If she could perceive time non-linearly, why was she upset about the loss of her daughter...

If she could perceive time non-linearly, why was she upset about the loss of her daughter? Surely she could just hop to another moment where she's still alive?

For some reason my boss who's also a pastor broke down crying about that plotline for being anti-abortion. I really don't understand why he thought that was the point.

your mom is upset she lost a daughter

She doesn't get to travel through time, just see time non-linearly. She is aware of the future like we are of the past. She is sad because she has knowledge of her child's death, but chooses to enjoy her time with her kid while she can instead of dwell on the fatality of it, like the kid's father ends up doing.

I like that this film is basically an autism filter.

People with autism don't like it because its plot involves complex emotions they simply don't understand.

she was a scientists why wouldn't she just cure her of her aids or just wait another day for the dude to dump a load in her and have a different kid?

this

I also think about this too

She has no choice in the matter. It isn't a way of seeing the outcome of every choice she could possibly make, it's what will happen and always happen no matter what.

so if she never had sex again for the rest of her life she would still have a kid

It wasn't a choice. She would have sex again, she would have a kid, that kid would die. That is her story, she can't do anything to fight it or change it.

There's not really a choice. It will just happen. If part of her existence would be freaking out over having "no control" things would be no different.

Another person might have freaked out, but not her.

Was the point not that even if her kid had a short life, it was still worth experiencing.

Because this was a shit adaptation of an intelligent and nuanced story.

That was the point.

It was a BETTER and near-identical adaption wtf are you talking about. It hits all the same plot points, makes the same thematic statements and then some.

i dont understand, i have autism and i hated this film

The point was multiculturalism is good and anyone against it is a scared retard. No seriously.

The point is the humanism is good, more than embracing chinese opinions and cultural values.

Why would they need our help in 3000 years?

The aliens are the foreign culture

In one metaphor, but the metaphor that is arguably (is) stronger is that humanity would reap benefits from working together to achieve cool scifi concepts. If any kind of idea that does not involve isolating yourself implies "multiculturalism" to you, that's very dumb and tribal of u

exactly

but if the past and the future are the same to her, why would she be upset by her daughter's death? surely if the main character is perceiving all of time at once her daughter is equally alive and dead simultaneously?

Get back to space fucking squid

I still wonder how the kid felt about the whole thing. She seemed more like a tool for people to project their emotions onto than a person in her own right.

They just do

She's alive in one point in time, but is conscious of both times. It's not time travel, it's not that she's organically alive - it's perception, not reality hence why to perspectives can exist..... this is too much for your brain clearly.

>How did the kid feel about living a life like a kid, and then dying.
What is your question?

exactly what? i have autism and that movie was horrible, couldnt relate to any of the characters

I hope you find happiness in life, but please don't reproduce if it becomes a realistic opportunity for you.

Well, whether she wanted to know in advance of her exact date, time and cause of death or not, for a start. That sort of thing could fuck you up.

She is just a kid, and Luise didn't let her know that she might have that kind of knowledge. She wouldn't think to ask that question, or have a place to believe she even could ask that question and receive an answer.

what you mean have children? i have two a son and a daughter, they both have autism too like my wife. none of us enjoyed that movie the characters werent relatable, totally emotionless

this is kind of funny

I mean, it's pretty likely she does know about Louise's power given she's just written a whole book about how to do it and gotten famous for it.

i dont get it. I give my honest review of the movie and you mock me?

But if she knows the outcome how can she not change her story? She even makes an effort not to tell the guy until it's too late that their kid will die.

dude just turn your brain off lmao

She wrote a book about the language, and not the "power". The idea behind how she was granted her ability is something that isn't science fiction and is apart of linguistics; if you immerse yourself in any real life language, you will find yourself thinking in that language's words and grammar and lexical properties. You can learn Russian from reading a book on Russian, but you won't necessarily reach that point of critical immersion.

Louise wrote a book on Heptapod, but the story itself and the film give no indication that the effects of the language have transformed the perception of humanity completely and so it's reasonable to assume that few people reach the level of comprehension that she has, especially so since it's linguistic immersion taken to a new inhuman extreme. The Chinese guy at the end, by that point if her gift were well known, wouldn't have said "I do not know how you did it..." if non-linear perception were a public phenomenon.

There are no choices, she would have always waited for the same moment to tell her husband no matter how much back-and-forth she may have done in her mind. In the book, the author explains that all things that ever occur will and have already occured, but the moment when you actually live through the decision is only just realizing the moment. It will never change and can never change.

>it's a community who proudly declares itself better than the average "geek" fandom can't even understand non-linear storytelling episode

Movie didn't really explain this but if time is perceived as nonlinear then you also perceive all possible outcomes of every possible action you ever take. It would honestly be enough to turn any human demented from sheer realization of it all, so maybe she just rejects all other outcomes altogether in an effort to stay sane? Maybe that's why she decides to live her life the way it was planned.

arrival threads are pure cancer

9gag tier "discussion" of literal plot points and the logical order of the narrative

This is not what the movie or story is about. That's prescient vision ala Dune and Paul Muadib. This is just having knowledge of all events, not all possibilities.

The movie made it sound like she did have a choice but the love she felt for her future daughter made her choose to have her anyway.

She even says "Your part of something more powerful than he could ever understand" that being love.

Honestly tearing up thinking about it

this

Yeah, the mechanics of how the vision don't really matter, but if you wanna say what compelled or informed her path it would have been the concept of "love" that she felt was so strong having realized the child she would have with her husband. But I really love the sentiments about love and humanity in this film. I think it's fantastic.

"Dude narrative is all that matters and a single hole means the film is garbage lmao"- 9gag

Arrival is part of a recent series of movies I'd describe as Dunning-Kruger Sci-Fi. Along with Interstellar and to a somewhat lesser extent The Martian, they perfectly play to the crowd that fancies themselves as (and, to be fair, may truly be) smarter than average audiences but are not as smart as genuinely "smart people." They are movies designed to make the audience feel smart by introducing complicated and heady concepts, and then holding the viewer's hand the entire way through until there is next to nothing to be left up to interpretation.

If you didn't already know the twist in Arrival by the time she was in the milky section of the ship with the aliens AT LEAST, you perfectly fit the audience I am talking about.

There is no reward for being smart while viewing these movies because everything is eventually spelled out in big fridge magnet letters. Any clever idea is made so transparent that even the most simple in the audience will get it. It also removes any reward for rewatching or trying to figure out what you just saw.

Granted, there is a difference between Arrival and Interstellar. I think where Interstellar was pretending to have a brain it actually didn't have, Arrival has a brain that it is refusing to let the audience use.

Completely disappointing movie.

Also
>so that just happened

"Sup Forums is a community"- reddit outcast

Is this pasta from reddit or IMDB?

This pasta is so stale and debunked
It doesn't even say anything about the actual movie, just whining about the reddit overpraising audience which literally every critically acclaimed film gets.

almost responded to it, ty for letting me know.

because it still happened.

she can perceive it she can't change it

fucking OP

Notice how all criticism is about the power, the story or a line of dialogue or two. Because on an emotional and technical level its god tier.

>I-If you don't think this movie was deep then you have autismo xD

Wow so it was basically just subjective nonsense.

Why couldn't a super advanced alien race that simply communicate in a human language?

i eat retards like you with soy milk and a nice cup of coffee in the morning.

That's not what your mom said last night

>tfw too intelligent for linear communication of plebeian indigenous lifeforms

Big part of the movie is the humanity working together for the same goal, that's why there are 12 of them. If just one ship came with a message and simple instructions more than likely no one besides the goverment of that country would know about that information and Louise sure as fuck wouldn't be able to publish a single line about it.

And there is that part where the ayylmaos respond only to advanced equations and shit

The swedes will love this film

Why'd the one octopus alien have to die since they could have prevented that with their time warp language? Also it's not like they couldn't have gotten humanity to work together by other means. Also could the chink time warp talk too? That didn't make sense

Shit non-sensical plot.

There is no "time warp", they are only able to percieve the past, present and the future at the same time, not act on it. All decisions are interconnected, it's not like they see youtube video of the future and then continue on with their lives.

They just "remember" the future just like we remember our past in the form of memories.

What was the point of the bomb? Who did that? Why was it so effective on a clearly superior technology?

Was a bunch of scared, rogue military men concerned for their white families back home. There is no indication that the aliens couldn't be blown up or hurt either.

>no time warp
No shit. And she did act on it. That was the whole way she got China to not start blowing shit up you dumb fuck. Faggots like you that like this puesdo intellectual garbage are a cancer

Try Power Rangers (2017)

It was a bunch of privates, acting independently. Remember the scene with a private watching the livestream? Remember the scene of the private having a phone call with his terrified family?

this, obviously

>Wh-why love?

>What was the point of the bomb? Who did that?
Those few soldiers who listened to some tinfoil propaganda man on the television listened to his conspiracy that we have to attack the ayylmaos as soon as possible so they did that by themselves.
It was just a message how paranoia and conspiracy theories are dangerous while also serving as a tension plot device.

>Why was it so effective on a clearly superior technology?
Maybe the ayylmaos are not even familiar of that kind of danger, maybe they lived in total peace their whole life it doesn't matter really.
Don't assume that everyone who is more advanced than humans should have ultra durable explosion proof glass material.

>soy milk

ahaha

ahahhahahaha

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

>falling for the dairy meme

I missed those scenes cause I kept repeating to myself "This is Dunning Kruger Sci-Fi... This is memes..."

Why are reddit outcasts so mean?

Soy milk is delicious tho poor fag

>It was a BETTER and near-identical adaption wtf are you talking about.
What the fuck are YOU talking about? There was no ominous spooky overtones of the aliens' arrival along with there being no retarded geo-political, conspiracy theory thriller elements in the short story. Also whether she could actually see the future was left open to interpretation in the story while acknowledging the paradoxes arising from predestination and foreknowledge of future events. The movie on the other hand had the subtlety and intelligence of Forest Whitaker's character.

Soldiers who were scared of tv propaganda planted the bomb. You dont remember them watching the tv in the racks?

It wasnt effective on a clearly superior technology, the aliens saved amy adams life.

Were you asleep during the film?

yeah but then it makes it sound like she didn't mind how much her daughter suffered in the process as long as Louise herself got to feel love and experience life to the fullest etc. which seems kinda solipsistic

it is a better story AND hits every single mark the short story did. What was added does not contradict or weaken what was there originally. The entire point of the story was about non-linear perception, and there would be no way around the fact that she could see the future regardless if the story spells it out for you in the end. It is the same story with more and better.

Same with Interstellar desu.

this is the truth

What could they have done? She doesn't know the cure, or what causes it. The daughter lived a good life and was loved and, sadly, her story was brief. There was nothing to do, and no point in raging against it.

>it's same but also better because I say so and repeat myself
Maybe third time's the charm?

>not rage raging against the dying of the light

Call me autistic, but don't know what point you're trying to convey here. It's a better story, it does more, it does the same stuff and all they added only enhances the thematic points of the story and doesn't contradict anything.

You're not gonna convince me that I'm wrong here.

Projection is a hell of a drug

Who the hell would want this "gift" anyway? The whole point of living is the struggle, not the outcome. See an unstoppable future and slip into c'est-la-vie stoicism like infers and you remove the will to power, and are not truly alive. It's an affront to life itself.

Yes she acted but was not able to change those outcome of those acts. That's what I said about all her decisions being interconnected, what she does in the future is connected with every decision in the present because she experiences it at the same time.

>but don't know what point you're trying to convey here
That you're not making any arguments and just repeating yourself. How was it a better story? How did it delve into nonlinear perception better than the story where the traditonal ambiguity and broken narrative of the text allowed an interpretation that didn't rely on actual omniscience and time paradoxes? Not to mention the hamfisted clichéd message of kumbaya at the climax of an apparently highly emotional representation of a woman's relationship with her daughter and husband.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just telling you that the movie's story and the original short story are nearly the same with the additions of a few things that do not contradict the original content. That is enough.

I also don't really like the way you write so I feel like going any further than I have would only reveal that I am arguing on the internet with some douche who I wish I didn't encounter. You sound like a fag.

There would obviously be a lot to be sad about still. She will never see her grow up, never see what she could have become, never have grandkids, etc.

Underrated post

The philosophy behind the gift is something interesting.

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Villeneuve to maybe clear things up for you:
>"The idea is that the heptapods see life like a [scripted] play. They know what will happen, so they have the choice — either they do it bored to death, or they embrace it and try to be at their best, like an actor on a stage."

So it's about embracing death (instead of denying it like we do) as an essential part of life and appreciating every waking moment of our lives.

If you could see the future, you could probably diverge from it and change it for the better like she did with the chinese dude

She didn't change the future.
That is what would always happen. She only became aware that she would do that when YOU think she diverged and made a "change".

>change it for the better like she did with the chinese dude

She didn't "change" the future, that was the future from the start.
It's just that her future choices affect the present, there are no alternative choices.

Because it's the optimal choice, that choice couldn't have been made if she didn't have the ability

>2017
>people still can't grasp the idea of a bootstrap paradox

I get the existentialist part about accepting suffering as a fact of life, but I don't get how one is supposed to experience true joy without any of the pathos or tension that precedes it

Yes. Is this supposed to be a counter-point or something?