overtly encourage obesity, smoking, alcoholism, or drug addiction. We have programs that encourage people to not be fat and to be healthy, have entire cities that do not allow smoking sections in private businesses, limit alcohol sales and punish those who act irresponsible with it, and discourage drug use through various means. These are just a handful of the methods used to discourage the above.

"Transitioning" is encouraged and funded with tax money. We have people claiming their 5 year olds are trans, giving pre-teens hormones, politicians and media glorifying the mental illnesses of those afflicted and of irresponsible parents who are forcing it on their kids to look "progressive" to those around them.

People like to argue that we don't understand enough about this to "cure them", (if they're not one of the people who call others "shit lords") so allowing them to transition is the best we have right now. Fine, if it causes such anguish to the person and none of our current methods have worked, let them transition. But stop glorifying it and encouraging it. We do not do this with any other illnesses, and I really do not see anyone trying to find any "cure".

Freedom is the root cause behind all degeneracy.
Freedom is not inherently good.
You do not have bodily autonomy if an action would have a high probability of self harm.
Modifying the body to conform with mental delusions is self harm.

...

Is there some special difference between "transgender" and other homosexual deviations ?

Most "transgenders" aren't even people with some sort cerebral anomaly... they're just the product of a degenerate society that says autogynephilia is ok and should be carried through until utter absurdity and insanity.

>Is there a rational argument against allowing a consenting adult to change their body as they wish?
Well I don't think we let crazy people stab, mutilate, or behead others just because they think they are Conner McCloud of the Clan McCloud. Why should we let the same kind of crazy cut, or mutilate themselves with the help of others? Others being the predators who only "help" to take money from a crazy person who can't deal with the reality of what they were born as?

Trans people are crazy people that need therapy, not surgery. I don't care how many years their therapists fail to make them accept reality. Trans people are not in their right mind to make legal decisions for themselves. That goes for the "catman" types as well as boy/girl trannies.